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New 'Prop. 187' falling short of signatures needed to appear on ballot
North County Times ^ | 04/01/2004 | EDWARD SIFUENTES

Posted on 04/01/2004 11:20:17 AM PST by Impeach98

New 'Prop. 187' falling short of signatures needed to appear on ballot

By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer

With less than a month to go, supporters of a controversial ballot initiative that would amend California's Constitution to deny most public benefits to illegal immigrants say they are nearly 200,000 signatures short of their goal.

The so-called Save Our State initiative needs 598,105 valid signatures by April 29 in order to be put on the November ballot. Because many signatures are usually invalidated, supporters must collect many more than are needed. Backers said they had about 405,000 signatures as of Saturday.

"No one is ever comfortable," said Ron Prince, a Tustin accountant who is leading the effort to qualify the measure. "Of course, if I don't have enough signatures, I'm concerned."

Supporters began their signature-gathering campaign in December. Prince said he had hoped to capture some of the momentum that began with the recall effort of former Democratic Gov. Gray Davis last year. But the initiative drive has relied largely on volunteers and on the Internet to collect the signatures.

"There was an appearance that people would get out in support and collect signatures," he said.

The proposed constitutional amendment would eliminate most public benefits for illegal immigrants, including health care for pregnant women, but the measure would exempt emergency medical care and primary education for children. It would also require state officials to report illegal immigrants to immigration authorities.

Unlike a similar initiative in 1994, called Proposition 187 which Prince helped author, the current campaign has received little public support from the Republican Party establishment. Then-Gov. Pete Wilson, a Republican, became closely associated with the anti-illegal immigrant proposition.

Earlier this week, Howard Kaloogian, a former Republican Assemblyman who lives in San Marcos, sent out an e-mail urging supporters of the current initiative to download petitions from the Internet and sign them.

"Please take a few moments this weekend and next week to help us collect the final signatures to qualify the 'Save 187' initiative," the e-mail read. "We have no major backing from big-money donors or the political establishment."

Kaloogian said he did not discount that the goal could be reached in the final days of the campaign. He said they have set April 15, which is also the deadline to file income tax forms, as a reminder to turn the final signatures in.

"It's typical that most of the signatures are collected during the last days," he said.

However, Gary Jacobson, a political science professor at UC San Diego, said collecting that many signatures with less than a month to go and no money could spell deep trouble. Moreover, signature gathering campaigns must collect at least 20 percent (or 120,000) more signatures than required in order to account for those that are likely to be invalidated, he said. State law requires ballot initiatives to garner valid signatures equal to 8 percent of the vote in the latest statewide election.

"If they are that far short, this late, with no funding, then it's urgent," Jacobson said. "It's harder to get publicity when you don't have big names. Howard Kaloogian doesn't get as many TV cameras pointed at him as Arnold Schwarzenegger would."

A similar effort was launched in 2000 but was unable to qualify for the ballot.

The Save Our State initiative is the latest version of Prop. 187, which passed in 1994 by garnering nearly 60 percent of the vote, but was ruled largely illegal by federal courts. Analysts say Wilson used popular anti-immigrant sentiment in his re-election campaign and alienated many Latino voters.

Federal welfare reform laws in 1996 eliminated federal benefits for illegal immigrants and prohibited states and local governments from providing public benefits, unless they enacted legislation to authorize it. California passed laws to provide prenatal care for pregnant illegal immigrant women and other health benefits under the state's Medi-Cal program.

Prince said he wants state welfare laws to be aligned with federal laws.

Under the proposed constitutional amendment, illegal immigrants would also be denied driver's licenses or state identification cards. And state officials would be required to verify the legal status of anyone applying for public contracts, food assistance, college education, unemployment, welfare, housing and other benefits. Anyone who fails to comply would be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Nativo Lopez, president of Hermandad Mexicana, a Latino rights organization that has opposed the initiative, said it was too early to cry victory. But he acknowledged that the Republican Party may be changing given the increasing Latino participation in the state's electorate.

"The Republican Party probably knows the electorate better than anybody," Lopez said. "They are not stupid. And they understand that to rise above being the minority party in the state means browning up the elephant."

Contact staff writer Edward Sifuentes at (760) 740-5426 or esifuentes@nctimes.com.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Announcements; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: 187; alien; california; howard; illegal; immigration; kaloogian; prince; propositon; ron; save
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1 posted on 04/01/2004 11:20:19 AM PST by Impeach98
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To: Impeach98
HELP! Save Prop 187 CLICK HERE for PETITION
2 posted on 04/01/2004 11:21:18 AM PST by Impeach98
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To: Impeach98
I've been doing my part gathering signature, although when this began, I was suspicious that it would come up short. I think the organizers of an effort like this should count on having to use paid gatherers for a big part of it, and start collecting money early on. And forget getting any support from Republican politicians or the party: they're scared to death of signing on to another 187, since they think it was the cause of the downfall of the party in CA.
3 posted on 04/01/2004 11:25:47 AM PST by John Jorsett
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To: Impeach98
Come on people - we can't let this initiative fail!

I read in the article above that we must "brown up the elephant" - and it struck me how successful the Left is in this state.

We're told we'll suffer political obscurity if we stand up for enforcement of our immigration laws. That it is apparently RACIST to deny lawbreakers your tax dollars.

Are you going to stand for that? Are we going to let the elitist of the political establishment in the state - that marriage of Democrats and RINOS - control our political destiny and bankrupt our state financially and morally for our children?

Let's get to it and GET THOSE SIGNATURES!!!

4 posted on 04/01/2004 11:27:53 AM PST by Impeach98
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To: John Jorsett
I've been collecting them too. We both need to collect more.

And yes, I wish they had raised funds for paid signature gatherers. Apparently they either couldn't (since the State and National GOP have told their donors not to support this effort) or chose not to try to raise money.

I'll presume it was the former, but I can't speak with any authority on it. I just know Kaloogian was motivated by the fact that this effort was being ignored by the GOP and felt that the conservative base needed to rally behind it.

5 posted on 04/01/2004 11:30:58 AM PST by Impeach98
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To: Impeach98
The URL has been sitting in my inbox at home for awhile. When I get home tonight I'll print it out and canvas the neighborhood. I did for the repeal of the drivers licenses I can do it for this too.

Allen In So Cal
6 posted on 04/01/2004 11:31:59 AM PST by Allen In Texas Hill Country
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To: RhoTheta
"Glad it's not in my neck of the woods (so far)" ping.
7 posted on 04/01/2004 11:45:19 AM PST by Egon (Yo, PETA: Salad = Food of my Food! Feel free to stumble into a pigpen, so I can eat you too!)
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To: Impeach98
It'd just be overturned by a handful of judges again anyway, right?
8 posted on 04/01/2004 11:45:19 AM PST by ErnBatavia (Gay marriage is for suckers...)
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To: Impeach98
"We have no major backing from big-money donors or the political establishment."

Unfortunately, the big-money donors and the political establishment is on the take because they "benefit" from Illegaliens. Corporations and companies won't endorse the proposition because they get "cheap labor" and those are the ones most likely to make sizable donations to political allies on the matter.

The political establishment is a whore after the big-money donors.
9 posted on 04/01/2004 11:49:23 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: Impeach98
"They are not stupid. And they understand that to rise above being the minority party in the state means browning up the elephant."

I think we're more likely to "elephant up the browns" - bad news for racist Latino activists who want to keep their people locked on the Democrat slave-labor strawberry farm.

10 posted on 04/01/2004 11:52:53 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Impeach98
bttt
11 posted on 04/01/2004 12:05:29 PM PST by hattend
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To: Impeach98
We've still got time. I know I am working on it!
12 posted on 04/01/2004 12:12:00 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: belmont_mark
Yep! And Ron Prince and Howard Kaloogian will have to step up the talk radio push even more. I know Ron was on John & Ken quite a bit already.
13 posted on 04/01/2004 1:23:50 PM PST by Impeach98
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To: ErnBatavia
The reason the court threw it out last time was because Davis the Dem was Governor and he was the one who was supposed to fight for it. If it passes this time, we'll have Arnold the Republican so everything will be different. HAHAHAHAHAHHA
14 posted on 04/01/2004 2:52:02 PM PST by evilsmoker
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To: Impeach98
Here's how to get enough signatures, and how you can help...

First, print out copies on your home computer. Then go to a copy shop, and make multiple copies of the petition form. The amount of copies depends upon the next step and how much effort you're willing to put in.

Next, take copies of the forms to every location likely to have a customer base that mirrors your views. That would include gun shops, VFWs, etc. Ask the owner if he would mind gathering signatures. The important part is that the registered voter who signs the form has to observe the signatures from the people.

Also, make sure you have separate forms for each county.

If you get the forms out to three stores, you're doing good.

Next, take a stack of the forms and go to Sam's Club, Costco or whatever business friendly warehouse store is in your area. Take along a folding table and a stool - don't bring a chair, people generally ignore people sitting down. If you want to raise your table to a comfortable height, use PVC pipe to extend the legs.

Since you're gathering signatures for a petition, the store can not tell you to go away. You have a legal right to be there and to get signatures.

Always ask people which county they are registered to vote in, and give them a clip board (or a piece of cardboard) with the petition attached and have them fill it out. Assume you'll be dealing with three signers at a time, and be prepared.

If there is a gun show in your area, bring MANY forms. You can always ask others if they're willing to help out, but remember, the signer who is listed as the petition gatherer has to observe the signatures, so if you switch off with someone, have separate forms for them to use.

I've pulled down a thousand signatures at a time using this type of method; it gets easier as you go along. Sure, you'll have people who disagree with you; don't engage them for long, encourage them to sign the form so that the debate can be public and part of the political process. After all, aren't they so sure of their position that they'll win in a landslide?

If that doesn't work, remind them that if an imitative goes down in flames, a similar initiative can't appear on the next ballot. Again, I've had remarkable success in getting people to sign using this method.

Anyway, good luck. Hopefully I'll have more signatures to turn in before April 15th.
15 posted on 04/01/2004 3:17:01 PM PST by kingu (Which would you bet on? Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Haiti and Kosovo?)
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To: Impeach98
I'm getting my petitions signed.

Are you? (Not you, Impeach98, I know you're good.. I mean everyone else reading this)

(Also circulating petitions for Ted Costa's new initiative to overhaul redistricting)

16 posted on 04/01/2004 3:23:14 PM PST by StoneColdGOP (McClintock - In Your Heart, You Know He's Right)
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To: Impeach98
BTTT
17 posted on 04/01/2004 9:52:04 PM PST by djreece
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To: Impeach98
I'm ready to go hang out at my local grocery store and get signatures.

Do you (or anyone here) know what the procedures are for that? Do you have to have their permission? Can I just hangout at Starbucks all day and get sigs?

Any links/reference to laws or rules would be greatly appreciated.
18 posted on 04/01/2004 10:40:47 PM PST by calcowgirl (Governor SchwarzRENEGGER - the ONE TERM-inator)
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To: kingu; Impeach98
Since you're gathering signatures for a petition, the store can not tell you to go away.

Thanks Kingu... I've been looking for that piece of info.

impeach98... I think I've got what I need, so ignore that last post (unless, of course, you have something to add). :-)

All... FYI, I posted the following last week... (pretty comprehensive Save187 info)

CA: Save our State - Drivers Licenses, Public Benefits and Heading off Amnesties

.

19 posted on 04/01/2004 10:53:48 PM PST by calcowgirl (Governor SchwarzRENEGGER - the ONE TERM-inator)
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To: StoneColdGOP
Also circulating petitions for Ted Costa's new initiative to overhaul redistricting

How is that going? Are those also due soon? I fell asleep last night trying to listen to Ted on radio (at midnight). I didn't catch the important part (although I did jot down the websites)

TedCosta.com
FairDistricts.com

20 posted on 04/01/2004 10:56:25 PM PST by calcowgirl (Governor SchwarzRENEGGER - the ONE TERM-inator)
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