Kerry Ignores Reproaches of Some Bishops

NYT via Drudge ^ | 04.11.04

[Non-Sequitur]

Mr. Kerry's decision to receive communion represented a challenge to several prominent Catholic bishops, who have become increasingly exasperated with politicians who are Catholic but who deviate from Catholic teaching.

The Church has taken the position that capital punishment is wrong. Will they refuse communion to those politicians who support it?

The Church has also taken the position that divorce is wrong. Will they also refuse communion to those politicians who support laws providing tax incentives for divorce or laws making divorce easily obtained?

[Aquinasfan]

independent of the state of mind of anyone present.

(The priest has to have the proper intention.)

Rules on Receiving the Eucharist

[secret garden]

Maybe he should try the Unitarians. They have a similar approach.

[dennisw]

John Kerry has always been a wise guy and a faker. A smart Alec. Disrespectful. He's just messing around with the Cath Church same as he has done to others.

[GraceCoolidge]

I think Post 22 clarifies this point.

[Aquinasfan]

Civil divorce laws and laws regarding capital punishment are matters of prudential judgement. Issues like abortion, homosexual marriage and experimentation on human embryos are intrinsic evils, the legalization of which is inexcusable under any circumstances.

[BlessedBeGod]

"I think there are many of us who would feel that there are certain restrictions that we might put on people" he said on the "Fox News Sunday" program. "But I think many of us would not like to use the Eucharist as part of the sanctions."

You should if they're in mortal sin, and a lot of them are definitely in mortal sin. You're a wuss.

[Aquinasfan]

He's just messing around with the Cath Church same as he has done to others.

So is Ted Kennedy, and a raft of others. I'm more angry with the bishops. Their silence must end.

[dennisw]

So is Ted Kennedy, and a raft of others. I'm more angry with the bishops. Their silence must end.

Amusing how Kerry tried to do a Kennedy by getting his marriage annulled. He was turned down flat and married Theresa anyway. Both are Catholic. I have no idea if theirs was a Catholic wedding.

Kennedy family has had enough juice to get a few marriages annulled but Kerry was denied! LOL!

[xsmommy]

thanks for posting the rules, very enlightening. Our priest yesterday specifically mentioned that only those Catholics properly disposed should present themselves for communion. no pro-abort Dem politicians present, but i have every faith that Father O'brien would have no problem refusing one of them, had they presented themselves.

[ought-six]

The article said: "In a television interview today, Cardinal McCarrick indicated that depriving a Catholic of communion would be a last resort that he, for one, would be reluctant to take."

What a load of crap! The Church forbids me from taking communion because my wife and I were married in a civil ceremony, not in a Church ceremony. It was the first and only mariage for either of us. We have been married 21 years. But because we were not married in the Church we are considered adulterers, and thus cannot receive the Eucharistic sacrament. But Kerry can support abortion, partial birth abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia; he can take the sacraments of non-Catholic faiths, and who knows what else; and the Cardinal basically says it's okay for Kerry to receive communion? Am I missing something?

[Mr. Thorne]

… disgusted, heretical bump for later e-mail.

[Diva]

Eventually, I understood that there was no shaking my Mother from her political beliefs. Total Democrat. Blind vote. Every time.

I've run into folks like this at my parish as well. They tend to be in their 60's and voted democratic all their adult lives. They are also devout!!! The excuse they use is that the media is lying. They simply will not listen.

[kittymyrib]

You are wrong on Martin Luther's and the Bible's teaching of the Sacrament of the Altar. Luther and Lutherans believe that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Jesus because He said so: "Take eat. This IS My body...Take drink. This IS My blood given and shed for you for the forgiveness of sins." This is the doctrine of the Real Presence and differentiates Lutherans from the Protestants who consider the bread and wine (usually grapejuice) as symbolic of His body and blood. The minister does not change bread and wine into the body and blood (transubstantiation), but Jesus declaring that it IS makes it so. And because it IS His body and blood, we must be penitent partakers because receiving it unworthily can damn instead of forgive.

[Non-Sequitur]

I think Post 22 clarifies this point.

So who came up with those 5 non-negotiable issues? The Pope? Biblical references? What?

[Non-Sequitur]

Civil divorce laws and laws regarding capital punishment are matters of prudential judgement. Issues like abortion, homosexual marriage and experimentation on human embryos are intrinsic evils, the legalization of which is inexcusable under any circumstances.

Jesus Christ specifically condemned divorce and it's merely 'a matter of prudential judgment.' He didn't say anything about abortion or homosexuality and you decide those are 'inexcusable under any circumstances'. So I guess you know more than Him? Or does the Gospel according to Aquinasfan take precedence over the Gospel of Mark?

[Desdemona]

Am I missing something?

Yeah. If your marriage was your first and only, you can get married in the church. You don't need to have the big ceremony, but you can still get married in the church. I've known people who've done it. Any priest who told you otherwise is lying, as I understand it. If there were objections to the vows of the marriage covenant, THAT would be a problem.

[Aquinasfan]

The laws regarding these issues are a matter of prudential judgement. For example, Aquinas said that in determining whether a vice should be criminalized, the amount of societal vice resulting from criminalization should be less than the original vice itself. Consider the matter of illegal drugs. Clearly, intoxication is a serious sin. But it can be argued that the criminalization of the possession of drugs can lead to a greater amount of vice in society (gang warfare, robberies to support an expensive habit, corruption of law enforcement, etc.)

Jesus condemned divorce. But laws regarding divorce beg the question of what determines a valid marriage. Civil marriage is not sacramental marriage, and is outside the strict jurisdiction of the Church. However, the Church has an interest in the health of society, and can therefore advise the State regarding the structure of family law. Law regarding homosexuals in general is analogous to the situation regarding drug laws.

[lsucat]

I cannot imagine my life without these two gifts from God. And I thank God, many times every day, that their biological mothers did not choose to commit the most horrific act I can think of.

Adoptive mother bump. I have Democrats in my family who refuse to hear the truth as well, and some of them are "devout" Catholics. I can't look at my three children and be anything but grateful to their birthmothers who made such a courageous choice. God bless you and your family.

[Aquinasfan]

The minister does not change bread and wine into the body and blood (transubstantiation), but Jesus declaring that it IS makes it so.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, Catholics believe that it is Christ, acting through the priest, who effects transubstantiation. This is true for all of the Sacraments,except for Holy Matrimony, where the couple effects the Sacrament.