Hemoglobin Ancestors Offer Clues to Earliest Oxygen-Based Life [blow to Intelligent Design]

NewsWise ^ | 20 April 2004 | Staff

[WhatsItAllAbout]

"Given what is currently known about biology, physics and chemistry, I'd say that it's not possible for such an entity to come about via evolution, or any other natural process."

I believe you are correct bio genesis/evolution doesn't seem possible through only natural processes. Which points to the possibility of Intelligent Design.
But regardless of how bio genesis may have started, we do have an intelligent designer in Man. If man/machine can alter the genetic code of our off spring what stops him from evolving into this hypothetical "GOD".

[Dimensio]

I believe you are correct bio genesis/evolution doesn't seem possible through only natural processes.

That isn't what I said. If you want to argue this, fine, but do not twist my statements to make a point.

If man/machine can alter the genetic code of our off spring what stops him from evolving into this hypothetical "GOD".

As I said, you first have to demonstrate that it is possible for such an entity to exist. Once you do that (and you've not yet done that), you then must demonstrate that this entity can hypothetically come about through mutation and natural selection.

[js1138]

It is not possible to avoid natural selection. Even if we could "intelligently" design humans with purple skin and gills, we cannot control all the environmental conditions that determine long term survival. Eventually natural selection will prevail.

[WhatsItAllAbout]

"I believe you are correct bio genesis/evolution doesn't seem possible through only natural processes."

"That isn't what I said. If you want to argue this, fine, but do not twist my statements to make a point."

Ouch, didn't mean to twist your words. So do I understand that you are saying that there is another mechanism besides natural processes involved?

"If man/machine can alter the genetic code of our off spring what stops him from evolving into this hypothetical "GOD"." "As I said, you first have to demonstrate that it is possible for such an entity to exist. Once you do that (and you've not yet done that), you then must demonstrate that this entity can hypothetically come about through mutation and natural selection."

The entity "man/machine" already exist, no proof needed. Lets ignore nature for the moment. The question is if Man controls his genetic future what limits are there on that future, what prevents him from attaining this "God Like" state of existence?

[Dimensio]

The question is if Man controls his genetic future what limits are there on that future, what prevents him from attaining this "God Like" state of existence?

What would allow Man to attain a "God Like" state of existence? You said that this "GOD"-Man would have power to operate outside of space-time. You've still not demonstrated that such a thing is possible.

[WhatsItAllAbout]

The question is if Man controls his genetic future what limits are there on that future, what prevents him from attaining this "God Like" state of existence?

What would allow Man to attain a "God Like" state of existence? You said that this "GOD"-Man would have power to operate outside of space-time. You've still not demonstrated that such a thing is possible.

And if I did demonstrated it you would probably be calling me "Sir WhatsItAllAbout".

So lets speculate about how a Man/Machine "cyborg" could for all intents and purposes exist outside our space time.

First just in raw awareness organic/electronic senses would give this cyborg the ability to sense things outside our "normal" "Matter Energy Space Time" universe.

And from this enhanced and augmented intelligence I would hope great discoveries and additional intellectual enhancements to flow.

And lets not forget Moore's Law which I think applies in this type of scenario. Once this cyborg gets started it might be very hard to stop.

[balrog666]

First just in raw awareness organic/electronic senses would give this cyborg the ability to sense things outside our "normal" "Matter Energy Space Time" universe.

Although the disingenuous "normal" is meaningless, it couldn't do anything we can't already do with our tools.

And lets not forget Moore's Law which I think applies in this type of scenario. Once this cyborg gets started it might be very hard to stop.

Google up on "The Singularity".

[Dimensio]

If it is a cyborg, then it has elements that are not biological in nature. Evolution could never cause such a thing to come into being.

[furball4paws]

Let me pose a simple question:

If there were no people would there still be a God?

(Please no kneejerk answers - think about the role man plays in the existence of God and the role God plays in the existence of man. This question is not designed to confuse anyone or the issue, just to stimulate thinking)

[PatrickHenry]

If there were no people would there still be a God?

Interesting question. Let us consider a lesser case -- gravity. Gravity shares some qualities with God. It's everywhere, and always has been (as far as it matters), it never dies, it needs no food, no sleep, it's always on duty (so to speak), it functions with perfect "justice," behaving the same for rich and poor, it's invisible, it's largely responsible for our existence, etc. I could go on, but you get the picture, such as it is. Now if there were no people, would there still be gravity?

I don't know. I certainly think so, but there's know why to check it out. My guess is that although we need gravity, gravity doesn't need us, and it would survive quite well in our absence. And with this as my model -- a very weak analogy to be sure -- I suggest that the same would apply to God.

[PatrickHenry]

I think the thread is dead. You might want to bring up your question in another thread, while it's still lively.

[SunkenCiv]

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[Keith in Iowa]

>>>So are liberals.

Libs are proof of evolution reduced to two words: Sh*t Happens.

[Beowulf9]

Just because a flower unfolds slowly doesn’t make it less of a beautiful flower.