Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[moondoggie]

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

[TankerKC]

Why is the signature of the Secretary of the Navy on my paperwork the same as on Kerry's?

Can you scan a document with the signature?

[stocksthatgoup]

Wonderful match..........Good work everyone.

[kabar]

Trust but verify.

[SC Swamp Fox]

He posted a unit citation (not Kerry's) to show what SecNav Chaffee's signature looked like.

I posted one of my unit citations later in the thread as an example of what SecNav John Lehman's signature looked like.

The signature on Kerry's Silver Star is John Lehman's. It has been explained on this thread that Kerry may have requested replacement copies of his citations in the 1980's which would explain why they were signed by Lehman.

[OldCorps]

I agree with you that Sen Kerry's military records, especially the awards, do not stand up to scrutiny. It appears to me that this man put himself in for awards and revised the record afterward. The Purple Hearts are particularly suspicious.

I wonder what various senators who really did serve honorably, like Bob Kerrey (former), Bob Dole, John McCain, Daniel Inoye, and John Warner (just to name a few) think about their collegue who very possibly manufactured his awards?

In the service, awards for valor are taken very seriously. Should it come out that Kerry's awards were given under suspicious circumstances...well, he'll be scorned as a dishonorable man.

[stylin19a]

I want to know why Kerry was given security clearance October 29, 1965. He was still in Yale.

[nopardons]

I think that ALL of us agree,that honorable service is NOT something to berate,no matter WHO it is;however, there seem to be some peculiarities,regarding Kerry's medals,that stink to high heaven.

I'm having a VERY hard time with Kerry's THREE Purple Hearts.I have always assumed that one had to have more than a minor scratch to get one.

And don't forget that Kerry,himself, BEFORE CONGRESS claimed that he and ALL Vietnam vets,had committed atrocities/WAR CRIMES.

[cookcounty]

" I notice that both Hyland and Lehman signed for the President for the Silver Star. "

And isn't that odd? Did I understand correctly that Hyland and Lehman did not serve concurrently? Aren't Hyland's dates 1968-1972 and Lehman became SecNav nine years later? If I'm mixed up about this, please correct me.

[mtntop3]

"We also have another mystery in addition to the Lehman signatures.

"Kerry has the following SILVER STAR certificate -- Signed by John H. Hyland, Pacific Fleet Commander and Then a SECOND certificate signed by Lehman.

"Find law has the following SILVER STAR certificate -- Signed by Elmo Zumalt, Vietnam Commander.

"While the event and date are the same These 2 Silver Star Certificates have DIFFERENT writeups."

This is so. The Hyland and Lehman (Slver Star) certificates use glowing language: the phrase "Extraordinary daring and personal courage.."(of Kerry)is used. But the Zumalt (Silver Star) certificate is markedly restrained and subdued in language relative to the other two; and it does not contain this phrase.

[prairiebreeze]

Thanks Mo1. Reading avidly, but not understanding much of it. Except that Kerry may have doctored his records....

Prairie

[Robert A Cook PE]

Nope!

These new citations were rewritten (and re-signed) years after the fact, not re-issued to replace originals - because there is NEVER a reason to change the official record.

Unless you're John Kerry and want your Vietnam history changed!
No, these citations WERE SPECIFICALLY REVISED to make them "sexier" -

There is NO "standard form" for a medal citation like this, because each is written EXPLICITY to honor one action that ONE person or one unit did. They become official documents, and reflect the historical record of the award.

Kerry worked very hard over a period of YEARS to get the Navy dept to REWRITE his awards apparently to make them "sexier" and to get them signed by ever higher and higher officials.

NOT to "replace the medals" - YOU DON'T "replace" citations!

EVER.

Do you go back now to 1927 and add a few homeruns and strikeouts to Ruth;s record, just because you want him to overtake Aaron?
You've said several times that he is merely "replacing" the medals - that is dead wrong! If the paper copy of a citation is lost, you can simply get a new copy! It is a COPY of the original record, and WILL NOT be changed from the original record.

Look, citations are the official record.

If you lose your wedding ring, do you get a new certificate? Nope. You go to the jewelers and get a new ring - and the jeweler doesn't ask to see a wedding certificate to check if it is "legitimate" wedding either! Replacing medals is that simple - besides, Kerry has said many times he has KEPT his original medals - they are in the middle of the shrine in his Senate office!

If your wedding certificate was lost, do you go back to the county clerk and get him to RETYPE and RE-STAMP and RE-SIGN the wedding certificate, changing the place you were wed at so it looks like you got married in a cathedral instead of the Justice of the Peace?

[jackbill]

Kerry was elected to the Senate in 1984, in the middle of John Lehman's term as Sec. of the Navy. Could it be that he bugged Lehman to get the medal? Even Sec. of the Navy listen to Senators.

[P-Marlowe]

Its either Lehman's signature or a forgery of Lehman's signature. It certainly isn't Chaffee's signature.

[BJungNan]

That is really, really interesting!

[rwfromkansas]

I zoomed in 400 percent on the Bronze Star citation on the Kerry website.

There is just no conceivable way you could make it say John Chafee.

It is a VERY clear L in the second name.

Why on Earth did Lehman sign this award for service a decade earlier?

[Robert A Cook PE]

Bingo.

Two different times, and two very different ranks and duties.

Hyland was "only" an admiral in charge of the entire Pacific Fleet.

Lehman was a civilian, in complete charge of everything as Secretary of the Navy.

...

We can't figure out WHY Kerry went back to the Secretary of the Navy fifteen years after the war was over and demanded that his own award re-written and "enhanced."

Tehn, 3o years after the war was over, why he went back to Clinton administration in year 2000 and even more records "enhanced."

Must be a botox-thing.

[Ramius]

Fair points, all.

[kabar]

You are correct. Apparently, Kerry must have requested new medals for what reason we do not know.

[rwfromkansas]

I am going to save it to my computer tonight.....and call the Kerry folks tomorrow to get their response.

[SC Swamp Fox]

Well stated.