Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[moondoggie]

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

[Bommer]

Understand that. It was a stamp, except Kerry's is stamped by the Secretary of the Navy.....under Ronald Reagan. Explain that?

[rwfromkansas]

And Zumwalt according to the Findlaw record. Supposedly he was not even in the position he signed the record for at the time Kerry got thte medal, but instead McCain's father or something.

I don't know if this is true though.

I do wonder why Zumwalt's certification is not on the Kerry website though...perhaps because it is way more muted and completely different.

[rwfromkansas]

I do not think they put up his record to try to say he didn't do anything, but to have dates recorded.

At least I hope so.

Because, as you say, Bush's record wasn't that impressive either.

[turbocat]

i just looked at that (Zumwalt's Silver Star paper) and you are right - it is entirely different - that's odd all by itself.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Kerry's Citation for his Silver Star medal has been written three times: each time by a different official.

The questions about signatures and signature machines merely verifies that Lehman did actually sign the Silver Star citation more than 15 years after Kerry left the service.

The last two revisions came YEARS after Kerry left Vietnam, left the service completely, and were changed by VERY high-ranking officials (Commander, Pacific Fleet and Secretary of the Navy).

There was NO REASON for the SAME CITATION to be revised three times after the war was over and Kerry had left the service.

Other than to make John Fking Kerry look better in his Senate Office building "medallic shrine" by scoring ever higher and higher ranking "signatures" on his wall.

---

Also found were official revisions (made in March 2001) to Kerry's official discharge records (his DD214 Form) adding FOUR MORE bronze "campaign stars" to his medal collection.

[Bommer]

And Zumwalt according to the Findlaw record. Supposedly he was not even in the position he signed the record for at the time Kerry got thte medal, but instead McCain's father or something. Whats funnier is that they have a clean clean copy on the findlaw web site. Silver Star signed by Zumwalt and Bronze signed by Lehman. Both Kerry's copies are stamped with OFFICIAL RECORD COPY. How did they get clean copys that aren't stamped?

[Vermonter]

"Those rapid fire 5s were pretty good too. "

Those would be the 5"54's. Our ship, commissioned at the end of WWII, had the 5"38's. Manual load twin barrel.

We had confirmed kills of hundreds of yards of tree line and a Water Buffalo :-}

red

[AnAmericanMother]

If you want to do battle, Bush vs. Kerry, military service is a poor choice of a battleground. My military service record is more impressive than the president's.

I disagree, here's why: Kerry has made "Did you know I was in Vietnam?" the centerpiece (and practically the only piece) of his campaign, other than bashing Bush every chance he gets. Even the WSJ has started making fun of the fact that he brings it up constantly - when he was down in LA last week, he compared it to the Mekong Delta.

He's fixated on his service in a creepy sort of way, too -- the home movies (imagine taking your dates home to show them a movie re-enactment of your "combat" adventures!), the medals, pix, etc. on his wall.

His military record is interesting because he himself has touted it. When dates don't add up, when papers are revised repeatedly to say completely different things, when his Fitrep comments are only marginally laudatory (in those days of "grade inflation") and he gets 4 less-than-top marks . . . it looks like he was a jerk and a ****bird who even then was (and still now is) revising and re-revising his record to make himself more politically viable.

Aside from the questionable fitness for CinC of any man so self-absorbed and dishonest, it's just creepy and sick . . .

Compare that to Bush, who was like most folks in those days, he did his time and got out - he hasn't spent the rest of his life reliving (and improving) his "glory days".

[J. L. Chamberlain]

Most folks enter the Navy as "reservists", thus the USNR designation. In the officer corps, only those ring bangers and a very select few docs going though OIC get USN designation.

Converting from USNR to USN is pretty hard. "Augmentation" is done by board review and not all that often.

I went through OCS with a guy who came from the fleet and lost his USN designation when he joined the officer corps. He got totally screwed and sent packing in the draw-down in '93.

J

[Ann Archy]

We also have another mystery in addition to the Lehman signatures. Kerry has the following SILVER STAR certificate -- Signed by John H. Hyland, Pacific Fleet Commander and Then a SECOND certificate signed by Lehman. Find law has the following SILVER STAR certificate -- Signed by Elmo Zumalt, Vietnam Commander. While the event and date are the same These 2 Silver Star Certificates have DIFFERENT writeups. 172 posted on 04/22/2004 6:26:35 PM PDT by commish

BUMP

[MJM59]

Didn't know about the home movies thing. That is pretty wierd. The problem I had with Bush not letting go of his military past was the flightsuit photo op. I can see wanting to put the flightsuit on and taking the controls for old times sake. But it was played up way too much for my taste.

In the end, all of the mud slinging gets old. I would like to see a series of debates between the two so we could get all this filler out of the way and get down to issues.

[Ann Archy]

Kerry threw OTHER'S medals over the wall...NOT HIS OWN!! He's a FRAUD!

[Ann Archy]

This is about Kerry "cleaning up" his citations and medal's papers. You don't see anything weird about this?? And maybe just a TAD suspicious??

[kabar]

You could also receive a regular commission through the NROTC scholarship program.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Only IF you receive a four-year scholarship. (That's how I got my USN commission.

ROTC-source officers get USNR commissions.

Kerry went through the OTC (90-day wonder course) in Newport, RI. Officer Training Center.

Newport ONLY gives you a USNR commission, an requires a previous college degree; which is how my brother got his commission.

In the Vietnam era, the USUAL promotion cycle was greatly shortened: Almost all of the time in the late 60's and 70's you got a Ltjg promotion promotion form ensign after one year, then got a Ltjg-LT promotion after 2-3 years.

That Kerry FINALLY got his LT promotion after he left active duty early at four years indicates he was NOT "promotable" ....

Thus (being rejected for promotion) perhaps causes his hatred of the military (particularly the Navy!) and might show WHY Kerry was so desperate to get his medals rewritten and his discharge papers re-written decades after everybody else has "left Vietnam behind."

[AnAmericanMother]

You can't ride in one of those birds without a flight suit - against safety regulations. That wasn't a case of not wanting to let go. And the pilot offered to let him take the controls -- I don't think that was planned. (Compare and contrast Kerry bragging to some poor ferry pilot about his "great ability" flying a Cessna. I was a Cessna jockey for years, and it ain't that hard! The darned things fly themselves.)

And the news media grabbed it because it was a great photo moment - they didn't start bad-mouthing it until after they'd played it for all it was worth.

Besides, he is the CinC.

[mtntop3]

"The questions about signatures and signature machines merely verifies that Lehman did actually sign the Silver Star citation more than 15 years after Kerry left the service.

"The last two revisions came YEARS after Kerry left Vietnam, left the service completely, and were changed by VERY high-ranking officials (Commander, Pacific Fleet and Secretary of the Navy).

"There was NO REASON for the SAME CITATION to be revised three times after the war was over and Kerry had left the service."

EXACTLY!!!

Reasons surely exist for the two additional write-ups for Kerry's Silver Star - each add-on at the end(s) being more laudatory and subtly changing the orginal in tone and tenor: Kerry "contributed" to the success of the mission in the Zumwalt original; but the implication in the later two versions is that Kerry, himself,was responsible for the success. The public should be told the reasons for these progressing enhancements. The reasons may be benign. However, to directly, or indirectly, bring about - or condone the bringing about of - these changes for enhancement of one's award/citation certificate would be a scandal.(To view the three versions, see Post #172).

[Howlin]

I've always been curious about this remark of Kerry's:

Referring to Bush's Iraq victory speech, Kerry cracked, "I know something about working with aircraft carriers for real. I think it takes more than having a very skilled Navy pilot land you on an aircraft carrier to make up for two and a half million jobs lost."

How would HE know anything at all about working on aircraft carriers.

[Howlin]

	THIS STORY HAS BEEN FORMATTED FOR EASY PRINTING

Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record

Ex-skipper says website wrong

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff  |  April 23, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Vietnam combat records posted on John F. Kerry's campaign website for the month of January 1969 as evidence of his service aboard swift boat No. 94 describe action that occurred before Kerry was skipper of that craft, according to the officer who said he commanded the boat at the time.

On the site, the Massachusetts senator is described as the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 during several actions in late January 1969.

However, Edward Peck, who was the skipper of the 94 before Kerry took over, said combat reports posted by the campaign for January 1969 involve action when he was the skipper, not Kerry. Peck, who was seriously wounded in fighting that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, said he believes Kerry campaign aides made a mistake in claiming Kerry as skipper of the 94 at that time.

On the Kerry website, the report of the combat on that day on the 94 boat is posted as occurring during Kerry's time as skipper of the boat. Peck said Kerry replaced him after the Jan. 29, 1969, event.

"Those are definitely mine," Peck said, referring to the combat reports that the Kerry campaign posted as representing Kerry's action. "There is no doubt about it."

A Kerry campaign spokesman, Michael Meehan, said in an e-mail that the campaign had obtained the combat reports for the 94 from the Navy. He did not directly address the question of why the campaign describes Kerry being skipper of the 94 at a time when Peck says he commanded the boat.

The reports at issue are in a 20-page batch representing Kerry's combat in January 1969. The reports include references to some dramatic action, including an ambush of Patrol Craft Fast, or PCF, 94. In addition to posting the information online, the campaign sent out an e-mail yesterday afternoon repeating the claim that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 boat throughout January and describing action the campaign said Kerry experienced while commanding the craft.

For example, in a summary of action that occurred Jan. 26, 1969, the campaign says Kerry served on boat No. 94 alongside another boat, No. 66. "PCFs 94 and 66 escorted troops up the Ong Doc River early in the morning when they were ambushed by gun and rocket fire from approximately 40 men on both sides of the river," the campaign summary says. "Two B-40 rounds hit close to Kerry's boat, while PCF 66 received 2 B-40 rocket hits. Three men on PCF66 were wounded. A junk containing South Vietnamese troops was also sunk, killing 11 South Vietnamese troops. Intelligence reports after the mission indicated that the Viet Cong troops may have planned the ambush in advance."

Peck said he was the skipper of the 94 at this time and that Kerry was not on the craft. While combat reports show several boats traveling with the 94, the campaign website says only that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 and does not try to place him on the other boats.

In another report, the campaign summarizes action that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, this way: "While Kerry's boat and another [PCF72] were probing a canal along the river, Kerry's boat came under heavy fire and was hit by a B-40 rocket in the cabin area. One member of Kerry's crew -- Forward Gunner David Alston -- suffered shrapnel wounds in his head. His injuries were not considered serious and he was sent to the 29th Evac Hospital at Binh Thuy."

Peck said he was the skipper on this day as well. Peck was also injured in the ambush and was hospitalized.

As a result, Kerry then took over the crew, Peck said. The Navy combat report posted by the Kerry campaign states that Peck and Alston were injured in the same event. There is no mention of Kerry in that report.

Kerry's commanding officer, George Elliott, said in a telephone interview that he vividly recalls Peck's injury and hospitalization and Kerry's replacement of Peck. "I think somebody made a mistake who doesn't know" the timing of Kerry's service, Elliott said. Kerry was skipper of boat No. 44 in December and January before taking over command of the 94, he said.

Michael Kranish can be reached by e-mail at kranish@globe.com.