Methodist Church Chooses Conservative Course on Homosexuality

Cheyenne Wyoming Tribune-Eagle ^ | 05-09-04 | Eastwood, Cara

[Theodore R.]

Methodist Church chooses conservative course on homosexuality

By Cara Eastwood rep4@wyomingnews.com Published in the Wyoming Tribune-Eagle

CHEYENNE - The United Methodist Church is going to be fine following the two-week General Council that concluded Friday in Pittsburgh, a local church official says.

The leader of Cheyenne's Grace United Methodist Church, the Rev. Jon Laughlin, said the Methodist church is "one of the most democratic structures - perhaps on Earth."

It is this democratic process he and other local pastors say will save the church from the fate that befell the Episcopal Church last year when an openly-gay bishop was confirmed in New Hampshire.

After the decision, some Episcopal congregations felt the church had moved in a direction they no longer identified with.

As the 1,000 delegates at the conference considered issues like human sexuality, many feared the Methodist church would embark on a liberal path that deviated from mainstream attitudes.

But instead of steering the church in a more liberal direction, the delegates aimed the 8.3-million members on a conservative course.

"It's been the conservative voice straight down the line," said the Rev. Janet Forbes of Cheyenne's First United Methodist Church, who attended the conference as a regional representative.

While the protests and debates surrounding the human sexuality discussion were not nearly as inflammatory as Forbes expected, she said that all attempts to honor the progressive opinions in the church failed.

The denomination's position on homosexuality - that it is incompatible with Christian teachings - essentially remained the same, Forbes said. An attempt to add a sentence saying that the church disagrees on the subject was defeated.

"The hurtful part for the conference was that with a vote of 55 percent to 45 percent, there was refusal to recognize that people of good faith disagree on the issue," she said. "Just a recognition that people disagree failed, and that was hard."

Although she was proud of the work done at the conference, Forbes said she felt disappointed that the church didn't acknowledge the variety of opinions on the subject of homosexuality.

"In my congregation, they thought that it was appropriate to admit that we differ in opinion," she said.

The conservative voices at the conference were so strong, Forbes said, that she and other regional delegates felt excluded due to the liberal reputation of the West.

"Western voices have all been stereotyped as far left wing and been marginalized at every vote. We've been punished by a stereotypical characterization of the West. I don't know whether it's because of the trial in Oregon or the perceived embarrassment to the conservatives, but I resent the stereotyping. We represent a diversity of views; clearly we're not all conservative, or progressive or liberal. We're part of the family."

Forbes cites accomplishments made this year in the church's dedication to the world AIDS crisis, to which it pledged $3 million and called for congregations to match with another $3 million. She also recognized legislation that enhances youth leadership and broadens ministries to young adults.

The Rev. Delbert Hansen of Faith United Methodist Church said this year's conference once again reassured him of the wisdom inherent in the church's legislative system.

"It's been a productive session, but are there hurt feelings? Yes. Are there people who are upset? Yes. But no one is celebrating the destruction of another point of view."

Hansen said the fair division of voting power between lay members and clergy will ensure that the church will stay intact, despite controversial issues.

"I've been in love with the Methodist church for 57 years, and it's frustrating at times. But it's so well-designed, it can't get screwed up," he said. "The church isn't going to divide and die, because it's more than the brick and mortar. It's about the connection of people and God."

His congregation in Cheyenne is far more concerned about the war than they are about homosexuality, Laughlin said.

"There's a war going on that's killing people, and this argument isn't," he said.

[tessalu]

The United Methodist church had a choice, to follow God, or to follow Satan, and some of them choose Satan and sexual perversion. It is just that simple, and I feel sorry for any one in that church who wants to follow Christ. They have been brought to shame.

[Askel5]

=== It is this democratic process he and other local pastors say will save the church from the fate that befell the Episcopal Church last year when an openly-gay bishop was confirmed in New Hampshire.


The Episcopalian move wasn't confirmed by some "democratic" process?

(If the Methodists accept the scheme of "voting on virtue," I see no reason homosexuality won't be voted in one day soon. Particularly given the percentages by which it lost this time around.)

[KC_for_Freedom]

Particularly given the percentages by which it lost this time around.)

Yes, and in pursuit of liberal causes they never give up. Too bad the concept of discrimination is not more appreciated in the nations religions. Methodists would not be happy to open their doors to people of all other beliefs, if those people came to alter the Methodist litergy. But that is exactly what has happened.

The plan is to first get rid of references to Father and gender terms of the diety. Then downplay the scripture references to homosexuality. Eventually homosexuals are admitted openly as full members, Then they are given a place in the clergy. (Naturally initially lesbian, since the negatives of the male homosexual are higher.) The process has no reason to ever stop, Male homosexual ministers, then homosexual programs in the youth fellowship, perhaps a little pedophilia should be tolerated. Who would argue that transgender restrooms would be welcomed by those individuals who like to eliminate their bodily waste with members of the other sex. I am too upset to go on. Please stay the course Methodists, then come over and help us reform Jews.

[joesbucks]

so the question is if these people confessed their orginal sins and professed their faith in Christ, even though they've followed Satan's path, are they still saved?

[DCBurgess58]

I quit the United Methodist Church years ago for their Liberal attitudes. The leadership of this Church was co-opted by the left a long time ago. My 74 year old Mom still belongs and is pretty much the common demographic of the membership that they have left.... older folks who don't really agree with all the lefty claptrap. They're like those Blue Dog Democrats in the south, Who keep voting Democrat, but don't agree with the direction that their party is heading. In this case I think they should be called "Blue Hair Methodists". This is clearly a dying church, as their core membership shrinks through death every year, and there is an insufficient amount of young people joining to replace them. I am pleased to hear that the "Blue Hairs" stood up to what was clearly an attempt by the Methodist clergy to promote a Pro Gay agenda. I found it quite amusing that the "This Church doesn't agree with this position" statement was shot down as well. Ultimately The Methodist clergy are trying to push a Pro Gay position through a World War II generation filter (Probably the greatest generation this country produced), and finding that true conviction and morals are not Liberal-flexable". As a final though I would like once again to thank the long suffering "Blue Hairs" for their stand, but question the value of belonging to a Church who's leadership does not respect the word of God.

[tricky_k_1972]

Read about the Confessing Movement in the U.M. Church. We have our own printing houses, our own seminaries and the vast majority of the churches. We will split if they try this or anything else that dilutes the doctrine. every time they try stuff like this in the national level it gets kicked out because they know they will loose.

Another site to check out is http://www.goodnewsmag.org/

Home page of the Confessing Movement http://www.confessingumc.org/

[KC_for_Freedom]

Thank you for the links, I see that a separation is coming. Like the gap that divides liberals and conservatives, both sides are set in their conviction. This is because of the hold liberals have over the children in school. Sad.

[tricky_k_1972]

Here is the article you’re referring to for the benefit of others with slow computers:

The Rev. Dr. Bill Hinson
President of the Confessing Movement

Address to UM Decision Breakfast, Pittsburgh
May 6, 2004
An Amicable and Just Separation

I have consulted with some of the members of my Confessing Movement steering committee, and they are in general agreement, but we have not taken a formal vote. I am speaking only for myself.

All of us have poignant moments when deep sadness sweeps over our souls. I recall as a young preacher when our church was the largest Protestant denomination in America, and at the time first began to lose members. I’ve always thought numbers were important because they represent people. Have you ever noticed that people who run numbers down never run them up? Mine is the last generation of United Methodists preachers who can remember when we were a growing movement. Trust has been broken, violated, disenfranchised. They say, “Seek autonomy.”

I believe that every Christian possesses a deep sense of joy. I remember the story of Bishop Arthur Moore who was riding a train across south Georgia on a hot summer’s day. His train pulled into a small station and from his open window he noticed an old man leaning his chair back against the wall, whose eyes were closed. The bishop calling out from the train inquired, “Friend, do the people around here enjoy their religion?” Without opening his eyes or moving a muscle, the old man responded to the bishop saying, “Them what has it do.”

I’ve felt another poignant moment of sadness on the morning I learned that Karen Dammann had been acquitted. For the first time in my life I wasn’t so eager to go out and face the world with the announcement that I’m a United Methodist pastor. Last Monday night when six of us met with fifteen persons who are of a different perspective, my sadness took on a new dimension. We took turns talking in that circle about the church and where we were coming from. At the end of more than two hours my feelings had coalesced to the point that I was fully persuaded we cannot bridge the gap separating us. I was and am profoundly saddened by that conviction.

Our friends in the Western Jurisdiction have left us. Our covenant is in shreds. And when I speak of covenant I’m not talking about the trust clause. I’m talking about a sacred trust that is much deeper and more binding. Through the years such a trust could be counted on to keep us faithful to what we have discussed, voted on, and placed into our Book of Discipline. All of that has now changed. More than that, our friends who have broken our covenant feel that they themselves are broken, because the votes of this Conference have largely gone against them, they feel disenfranchised, they feel we are doing spiritual violence to them, and have told us clearly that we are not truth tellers. In addition they are seeking autonomy from the larger body. They garnered more than 300 votes in an attempt to do things their way with regard to ordination in the Western Jurisdiction. Let’s set them and ourselves free to pursue our highest aspirations.

No sincere person can rejoice in another person’s pain. No one enjoys stepping on another person’s dream. Some playwright whose name I cannot recall told of the crossing of the Red Sea by the children of Israel. When the waters began to roll over the Egyptian chariots, and as they began to drown in the sea, Miriam and the children of Israel began to sing and dance because of their great victory. God however inquired, “How can you sing and dance when my children are drowning?” No earnest Christian enjoys seeing another human suffering. I believe it is time for us end this cycle of pain we are inflicting on each other. The thought of hurting another makes us sick. They hurt us defying the covenant, and we hurt them with our votes to uphold the Discipline every four years.

There is a great gulf fixed between those of us who are centered on Scripture and our friends who are of another persuasion. Repeatedly they have spoken of the need to get our church in step with our culture. We, on the other hand, have no desire to be the chaplain to an increasingly godless society. Rather, our desire is to be faithful to the Word of God.

I shall never forget the puzzled look on the face of a newscaster this past summer. He was covering the events leading up to the selection of an active homosexual as a bishop in the Episcopal Church. He asked one of the priests who had worked hardest to elect Gene Robinson, “How do you feel about what you are doing? This is the first time in recorded history that a mainline denomination has gone against the clear teaching of Scripture. How do you feel about that?” he asked. The priest responded, “I feel fine about that. You can’t be guided in the 21st century by an old book like the Bible.” The newscaster, obviously bewildered, asked then, “What is your ultimate authority if it is not the Bible?” The priest responded, “Our authority comes from the Holy Spirit working in community.” Now, at first glance, I thought, “How subjective can you get?” That means a group could meet down at the convention center and decide the Holy Spirit was leading them to be polygamous. However, as I reflected on his statement, I realized that the church was born out of the Holy Spirit working through community. That is precisely what happened at Pentecost. What is the difference? The difference is Simon Peter stood up immediately and announced that what was occurring was the fulfillment of Scripture and prophecy. What the prophet Joel had declared was becoming a reality. Then I understood. The Holy Spirit leads in the fulfillment of Scripture and in the illumination of Scripture. He never contradicts the Word of God. If you are being lead by a spirit to do something that is contrary to the Word of God, you must test the spirit, because it is clearly not the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit will never contradict Himself. The Holy Spirit always fulfills scripture, never contradicts it.

For many, truth is still evolving. They sincerely believe that the world has the wisdom we need and we should relativize the Bible so as to bring our thoughts into harmony with whatever the current worldly wisdom suggests. We on the other hand believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. And the grass withers, and the flowers fades, but the Word of God shall stand forever. We think that old military man Omar Bradley had it right when he said that, “We do not set our course by the light of every passing ship but by the stars.”

Let me confess that there is a deep yearning in my heart as strong as when I first began to preach to be caught up in the wave of God’s Spirit that is sweeping the earth, especially in the global south. Just this week I had dinner with two of the bishops from Africa to listen to them speak of the mission and ministry being accomplished in their areas. To hear them speak is to make the heart homesick for a place in the world revival.

I would not even tell my wife of my dream and conviction when I first began to preach in my 39-member church in South Georgia. I really thought a great revival would begin in that tiny church that would sweep through the community and eventually the nation and finally across the world. I thought God might use me to ignite that holy fire. Now my earnest desire is for my church, which exists to spread scriptural holiness across the earth, might be free to recapture our mission and refocus on the great commission to make disciples of all nations. I dream of men’s, women’s and youth’s movements grounded in the Great Commission. As Rose Simms stated, “It’s not that life is so short, it’s that eternity is so long.” There are people out there dying; and God wants to use us to share the Good News.

We cannot fight both church and culture. Our culture alone confronts us with more challenges than we can humanly speaking confront and challenge. That struggle, combined with the continuous struggle in the church, is more than we can bear. And our people, who have been faithful and patient, should not have to continue to endure our endless conflict. I believe the time has come when we must begin to explore an amicable and just separation that will free us both from our cycle of pain and conflict. Such a just separation will protect the property rights of churches and the pension rights of clergy. It will also free us to reclaim our high calling and to fulfill our mission in the world. Therefore, let us like Paul and Barnabas, agree to go our separate ways.

To respond to this article write: letters@goodnewsmag.org

[ahadams2]

the election of vicki gene was accomplished by stacking the deck in favor of him. There are some major differences between Methodism and the Anglican Communion as far as structure and polity go. More importantly as far as the UMC here in the US is concerned, is the fact that the majority of the UMC are still theological conservatives - a situation which no longer exists within ecusa.

[Askel5]

How tight are the bonds between ECUSA and the rest of the Anglican Church? (As one who deals with Rome v. AmChurch, I'm just curious.)

Episcopal and Anglican are the same thing? (I've never quite figured that out either.)

[Askel5]

=== The plan is to first get rid of references to Father and gender terms of the diety

Hear hear ... commandeering the language in which the "debate" will be framed is critical.

That's one reason I bristle when so many otherwise intelligent folk deform their speech out of some misguided notion of avoiding "offense" to what are actually their mortal enemies.

[plushaye]

Anglican=Episcopal. The US branch of the worldwide Anglican communion calls itself "The Episcopal Church of the USA" (ECUSA) but the other countries have branches which usually call themselves "The Anglican Church of __________".

Nearly all of the Anglican branches of the non-western world have condemned ECUSA and have either completely broken or impaired communion with it, due to the consecration of the openly gay bishop Robinson. The mother Church of England (CofE) is fence-sitting and trying to work out an unworkable compromise by the end of this year. What will probably happen is that the CofE will be forced to take sides or risk the majority of worldwide Anglicans leaving the Church of England completely. It looks like this is the year of the probable dissolution of the centuries-old worldwide Anglican communion.

[NRA2BFree]

"The hurtful part for the conference was that with a vote of 55 percent to 45 percent, there was refusal to recognize that people of good faith disagree on the issue," she said. "Just a recognition that people disagree failed, and that was hard."

Although she was proud of the work done at the conference, Forbes said she felt disappointed that the church didn't acknowledge the variety of opinions on the subject of homosexuality.

"In my congregation, they thought that it was appropriate to admit that we differ in opinion," she said.

It's unfortunate that there are "pastors" such as Forbes. ANYONE who would even consider condoning homosexuality is on their way to Hell. "Pastors" are going to be dealt with much more harshly because they are deceiving many people to Hell with them. Homosexuality is NOT open for discussion. It is perversion and God says it is an abomination to Him. Period! Those who chose this lifestyle will pay with eternal damnation for their souls. God isn't running a popularity contest and He really doesn't care what Ms. Forbes thinks. It's time that "pastors" quit sugar coating the Word of God and tell it like it is!!

[Prov3456]

Also noteworthy is the fact that most of the "Central Conference" delegates (ie. everyone outside of the USA) agree with the Confessing Movement/Good News theologically conservative and scriptural position. Those delegates, for the most part, voted to strengthen the "homosexuality" language, as well as other theologically-based issues.

Thank God for them!

[SauronOfMordor]

so the question is if these people confessed their orginal sins and professed their faith in Christ, even though they've followed Satan's path, are they still saved?

Step one is the firm decision to stop repeating the sin.

[joesbucks]

Step one is the firm decision to stop repeating the sin.

Agreed. However, there are those whose sin cannot or will not stop. The liar, the cheat, the thief, the gossiper. So how about those who follow Satan's path after a good effort to stop.

[joesbucks]

Is the lifestyle of a gay worse than the lifestyle of the liar, or the glutton, or the gossip?

[Theodore R.]

It's time that "pastors" quit sugar coating the Word of God and tell it like it is!!

I think many pastors fear to tell it like it is because their congregations may fire them if they speak the full truth. People in the last days can stand only so much truth. Many sinful congregations have sent men of God packing because the pastors followed Scripture, rather than the will of sinful man.

[Askel5]

Thanks very much for the clarification.