Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lynndie England: I Wasn't Ordered to Abuse Detainees
NewsMax ^ | 5-16-04

Posted on 05/16/2004 9:32:23 AM PDT by jmstein7

The female GI who is at the center of the storm over allegations of mistreatment at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison has told military investigators that she received no specific orders to abuse detainees.

A transcript of her May 5 military interview obtained by the New York Times shows England was asked, "Did anyone ever give specific orders of how to 'break' detainees?"

"No," England answered point blank. Instead she told probers that military intelligence merely encouraged them to keep doing whatever they were doing to soften prisoners up - "that we were doing a good job."

If true, England's admission suggests that the idea to use sexual humiliation to break Iraqi prisoners originated with the accused MPs - and not with higher-ups on site or at the Pentagon.

A lawyer for Specialist Charles Graner seemed to echo England's comments, telling the Times that the orders his client was following were usually general in nature.

"Most are not specific. Some are pretty clear. The exact wording, it's hard to say," attorney Gary Womack told the paper.

Neal Puckett, the lawyer for Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski who oversaw Abu Ghraib, said the testimony by England and others would complicate any legal defense attempting to pin blame on higher-ups.

"I think they are going to have a hard time demonstrating that they were instructed, that they were to specifically to strip these guys naked and pile them up on the floor," Puckett told the Times.

Court records of interviews with other suspects in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal show that military intelligence officers might have authorized interrogation tactics that included sleep and food deprivation and intimidation with muzzled dogs.

But the same witnesses said none of the orders sanctioned hitting Iraqi detainees, building naked pyramids or having them photographed while simulating sex acts.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: charlesgraner; iraqabuse; iraqipow; lyndieengland
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-80 next last
Think that's bad.  Go HERE.
1 posted on 05/16/2004 9:32:23 AM PDT by jmstein7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

Ok. But enough already. President Bush, get out there and remind the country that our real priority has to be in the field of battle, and that the leftists pushing this prisoner story will do nothing but consign the Iraqis to chaos and oppression. Enough defense.


2 posted on 05/16/2004 9:35:16 AM PDT by Williams
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

And yet the media and the whining liberals will still blame Rumsfeld and Bush for this.


3 posted on 05/16/2004 9:36:42 AM PDT by Blue Highway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

As the 'under oath' testimonies start surfacing from the trials, the dems/libs will be disappointed. I doubt they find much 'order' from anyone high up than those who were on 'late night duty.'

The half-dozen weren't ordered, just encouraged, by those who were present during the after hours, late nite event(s).

A male guard has essentially said the same thing--there were no 'orders' to do what they did.


4 posted on 05/16/2004 9:39:16 AM PDT by TomGuy (Clintonites have such good hind-sight because they had their heads up their hind-ends 8 years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
OK, so now the truth is starting to come out. I think there is going to be a serious backlash against the democrats on this one.

I don't really think they realize what is coming their way.

5 posted on 05/16/2004 9:39:57 AM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Williams

indeed, he better get on offense fast. Bush needs to realize quickly - if he wants a second term, forget about running against Kerry, its the media he has to take on.


6 posted on 05/16/2004 9:41:14 AM PDT by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999

all that have to do is ask Seymour Hersch to make up some additional stories - whatever they need, he'll say it. and if the white house doesn't take him on directly, the media will make it stand as the truth.


7 posted on 05/16/2004 9:42:48 AM PDT by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
has told military investigators that she received no specific orders to abuse detainees.

Just did it on her own. Freelancing you know!

8 posted on 05/16/2004 9:44:26 AM PDT by jslade (People who are easily offended, OFFEND ME!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jslade

Englund is so hot i think i want her to terrorize me





not


9 posted on 05/16/2004 9:45:43 AM PDT by al baby (Hope I don't get into trouble for this)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: oceanview

It would be nice to get Seymour Hersch and George Soros to take a ride in a Ford Pinto.


10 posted on 05/16/2004 9:47:08 AM PDT by tbpiper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

The CRY of LEFTISTS everywhere. "IT IS NOT MY FAULT!!" ......... "I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY OWN ACTIONS!!!"


11 posted on 05/16/2004 9:48:21 AM PDT by PISANO (NEVER FORGET 911 !!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
military intelligence merely encouraged them to keep doing whatever they were doing to soften prisoners up - "that we were doing a good job.

The only problem would be with the MI not asking what was being done to achieve the "good job." If this statement from her is accurate, that is.

12 posted on 05/16/2004 9:49:10 AM PDT by Ruth A.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
I've been substitute teaching while I search for a new job. Students who misbehave go to RAC, (Really Angry Children??) or ISS, (In School Suspension). I'm not surprised that these "children" at Abu Grahib misbehaved for lack of proper supervision.

I was Subbing at Garland High School when the poop hit the fan re the gang fight between Garland and South Garland High. The news made it to Fox News and the O'Reilly Factor because the gangstas' had video taped and then posted the mayhem on an Internet Website. When Tony Snow was told this, (he was sitting in for O'Reilly) he said, "What was the web site? GangsRUS?

We're at war and those Dombocrats better back off! They're politicizing this issue while ignoring the 911 families.

13 posted on 05/16/2004 9:49:36 AM PDT by Young Werther
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Williams

I'm starting to get angry with the President. Not for the alleged abuse, but for not vigorously pointing out what is obvious to us--that a little humiliation is not torture, and that a wearing women's panties on one's head would be far preferable than losing that same head by some clumsy and inept beheader. If the President doesn't start fighting back (and not with these mild denials), much more is lost than just the next election. If Kerry is elected, I have no doubt whatever that it will mean the end of our free country.


14 posted on 05/16/2004 9:57:19 AM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999

Backlash? I hope so, but I also have my doubts. If the truth turns out to be different, the media will scarcely report it. Most will likely continue on in ignorance mode, believing that Rumsfield (if not the President himself) ordered horrible things done. Many probably still believe the faked pictures were genuine because few will report that they were obtained from a porn site. Such is the state of this sorry media.


15 posted on 05/16/2004 10:01:23 AM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: MizSterious

I think Bush needs to get back on the offensive about this. Most people now see it was much adoo about nothing. I was at Physical Therapy last week, and they have a TV with Fox on. Everything there doing PT was fussing about why the media was making such a big deal about this. I was surprised that so many were complaining considering it was a pretty diverse group both culturally and socially economic wise. I think it is time for another Bush press conference. I wonder if Bush is waiting until some of the court martials are compeleted before speaking out much?


16 posted on 05/16/2004 10:02:10 AM PDT by gswilder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
"Most are not specific. Some are pretty clear. The exact wording, it's hard to say," attorney Gary Womack told the paper.
What the MI op said to clerk-typist England: Hey, Specialist. Tomorrow we plan to interrogate Ahmed the Abominable in cell block four. Please direct the sargeant of the guard to ensure he is fed and showered and prepared to move by, say, about 10.00AM.

What specialist England heard: Hey, babe. Strip a whole bunch of Iraqi men naked, put bags over their heads, and then mock them as they diddle themselves. Be sure to have group sex with your MP comrades in front of them. They'll love it.

It's all a matter of interpretation.
17 posted on 05/16/2004 10:06:28 AM PDT by Asclepius (protectionists would outsource our dignity and prosperity in return for illusory job security)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
Good post. The truth is slowing dribbling out.
I'm glad English is coming clean!
18 posted on 05/16/2004 10:27:08 AM PDT by Smartass ( BUSH & CHENEY IN 2004 - Si vis pacem, para bellum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

bumpo for later reference


19 posted on 05/16/2004 10:30:16 AM PDT by Khurkris (Ranger On...revenge, grudge, payback...call it what you will. The knives are comin' out.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lepton

bookmark bump


20 posted on 05/16/2004 10:33:43 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PISANO
The CRY of LEFTISTS everywhere. "IT IS NOT MY FAULT!!" ......... "I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY OWN ACTIONS!!!"

That must be why the Left is making Lynndie England their poster child.

21 posted on 05/16/2004 10:34:26 AM PDT by highlander_UW (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
Instead she told probers that military intelligence merely encouraged them to keep doing whatever they were doing to soften prisoners up

How does this absolve the military of responsibility? Shouldn't they know exactly what the guards are doing? And why is there a photo of the interrogaters watching the pyramid of naked Iraqis, and yet, they say they didn't know what was going on? Those photos were staged photos. They weren't "candid camera." Who wanted them staged?

22 posted on 05/16/2004 10:35:32 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Smartass
I'm glad English is coming clean!

I don't think she's coming clean, wasn't this from May 7th, which was before she's made the recent statements about being ordered? It smells of some slimy lawyers getting her to deny, deny, deny...and shift the blame.

(note, not all lawyers (and would be lawyers) are slimy, present company excepted)

23 posted on 05/16/2004 10:37:09 AM PDT by highlander_UW (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: tbpiper

Seymour Hersch

Soon to be renamed Seemore Butts.


25 posted on 05/16/2004 10:43:50 AM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: GraniteStateConservative

And why is there a photo of the interrogaters watching the pyramid of naked Iraqis, and yet, they say they didn't know what was going on?

That guy was MI? I have never seen that pointed out in any news stories I have seen. Please tell me where is your source on this?


26 posted on 05/16/2004 10:47:20 AM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

Sounds to me like "Don't ask, don't tell." Why are the libs all hot and bothered about it.


27 posted on 05/16/2004 10:48:29 AM PDT by AZLiberty (Of course, you realize this means war! -- Bugs Bunny, borrowing from Groucho Marx)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 30-06 Springfield

Ping


28 posted on 05/16/2004 10:52:30 AM PDT by SLB ("We must lay before Him what is in us, not what ought to be in us." C. S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999
OK, so now the truth is starting to come out. I think there is going to be a serious backlash against the democrats on this one.

I hope so, especially after Kennedy likened the US Military to Saddam Hussein.

29 posted on 05/16/2004 10:54:07 AM PDT by alnick (Mrs. Heinz-Kerry's husband wants teh-rayz-ah your taxes.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: GraniteStateConservative

How do you know that they were interrogators? I watched the Cal Thomas interview last night on Fox with Florida democrat Senator Bill Nelson. Nelson said that one of the photos provided for the Senators special viewing there were soldiers that had been cropped out on the photo that has been widely shown. The widely shown photos most likely came from those who want to shift blame away from the MPs. Nelson in typical democrat fashion wants the world to believe that President Bush is responsible for the “torture” of the prisoners and concludes that these cropped out soldiers warranted further investigation into involvement of higher ups. Frankly I was disappointed that Thomas did not ask him who he thought those cropped out soldiers might be but for some reason he let the matter drop. Other Senators have said that the same faces keep appearing in the Senate photos inferring that the MPs are the only ones involved. And now you have the admissions of MPs that they were only ones involved.

It seems to me that England is looking at jail time and lying to the military about being ordered by higher ups certainly will not be very helpful, to say the least.


30 posted on 05/16/2004 11:01:53 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SLB
Nasty people like England and Ganer can rationalize anything. Ganer knows ALL ABOUT PRISONS and what abuse you can get away with. I believe this group VOLUNTEERED for night duty so we kinda need to find ALL the "common threads" for these derelicts.

Regardless, Kapinski has been around a long time. She should be able to "smell the air" and know what's up. The fact that "it was her policy", to do away with saluting officers, that "it was her policy" to visit each prison "AT LEAST ONCE IN A THREE MONTH PERIOD", speaks volumes.

31 posted on 05/16/2004 11:03:52 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

bump


32 posted on 05/16/2004 11:07:57 AM PDT by Taffini (Simone is French. She hates everything.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: highlander_UW
I got my info from an article in Newsmax.com.
Click on the link.
English
33 posted on 05/16/2004 11:18:37 AM PDT by Smartass ( BUSH & CHENEY IN 2004 - Si vis pacem, para bellum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: jslade
Just did it on her own. Freelancing you know!

As a matter of fact, that is exactly what this group did.

As General Taguba put it, they "acted on their own volition".

BTW, Taguba's testimony and report turn out to be 180 degrees opposite of how the dems and media were portraying it.

What a shock! (not)

34 posted on 05/16/2004 11:47:13 AM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7
The attorney's name is Guy Womack, not Gary Womack. He is not exactly an upstanding citizen either.

******

In the Quadro case, the defense had called to the stand Guy Womack, an assistant U.S. attorney in the southern district of Texas, and a Quadro distributor. The day he was to testify, the prosecution informed Womack that he was under investigation for his role as a Quadro salesman. On the stand, instead of singing the praises of the product, Womack took the Fifth 42 times and clammed up.

The government is charging Quadro and its salesmen with fraud. That implies a culpable attempt to fool people. Surely, you'd think that the Quadro(" Tracker units have been designed to locate people from a photograph, as well as from a fingerprint. Thus missing prisoners, or escaped prisoners can be located with ease. The machine will identify an individual, no matter what disguise or surgery is undertaken. It has been tested over a distance of 500 miles, and will track, we believe, at any distance." ) guys knew that the device was useless.

In late January, 1997, Guy Lee Womack, an Assistant U.S. Attorney, resigned his office and agreed to pay a $5,000 civil fine. Womack confessed that he used his office to promote the Quadro Tracker®, a bogus drug and weapon detecting device. He paid $13,600 for distribution rights in Alabama, Arkansas, New Mexico and Wyoming and hosted meetings with investigators in Houston to show how the device worked.

The men were indicted on August 21, 1996 for deceiving customers into buying what they knew was a worthless device. Prosecutors claimed that the Quadro Tracker® was just a radio antenna attached to a hollow plastic box containing "chips" constructed of paper and plastic. The device was sold primarily to law enforcement agencies and school districts.

Guy Womack, Attorney At Law

U.S. Department of Justice, Assistant United States Attorney, 1990 - 1997

35 posted on 05/16/2004 11:49:08 AM PDT by kcvl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Smartass
I'm not questioning you, I'm just pointing out that since she made these statements she's contradicted them on TV. The lack of credibility in my eyes is hers, not yours.
36 posted on 05/16/2004 11:51:53 AM PDT by highlander_UW (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: highlander_UW

She's so gonna end up in porno.

(shiver)


37 posted on 05/16/2004 11:52:57 AM PDT by JellyJam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: highlander_UW
I know. The whole mess is getting foggy. English first
speaking on her own, and then through family, and now
spinning through an attorney, is a bit mind boggling.
38 posted on 05/16/2004 12:14:29 PM PDT by Smartass ( BUSH & CHENEY IN 2004 - Si vis pacem, para bellum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: MizSterious

"I'm starting to get angry with the President. Not for the alleged abuse, but for not vigorously pointing out what is obvious to us"

Uhh... OK.


39 posted on 05/16/2004 12:32:47 PM PDT by BillyCrockett
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: GraniteStateConservative
How does this absolve the military of responsibility?

Well, those of us actually following the facts of this story know that the supervisors and brigade commander are in fact being held to account for their negligence.

That still does not make these perverts on parade as acting according to policy. They were not.

40 posted on 05/16/2004 12:33:58 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: LoudRepublicangirl; GraniteStateConservative
General Taguba reported that *low-level* intelligence types were involved and he found no evidence of any orders or policy being employed with the perverts.

The idiotic media cannot follow from point to point, or they don't wish to, so they took the Graner's defense attorney's spin and ignored the facts assembled to date for context.

41 posted on 05/16/2004 12:37:12 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

42 posted on 05/16/2004 12:38:06 PM PDT by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MizSterious

"I'm starting to get angry with the President. Not for the alleged abuse, but for not vigorously pointing out what is obvious to us--that a little humiliation is not torture, and that a wearing women's panties on one's head would be far preferable than losing that same head by some clumsy and inept beheader. If the President doesn't start fighting back (and not with these mild denials), much more is lost than just the next election. If Kerry is elected, I have no doubt whatever that it will mean the end of our free country."

FWIW, Secty of State Powell has made comments and demands of Arab leaders to show balance and condemn the killing of Nick Berg...

The fact is, the media would have a field day if Bush or Rummy tried to downplay it. They would (falsely) talk of a coverup. In these matters IT IS UP TO WE THE PEOPLE TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THE BIASED MEDIA!

It is time, past time, to send sharply worded letters to editors on this matter, accusing them of abject bias,
telling them that the oil-for-food corruption and billion dollar bribes is a real scandal, media fake photo reporting is the real scandal, etc.


43 posted on 05/16/2004 12:41:10 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: JellyJam
She's so gonna end up in porno.

From what they've said about some of the video portions that weren't released, she already has.

44 posted on 05/16/2004 1:00:58 PM PDT by highlander_UW (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

Which major presidential candidate once said this? But of course, John F. Kerry on Meet The Press, 18 April 1971
45 posted on 05/16/2004 1:09:55 PM PDT by CounterCounterCulture (Remember, name and town, name and town, if you wish to opine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Thud

ping


46 posted on 05/16/2004 1:28:22 PM PDT by Dark Wing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Smartass
The whole mess is getting foggy. English first speaking on her own, and then through family, and now spinning through an attorney,

Lynndie England is not "now" speaking through an attorney. There were no less than five attorneys purporting to be representing her last week. Four appeared on the tube Monday night, though they all noted they had not met or spoken to her yet, they had talking points assembled. The fifth man I saw on LKL two nights later.

Bizarre (yet obvious).

47 posted on 05/16/2004 1:30:08 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Sounds like take a number and get line. From what I have
read, she might be positioning for a plea bargain!
Although, military law differs from civilian civil and
criminal law.
48 posted on 05/16/2004 1:57:59 PM PDT by Smartass ( BUSH & CHENEY IN 2004 - Si vis pacem, para bellum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: jmstein7

When all is said and done with this story, I belive the root of this evil will fall at the feet of one pathological, redneck prison guard.


49 posted on 05/16/2004 2:10:46 PM PDT by Beckwith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TomGuy

They weren't ordered, but who told them they were "doing a good job"? Do you suppose it was BG Karpinski?


50 posted on 05/16/2004 2:17:14 PM PDT by arasina (So there.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-80 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson