The Fermi Paradox - Are We Alone in the Universe

[Joe Hadenuf]

If conditions are ideal on earth for the development of one intelligent species, why haven't two species developed? A strong conclusion would be that we are unique.

Make that,

There can only be one human species, and there are plenty of other types of species on this planet, literally thousands, some that do have a limited degree of intelligence.

[ThirdMate]

Such as the Neanderthals? But they were something of a subspecies.

Besides, there was plenty of opportunity for a completely different intelligent species to develop in the Americas before contact with Homo-Sapiens.

[ThirdMate]

Let me clarify what I mean by an intelligent species. By intelligent species I mean one which is capable of making and using tools and communicating abstract thought.

That I believe is the condition of intelligence posited in the article.

rgds,
3/M

[roadcat]

That's the Borg - they aren't here yet.

But they are. There's a possible political explanation for the Fermi Paradox. Every intelligent civilization has their bad eggs, who go on to push an inhibiting culture on the masses and cause extinction before a viable space traveling civilization can take root. On Earth, that inhibiting culture is Islam. They ain't just on Earth, folks, resistance is futile...

[Joe Hadenuf]

Let me clarify what I mean by an intelligent species. By intelligent species I mean one which is capable of making and using tools and communicating abstract thought.

Actually there have been some instances where species on this planet have used tools, chimps and crows, however primitive.

As a matter of fact, we just saw on the discovery channel a week or so ago this crow literally bent a wire to use to stick down inside of bottle to hook food inside of the bottle. We watched in total shock. Again, very primitive, however the bird did make the tool and used it to successfully obtain the food to our total surprise. I understood crows were very intelligent, but this was a real eye opener to say the least.

[Graymatter]

Wow, Fermi asked a good question. I have trouble answering my kid's questions. Example: if a lot of water is aqua-blue colored, and snow is water, why is snow white and not blue?

[ZULU]

Thanks.

Are you really a radioastronomer?

[ThirdMate]

Okay, but do you expect the crow to colonize the universe?

[Joe Hadenuf]

Okay, but do you expect the crow to colonize the universe?

LOL, maybe in several millions years, who knows. The point is there are other intelligent species on this planet besides humans, however very primitive. I for one, put my bet on life outside of earth, both intelligent and non intelligent, and I feel the universe is far to vast for anyone on this planet to say the chances of intelligent life out there are small, if at all. Just because we have no proof at this point, means little, IMO.

[edwin hubble]

"Planets With the Right Conditions are Rare
Planetary systems are rare
Habitable zones, proper distance from star for liquid water, are narrow
Galaxy is a dangerous place (gamma-ray bursters, asteroid impacts, etc)
Earth/Moon system is unique (large tides needed for molecular evolution)
Life Is Rare
Life's Genesis is rare
Intelligence/Tool-Making is rare
Language is unique to humans
Technology/Science is not inevitable "


Here are two more:

1. Early microbial plant life gave off oxygen as a product of photosynthesis.
This eventually formed ozone in the upper atmosphere.
This, over a billion years or so, prevented the otherwise certain disassociation of water in the vapor phase in the upper atmosphere.
Without this ozone (from early life) all water would now be gone from the Earth's system.

2. Tectonic plate motion on the Earth
Among terrestrial planets only Earth has the constant slow motion of the mantle. (although Venus has volcanoes and activity we don't fully understand).
Theories hold that tectonic plate motions give us recirculation of metal elements - necessary for a technology-using civilization.

[Conservomax]

Are you arguing with the article's worth or that of the paradox which many of the world's top physicists have wrestled with for over 50 years?

[AndrewC]

Because of the distances and energies involved. The Fermi Paradox is pure codswallop IMHO.

I take it then that you don't believe humankind can ever explore another solar system. (because if we can then it is a process of time and reproduction etc....)

[Joe Hadenuf]

Because of the distances and energies involved. The Fermi Paradox is pure codswallop IMHO.

I concur.

[Dimensio]

What about Al Gore?

Terrestrial robot.

What about Kerry?

Terrestrial zombie.

[RadioAstronomer]

technological stagnation

Indeed. This is just one more reason that the Fermi Paradox is flawed.

[RadioAstronomer]

I'll throw out another theory, FWIW. What if it's exceedingly difficult for societies to organize on a large scale over an extended period of time? For a galaxy-spanning civilization, this would be a requirement for large-scale interstellar colonization.

Agreed. However, IMHO the distances alone will prevent an interstellar civilization.

Consider our own planet, we create extra-national organizations such as the UN and it becomes corrupted and ineffective. We've even tried international efforts on space projects and we have a clunky sinkhole of money in LEO that will never be completed as it was originally intended.

Agree also. Big sigh here. (And I even worked on the Space Station)

I haven't seen evidence that we're capable of mounting an expedition much past Mars. To think that we could not only colonize our own star system and then reach out on a large and continuous scale to propagate throughout the galaxy using a supranational organization (UN on steroids) is laughable.

I don't even seeing us going back to the moon any time soon, much less Mars or beyond. :-(

Maybe the best that could be attempted would be sporadic probes of a few nearby star systems, probably robotic, that would do a quick flyby or a temporary orbital surveillance of other star systems. It would be small scale, extremely rare, and very unlikely we would ever notice such a probe, even if it passed by during an age of technical sophistication of the target star system.

Would take lifetimes. Can a probe last this long? We have quite a time getting our probes just to the edge of our own solar system.

[RadioAstronomer]

Besides, those who wonder should check out the theory of Directed Panspermia - a realistic solution, but it begs the question of the initial source for galactic life.

I just don't see that either. Evolution and Biogenesis are the best theories we have to date for life arising and diversifying on our planet.

[RadioAstronomer]

I'm a bit perplexed why the writer would have included Drake in the article. Sort of made me think...wtf??

The only thing I can think of is that the Drake Equation has a correlation to the Fermi Paradox by estimating the number of tool building species out there. However, the reciprocal does not exist IMHO. No matter what the Drake Equation estimates, it will not bolster the Fermi Paradox.

I am doing well, but extremely busy. Sigh! (eats into my freeping! LOL)

[RadioAstronomer]

Observation contradicts that conclusion. So ... where are they?

Separated by time and distance if they exist.

[RadioAstronomer]

Are you really a radioastronomer?

I have worked in that field, however, what I do for a living now is spacecraft/satellite engineering, design, control, and operations.