The Neoconservative Persuasion

Weekly Standard ^ | 2003 | Irving Kristol

[CWOJackson]

Good night. You won't get any action on Chamberlainbuff from me...but I'm sure it will be at some time, as you suggest, when he's fairly comfortable that his many fans have retired.

See you later.

[AlbionGirl]

No, I haven't. I know of it's existence is about all. However, I really like to read ex-Marine MacGrubin (sp?) in NRO online, and he reviewed the whole rotting thing back in February or March, just around the time Kerry was securing his primary wins. MacGrubin basically said, alright Kerry, name the baby and women killers.

I know from Kerry's whole demeanor that he would love for Pres. Bush's team to allude to his lack of patriotism based on his post-war activities. Not because he plans on defending them, but because he thinks he can deflect the issue and cause it to have a boomerang effect on Bush. Max Cleland seems absolutely possessed with the same thoughts and plans.

These guys think that criticizing their support of certain policies that may or may not pertain to military matters is verboten, and they equate that to a grave insult to their Military service. They're almost school-boy like in defense of that belief.

It's astounding that people who have seen battle could be so easily knocked off their game.

[MEG33]

The majority of swift boat commanders who were in the same unit, they all went together on the river , say he is unfit to be CIC.

[CWOJackson]

For your information. This is from the POW/MIA Family Members Against John Kerry:

John Kerry abandoned our husbands, sons, fathers, and brothers in favor of trade and normalization of relations with Vietnam. His actions paved the way for the further abandonment of POWs and MIAs from World War II, the Korean War, and the Cold War.

John Kerry, as chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, ordered the destruction of committee documents, blocked avenues of investigation, and misrepresented progress on the POW/MIA issue to justify lifting of the trade embargo against Vietnam.

There is quite a controversy over some of the records and information he ordered destroyed, and with no public explanation. It's not just the living who dispise him.

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

Father... and son.

Quote from Irving Kristol: "Ever since I can remember, I've been a neo-something: a neo-Marxist, a neo-Trotskyist, a neo-liberal, a neo-conservative; in religion a neo-orthodox even while I was a neo-Trotskyist and a neo-Marxist. I'm going to end up a neo- that's all, neo dash nothing."

[AlbionGirl]

I have conflicting feelings on the Vietnam trade thing. I mean what were we supposed to do, refuse to lift the embargo? Would that have given us what we needed to recover our own?

We bombed and napalmed their Country but good, and left millions dead in the wake, that isn't something to easily dismiss, or not try to make amends for. It is not in our American nature to do that. My parents can testify to that, following the end of WW II in Italy. My Mom still waxes enthusiastically about American flour, butter and cheese flowing freely. Should we have tried to cripple Vietnam even more by refusing to lift the embargo?

There's a stinky part to the MIA thing though that maybe you're referencing. An ex-Marine (I think) by the name of Smally, Smiley, something like that who headed up an MIA rescue mission seemed to get the backhand of McCain and maybe even Kerry. I was never able to make head nor tails of that whole thing though because Mr. Smalley or whatever his name is seemed really off to me.

[CWOJackson]

I never really objected to opening trade with Vietnam; the average Vietnamese is a pretty decent person. Folks who opposed lifting the sanctions often forgot all the people in the south who were swallowed by the Communists. Many, not all for sure but many, of those people fought and died along side us.

The problem POW/MIA families have are some of the documents, particularly from ongoing investigations, that were destroyed at Kerry's command.

There is pretty good evidence that we were close on getting at some of our people who were still being held prisoner even then...all destroyed without public oversight.

[AlbionGirl]

Up until a few years ago I worked for a small electronics firm that made sound gear, effects boxes, synthesizers, etc. Anyway, many of the Techs who worked there were from Laos (sp?).

Several of the guys there who were around my age (born in '56) swam the Mekong in the dead of the night to escape conscription. According to them, conscription consisted of someone coming to your house, putting a rifle in your hand and telling you to fight or die. These boys were only 14, 15 years old at the time.

They escaped to Taiwan and eventually relocated here in the US. One of the guys hadn't seen his Mom in close to 30 years, and returned to Laos in '99 for the first time since his Mekong swim. His life story was the stuff of legend; a hearty people, that's for sure.

[CWOJackson]

My barber is a woman who came over as a child during the fall of the south. Her husband has his own janitorial service. They, and their children, work their tales off six days a week.

A lot of their money goes back to Vietnam, where other members of their extended family can build homes and get ahead a bit.

I admire then a great deal.

[nopardons]

It's not just in old movies...it's from actual reporting,from inside Germany,at that time.But history not being your mietre,I try to use something,anything,I imagine you may be more conversant with.Unfortunately,you never are.

Jefferson said he wouldn't pay tribute,sent in what is now our Marines,but in the end,yes,he did "pay tribute",as did his successor.Do please look into this.

When Washington was president,the Atlantic Ocean was seen as a pretty good barrier,though not a perfect one.We fought the English,to get our independence,were helped by the French,though they were also viewed as our enemies,and the Hessians(Germans) fought on the side of the Brits,as did Irish.As a new nation,composed of colonists from all of those nations,it really was in our best interests to stay out of centuries old fights between European nations.

This is a far cry from that time period.Far too much has happened,for Americans to even slightly consider isolationism as an option.If the isolationists of the '40s had had their way,neither of us would be alive to post to FR,most probably...or we would be doing so in German or Japanese.

My quotations marks upset you,but your dearth of historical and cultural knowledge doesn't bother you? Interesting,that. LOL

[nopardons]

Yep,Ronald Reagan never lost his unbridled admiration for FDR. :-)

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[asmith92008]

Never suggested military isolationism. I'm all for killing whatever yahoo needs killing in order to keep our nation safe. In the same vein, I don't think giving jet technology to a regime like China enhances our national security. My point is simply that increasing Boeing's bottom line does not automatically equate with increasing our national security.

As to my "dearth of historical and cultural knowledge," I'm fine with the fact that I don;t turn to Col. Klink or Rick's casino as my history lessons. Thus, I know that showing one's papers was a hallmark of many regimes, not just Germany.

[nopardons]

Have you any idea just HOE boring you are?

Either go back to the thread's topic,or talk to yourself.

[asmith92008]

Wow. Losing my dialog with you. Somehow, I'll manage. Good luck and Godspeed to you.

[nopardons]

This wasn't a dialog...it was the high-jacking of a thread,by you,which has been ennui enducing.

I hope you find someone else to talk to.

[churchillbuff]

Self-delusion is a sign of of an inability to cope with reality.

I think you're too hard on CWOJack. He isn't being self-deluding. He knows he's liberal. But he's trying to delude everybody else, by keeping his policy views (on everything except the Middle East) well hidden. He rants about Iraq, but not a peep about any issue of traditional concern for conservatives - abortion, taxes, immigration, environmental quackery, guns. Obviously, like a liberal, he doesn't care about these issues - - or he holds very liberal positions on them, and doesn't want the rest of us to know. I'm not deluded, and I suspect many others aren't, either.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"This is the second such thread trying to define neo-con. The other boiled down to anyone who doesn't support the defeatist position on the war in Iraq is a neo-con."

That is the accepted term. Neocon, sounding strangely familiar to the villainous words, "neonazi" and "con artist", is a word, whether hijacked or not, to mean, "supporting an amazing military achievement". It's a very ugly and sinister-sounding word, typically used by cocktail conservatives, who could also be called "no-cons", or "no account cons", "don quioti cons", or "con artist wannabes". It reminds me of how an unborn child is called a "fetus".

[iconoclast]

code word for JOOZ

Nothing to with JOOZ, it's their VIEWS.

[MEG33]

The day you check in on a thread announcing we have captured a terror leader or broken up a terror cell and rejoice , the day you praise one good thing about progress in Iraq, I will believe you care about America's well being.

In the meantime you try to create discord between those of us who support the war and hold conservative values...very troll like IMHO. You are gleeful about bad news and that is a very disturbing pattern.

May God bless America and help us deter and defeat our enemies..