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All that is not permitted is forbidden

Posted on 06/02/2004 11:31:34 AM PDT by CFW

What is the origin of this phrase?
All that is not permitted is forbidden

It is the foundation for our proposed local zoning code.
Can anyone give me some history, it seems very familiar.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: forbidden; landuse; permitted; zoning
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To: oblomov; CFW

I've seen it credited to Mussolini.


21 posted on 06/02/2004 11:47:16 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: CFW

Our local zoning uses that logic when they wish to condemn a property. They go through and find every not permitted item and list ever violation. Ie did not pull a permit for a ceiling fan, light, doorway, plumbing fixture, toilet out of date etc.

Cities also use permiting as reasons to jack up property tax valuations.

I am in the camp which somehow remembers this from Orwell.


22 posted on 06/02/2004 11:57:54 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: CFW
All that is desirable will be mandatory, all that is undesirable will be prohibited.

I always thought it was H L Menken.

23 posted on 06/02/2004 12:00:09 PM PDT by FoxPro (jroehl2@yahoo.com)
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To: CFW
Actually it comes from Calvin:

"The Reformed principle is that the acceptable way of worshipping God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his revealed will that he may not be worshipped in any other way than that prescribed in the Holy Scripture, that what is not commanded is forbidden. This is in contrast with the view that what is not forbidden is permitted." Collected Writings, I.167-68.

The alternative was held by Arminius.

24 posted on 06/02/2004 12:01:39 PM PDT by yatros from flatwater
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To: CFW
"All that is not permitted is forbidden"

Could be from this outdated and ignored relic from the pre-New Deal era--

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

25 posted on 06/02/2004 12:02:17 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: CFW

http://users.aol.com/kenjenks/personal/quotes.htm

ASCAN (Astronaut Candidate) 10 COMMANDMENTS


26 posted on 06/02/2004 12:05:50 PM PDT by FoxPro (jroehl2@yahoo.com)
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To: CFW

All which is not mandatory is hereby declared forbidden.

George Orwell



27 posted on 06/02/2004 12:11:32 PM PDT by siunevada
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To: Ken H
Could be from this outdated and ignored relic from the pre-New Deal era--

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Aha! The 10th Amendment from the Bill of Rights. I thought we'd done away with that one. It's certain that we've not followed to limit the ever-expanding Federal Government since, at least, the New Deal, as you say.

My old man, a lawyer, said that it was the very tenuous logic of enforcing the 14th, 15th, and 16th Amendments (freeing the Slaves and then guaranteeing their Civil Rights) that utterly destroyed the last vestiges of States Rights.

28 posted on 06/02/2004 12:28:42 PM PDT by DJtex
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To: norwaypinesavage

You missed one:

The Italian Model: All is permitted, especially that which is forbidden.


29 posted on 06/02/2004 12:34:25 PM PDT by blau993 (Labs for love; .357 for Security.)
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To: yatros from flatwater

Calvin is the context in which I've heard it used as well. The Puritans used it to develop their doctrine of the regulative principle of worship.


30 posted on 06/02/2004 12:37:59 PM PDT by aardvark1 (You can't have everything...where would you put it? --Steven Wright)
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To: siunevada
All which is not mandatory is hereby declared forbidden.

George Orwell

Exactly. It's got nothing to do with "permission." Things are either forbidden or mandatory.

We know we are still a free society here cause you can make a right on red. Or not. It is still up to your own option. No matter what the people behind you think, it is not mandatory to turn right on red. It's just annoying not to.

SD

31 posted on 06/02/2004 12:38:03 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: CFW

The oldest reference I know of is from The Once and Future king. Young King Arthur is transformed into an ant. The ant colony has a motto posted that says "ALL THAT IS NOT MANDATORY IS FORBIDDEN".


32 posted on 06/02/2004 12:39:25 PM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: CFW

It means that anything that is not specifically granted a permit through the application process is forbidden so you'll have neat prohibited things like replacing your hot water heater without a permit (which is about the same as the cost of the heater here in CC County, CA and which I, of course, had recently replaced without said permit)...


33 posted on 06/02/2004 12:39:56 PM PDT by Axenolith
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To: js1138

Trying to google this, I find a dozen alternate phrases. Obviously not all of them can be correct quotes.

Posts number 6 and 24 are interesting.


34 posted on 06/02/2004 12:45:39 PM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: CFW

I don't know if this was its first use, but in "The Once and Future King" by E.B. White (a book about King Arthur), Merlin transforms young Arthur into an ant. On entering the ant colony, Arthur reads a sign posted for all ants to read stating "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."


35 posted on 06/02/2004 12:45:59 PM PDT by ops33
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To: CFW

I think it's from some sort of agreement that anyone who would date one Hillary Rodham had to sign before she would go out with her.


36 posted on 06/02/2004 1:02:39 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: CFW

There is a Chassidic version:

vos men tor nit, tor men nit, un vos men meg darf men nit.

"What is forbidden, is forbidden, and what is allowed is not necessary."


37 posted on 06/02/2004 1:02:56 PM PDT by blurb
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To: ops33
Arthur reads a sign posted for all ants to read stating "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."

I've been trying to get this straight from memory. Google is no help. Everyone has a different version. Your version is the way I remember it, but it makes no sense. There is no way to forbid everything that needs to be forbidden. Perhaps that's the joke.

38 posted on 06/02/2004 1:08:27 PM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: CFW
Ayn Rand, Anthem: "Since the council does not know of this hole, there can be no law permitting to enter. And everything which is not permitted by law is forbidden."

I don't know if she originated it.

39 posted on 06/02/2004 1:13:10 PM PDT by Argh
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To: blau993
Das Modell Barvarian: Alles ist ausgenommen während fashing Jahreszeit verboten.

The Barvarian Model: All is forbidden, except during Fashing Season.

40 posted on 06/02/2004 1:23:29 PM PDT by FreedomFarmer (If you're gonna be a bear, BE A GRIZZLY!)
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