Why Jews Welcome Muslims

Mamzelle,

Thanks for the ping. I'm not sure how comfortable I am speaking on behalf of other Jews, and certainly on behalf of liberal Jews, on this point because people have only become aware of conservative Christian support for Israel in the government since the late 1990s. That's after the time I left my hometown and lost my connections with the people I knew and who I reference.

I would guess that Jews do not count on conservative support for Israel or take it for granted. They are wary and do not wish to embrace it too strongly precisely because they do not want to seeem indebted to someone who they might disagree with otherwise, about their own salvation or about prayer in schools or other issues. I think that the pro-Israel movement led by people like our President is viewed more like a tiger that one may have to ride but always fear. Becaust most Jews are really uneasy around conservatives who are up front about their faith.

Please excuse the extremely tardy response to your post, but would you believe I've just come upon it while delving deep into my archives?

I'm simply restricting myself to what is within my rights as a human being. It is God's prerogative to punish idolaters, not man's. He never assigned that role to us with regards to non-Jews, to the best of my knowledge. So if He wishes to punish them, He will, in His own way and time.

Man has not rights not given by HaShem, and the Torah is HaShem's Ultimate and Perfect Word. Though the Halakhic criteria are indeed much more strict than in secular law, an idolator is to be given the death penalty (G-d Himself takes the execution into His own Hands if the court cannot Halakhically execute the sentence even though the individual is guilty; otherwise it is a sin not to carry out the execution). In addition to this there is the `ir haniddachat (the occasion when an entire city must be destroyed and never rebuilt because a majority of its citizens strayed after idolatry), and the various wars (both milchamot mitzvah and milchamot reshut) in which an entire nation (including woman, children, and animals) are to be put to death. And while this is pure speculation on my part, it could be that the cheirem declaration elevates the offender to a state of such holiness that he is "too holy to live" and could be said to be a human sacrifice of sorts.

Furthermore, you do not understand the absolute compunction of Fundamentalist chr*stians to missionize every human being on the face of the earth. They aren't merely advertising a product such as the "virtues" of their religion but (in their view) trying to get the members of a community contaminated by a deadly disease to receive the only cure in existence. They don't understand religion as being primarily an "ethnocultural heritage" of some sort. All mankind caught a "disease" from Adam that leads to the inevitable eternal damnation of every single individual human being unless each individual takes advantage of G-d's one and only solution--the vicarious damnation of a divine scapegoat in his place. Obviously people with such a view of reality cannot compromise on their belief that they are bound to missionize every single individual (whether or not the missionized individuals accept this "cure" is of course up to them, not the missionaries). This may startle you, but why should it? Religion is serious. It's about ultimate things. It isn't a game. It isn't ethnoculture. It's about G-d's Truth, and so long as these people believe what they believe they cannot stop missionizing everyone, and you cannot in good conscience ask them to stop. You would in effect be asking them to disobey what they sincerely believe is G-d's direct order to missionize everyone. How could you do that?

These people will do what they believe G-d has instructed them to do until they no longer believe that G-d has actually so instructed. This is why all calls for chr*stians to "update" their beliefs, to liberalize, to modernize, are totally in vain (and cruel besides). Many Jews seem who are horrified at the idea of Judaism "telling non-Jews what to believe" in the sense of proselytization seem to have no compunctions about putting on the pressure for chr*stians to alter their own beliefs. Any Jew who can proselytize Fundamentalist chr*stians on behalf of liberal chr*stianity (what is this bizarre attraction to that particular disease, anyway?) can darn well proselytize Fundamentalist chr*stians to become Fundamentalist Noachides instead.

A friendly reminder: you have mentioned your family's experience in Hungary. I just wish to remind you that most Fundamentalist Protestants meet Judaism directly in the Bible, and Judaism in the Bible is not nearly so "tolerant" or "modern" or "enlightened" or "ecumenical." Thus they do not understand or appreciate how the insular and protective attituded built up over the post-Biblical centuries have hardened. Most even Orthodox Jews do not seem to get this very important point. I am no Qara'ite, but I must go on record on saying that the Judaism of the Book of Joshua is more definitive and more normative than any attitudes built up during an encounter with chr*stianity during the past twenty centuries.

I'd like to see the scriptural reference on which the claim that Moses was charged with converting non-Jews. I'll admit I've never heard of such a thing, and would be most interested to examine the evidence.

I have a copy of the "Classics of Western Spirituality" edition of Israel and Humanity by Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh, translated by Maxwell Luria. The passage in question is located on page 19 of the Translator's Preface, as follows:

Moreover, Moses, our teacher, was commanded by God to compel all the commandments enjoined upon the descendants of Noah. Anyone who does not accept them is put to death. He who does accept them is invariably styled a resident alien (ger toshav]. . . . A heathen who accepts the commandments is a "righteous heathen," and will have a portion in the world to come, provided that he accepts them and performs them because the Holy One, blessed be He, commanded them in the Law and made known through Moses, our teacher, that the observance thereof had been enjoined upon the descendants of Noah even before the Law had been given. But if his observance thereof is based upon a reasoned conclusion, he is not deemed a resident alien, or one of the pious of the Gentiles, but one of their wise men.

The source cited for this quote is RaMBa"M in Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Melakhim 8. 10-11.

It's very late and I'm very tired, and I apologize for any mistypes in this post, particulary in my transcription of the passage in question.

Orthodox Jews are friends of America and our Christian Heritage. Secular Jews are our real enemies. They destroy everything that is good in a society (in any society, including Israel). Behind the destruction of each of America's moral landmarks there will be a secular Jew lurking somewhere.

I'm just explaining the perception. Jews in the US have a lot more contact with evangelicals than Muslims, and therefore many perceive the problem of evangelicals to be more acute.

Me, I'm a philo-Christian Jew who is trying to forge a solid alliance. But evangelicals turn the contact between the two groups into an adversarial situation, and force Jews into a position of having to defend their faith against conversion attempts.

Pretty interesting how the same accusation in return would be called "hate" speech, after all perception is ones reality.

But Jews do not evangelize.

"But Jews do not evangelize."

Not all Christians do either, and "IF" the evangelizing Christians read correctly, they would know they do not "save" and that ones very thoughts are known by the Heavenly Father. So this "in your face" saving business could be called mocking Him.

Now on the other end of the pendulum are some Jews who in their religious secular beliefs seek to remove the "freedom" inherent within Christianity and unfortunately these evangelizing Christians ignore what the political is willing to take from them as Christ would say those sitting in the seat of Moses.

Furthermore, interesting point is that it is Written what both sides would be doing, and Paul (who was a student of the OLD, knew it as well as anyone in his day) gave a huge clue,

ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: (examples), and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

This being the case, the script has already been Written and the drama is unfolding upon the world stage.