Posted on 07/29/2004 5:24:30 PM PDT by wk4bush2004
TAIPEI: Taiwan’s president, struggling to convince parliament of the need for expensive new weaponry, said on Thursday that new submarines were essential for the island to defend itself from China.
In an elaborate public relations exercise, President Chen Shui-bian took a group of journalists out on the navy’s ‘Sea Tiger’, a Dutch-built Sword Dragon-class submarine, off southern Taiwan to carry out routine drills. “Submarines would be the best weaponry to defend Taiwan from attack... as they are able to launch a blitz and easy to hide,” Chen told reporters after wrapping up the unprecedented exercise.
Separately, the island’s military continued to hold a live-fire exercises in central Taiwan, with howitzers and cannons as well as SuperCobra attack helicopters firing on targets simulating an invasion.
“Given the Chinese communists’ refusal to drop their military threat, sustaining sufficient self-defence capability is a must to safeguard the lives and freedom of our fellow countrymen,” President Chen said.
“Their (Chinese) continued efforts to hike military spending and missiles targeting Taiwan have posed a threat to peace between the two sides,” he said.
Since the pro-independence president was re-elected in March, Beijing has stressed its long-standing vow to take Taiwan by force should the island try to declare formal independence. The Taiwanese navy currently operates a fleet of four submarines, but only two of them could be deployed in the event of war. The other two are Guppy-class warships built by the United States in the 1940s. Before the first new submarines can be delivered to the island, Taiwan’s defence ministry plans to upgrade the combat capability of the two Dutch-built submarines which have been serving the navy for 16 years, the Taipei-based Liberty Times reported, without identifying its source.
The two submarines would then be able to launch US-made Harpoon missiles to attack maritime targets, it said, adding they would also be armed with air-independent propulsion systems that would make the warships to remain submerged on battery at slow speed for a longer period of time.
Nevertheless, Chen has insisted the arms package is intended to defend Taiwan and has vowed to maintain peace in the Taiwan Strait.
“Hereby I want to stress that sustaining sufficient self-defence capability is by no means aimed to engage in an arms race with the Chinese communists,” he said. “Wars can only be stopped by full preparation for wars.” afp
Taiwan to contact The Los Clintonos Labs for free information.
/sarcasm
They would be better off to hire engineers and design their own and build it themselves. They could base the design on one of their newer subs and just update the on-board equipment, or maybe "buy" by fair means or foul a basic design and modify it to their needs. That would put their fate more fully in their own hands. Otherwise they are just opening themselves up for more Chinese blackmail of German, Dutch, and American governments.
What Taiwan really needs are SSBNs!
ping
You've missed the point. Taiwan does not need attack or patrol submarines; they need nuclear deterrence! Two Taiwanese SSBNs would essentially eliminate the threat of Communist Chinese invasion.
I would agree with you. That is a wonderful idea. But they would need to develop them secretly or China would use that as a reason to invade the island.
(Just 'do it'...)
BTTT
U have a great home page!
I dunno...if they don't want to pay anything for it...maybe they don't deserve it.
Chen is the master of the pithy comment..../sarcasm.
He is walking a tightwire here. He is of the "Independence Party" yet he dares not utter those words. He lets his lackeys place subtle, and not so subtle, statements about that topic.
Taiwan is also going thru an incredibly painful period of 'growing up' as a democracy. Its almost tribal with the various parties and alliances that spring up and change characters literally over night.
Also, there is almost daily scandals occuring in the different Military higher-ups as the 'new guard' roots out the 'good-old-boys' network of the remaining KMT loyalists who are in the top eschelons. Patronage, kick-backs and plain old bribery has been the SOP for many many years.
Also..."afp" = Agent France Presse - a French news wire service. Be vary wary of their stories. Some are good & accurate, most are very anti-USA and pro-PRC.
Well the PLA already has an advantage over Taiwan.Even if Taiwan does manage to get to buy 8 diesel subs(trouble is who is going to sell them),it will take atleast 5 years before the 1st is delivered-by 2006 ,China will start taking delivery of the 1st of 6 kilo class subs from Russia,which are equipped with supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles& AIP-far far superior to anything that Taiwanese have.
I honestly don't see the EU going to continue its arms embargo on China(hell ,even the Brits want it lifted).If China doesn't strike Taiwan now,it will probably be lifted by 2006-U cannot ignore a market the size of China.After all the only market that comes near to China is that of India,which has Israel as it 2nd biggest supplier,followed by France.I don't think the EU will immediately allow the sale of heavy duty stuff like subs or fighter aircraft & will possibly begin with electronic systems & Design help,much like the way they engage India.
That's the thing. Taiwan should not be given diesel subs, it should be given nuclear powered subs such as our Ohio class SSBN. China only has the Xia-class SSBN which is not that powerful. The Chinese could try to acquire the Typhoon-class SSBN from Russia but I don't believe the Russians would sell them that (but they might if they offer a high enough price). China has over 500 ballistic missiles pointed at Taiwan. That's enough to completely level the island. Taiwan needs nuclear capability.
Well as much as i agree with ur point-the question is how can a nation which has only operated diesel subs (which weigh only upto 2,000 tonnes atmost) operate a 22,000 ton behemoth( that is if the US sold them one-which is highly impossible as of now).They haven't built subs-so building a big nuke boat is nigh on impossible.For eg-the Chinese Han class nuke attack boats were a big big dissappointment when it entered service in the 70s-high radiation,noise problems etc-so with the Xia class SSBN.The only option for Taiwan would be to either buy/build a diesel electric sub with AIP &give it a modest nuke strike capability with cruise missiles which have a range of around 500 kms(the Tomahawk or a sea launched JASSM comes to mind,but will the US take the risk to sell it to them)-Nuclear capability on diesel subs is nothing new ,Israel is definitely thought to have it on its Dolphin class subs ,while India is rumoured to have it on its Kilo class subs.Another option would be to build a small nuke attack boat like the French Rubis class which weight only 2500 tonnes.Having said all that ,it will take time to build such a system -by that time a red flag may be flying on top of the Taiwanese parliament.Besides the Chinese are a dictatorship-do u think they would be deterred by a few nukes which may destroy atmost few naval bases or 1 city(afterall ,most Chinese ,irrespective of their political leanings see Taiwan as a part of China)-that cannot be said of Taiwan which is a democracy & no government there would be willing to see their homeland sent into the history books(which i assure u ,the Chinese communists are not hesitant to do).
The Xia may be a dissapointment-but the Chinese are building a new class of SSBNs (type 094 ,if im correct)-which will be on par with modern SSBNs & carry 16 missiles with MIRV warheads,they will probably be in service by 2007-2008.These could hit the US mainland without venturing into the deep Pacific,hence be protected by the Chinese fleet or hit India without having to enter the Indian ocean.Actually most folks here don't know that Russia never sells China it's best systems-afterall it see's them as a longterm threat.For eg Chinese Su -30s are fitted with baseline Russian systems & have no canards or thrustvectoring engines unlike Indian & Malaysian ones-same too with their MI-17 helos,which have a simple avionics fit & poor night vision capabilities when compared to Indian or Russian variants.So i don't see the Russians selling the Typhoons to them soon,besides the Chinese may not be wanting it either (logistical nightmare).
Thanks! I just updated it to fix some broken links and add a new product. Let me know what you think.
Thanks! I just updated it to fix some broken links and add a new product. Let me know what you think.
U still have a great home page!
Thanks for the ping!
If Formosa has the opportunity to block the Taiwan strait with d/e submarines for red chinese landing boats, it will be much more difficult to launch a successfull offensive strike for Beijing. The capability to defend themselves (and prevent war) on the small island is in the well known own interest of the western nations, because Taiwan is a important trading partner and war in this area would spoil business with mainland china for a long, long time. This will be reason that somebody (probably the french) will sell them suitable d/e submarines in the near future.
To sell Taiwan american Ohio class boats with armament would be disastrous. I do not think that Beijing would be amused if its inhabitants would vaporize because of Taiwans (US-supplied) Trident rockets, which could be launched after a clash between both Chinas. It is very likely that they would see the responsibility in Washington and nuke some cities in America... WW III??! Not so funny.
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