Posted on 08/17/2004 5:55:52 AM PDT by dirtboy
Here's an idea: Let's have a debate on the Vietnam-era service of John Kerry and George W. Bush.
The men who served with Kerry on his swift boat can tell their stories - and then the men who served with Bush in the National Guard in Alabama can tell theirs. Oh, that's right, there isn't one person who's yet come forward to say he remembers serving with Bush.
Then we can get Jim Rassmann, the man Kerry pulled out from the river under fire (and for which action he was awarded the Bronze Star), to debate the men whom Bush saved... . Guess not.
Instead, we have the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," who have made the loathsome smear ad running in some states. They say that Kerry - and almost all his crew members - lied about absolutely everything that happened in Vietnam. There's also a companion book, published by the right-wing Regnery Press, which goes further, claiming that Kerry came close to being a traitor.
None of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth actually served with Kerry. The leader of the group, John O'Neill, who has been attacking Kerry since 1972, never met him in Vietnam. Jerry Corsi, his co-author, has made outrageous anti-Muslim and anti-Catholic statements on a right-wing Web site. Kerry's commanding officer, George Elliott, retracted his criticism of Kerry to the Boston Globe, then reinstituted it. Louis Letson, who claims to have treated Kerry for the wound leading to his first (of three) Purple Hearts, is not listed in the records. Quite a Band of Brothers.
The ad was produced by the same people who painted Sen. John McCain as a Vietnam-era Manchurian Candidate during his run against Bush in 2000. It was funded by Republican contributors. The White House refuses to condemn the ad, while claiming not to question Kerry's wartime record.
It's trash, unworthy of a response. Yet in a Drudge Report-Fox News-driven world, the Kerry campaign's point-by-point response is wise - including the admission that Kerry was near, not in Cambodia on Christmas 1968, but also that he made a run into Cambodia in early 1969.
It isn't enough these days to decry "dishonest and dishonorable" campaigning. The Kerry campaign is using the Swift Boat Veterans ad as its own fund-raising tool - and it should.
ping - here is an editorial that is part of the media's Swift Boat counteroffensive this morning.
LOL Wrong. Guess the author missed the video clip on the news of the lady who stood up and said she served with Bush in AL.
How to write a Philly Daily News editorial: Put one's hands over one's ears, scream "I'm not listening!!!", then regurgitate whatever Carvile was ranting about a couple days earlier.
Bring ... it ... ON!
Better yet...why don't we have a debate to discuss which candidate has spoken to both sides on virtually every issue? And...if they truly want to go there...bring out Kerry's 9 "brothers" to debate the 254 Swifities. I would watch that debate.
President Bush is running on his record as the Commander in Chief during the War on Terror, John Kerry is running on his record as a junior Navy officer in Vietnam.
Does anyone besides me see a difference in relevance here?
All this can be put to rest if his military personnel record is released to the public, just as Dubya's was.
Why aren't the media holding Kerry to the same standard they demanded of Dubya?
Their new editor in chief made a brief stop in Lexington, KY to serve as editor for our liberal rag. It is godawful, and she is doing even worse in Philly. Recall, it is the first paper to endorse John Kerry.
Two things:
1) Bush isn't touting any kind of Vietnam war hero record as his platform to be elected. He is running on his performance of the last 4 years.
2) They need to concentrate on Kerry's activities post-war also. I really think he may have committed treason.
How 'bout we just have Kerry release his military records too?
Hi, I am here for an arguement...
“Here's an idea: Let's have a debate on the Vietnam-era service of John Kerry and George W. Bush. The men who served with Kerry on his swift boat can tell their stories - and then the men who served with Bush in the National Guard in Alabama can tell theirs.”
I’ve got a better idea… Let’s have a debate regarding something relevant to the presidency: The accomplishments and ideas that have been presented by John Kerry and George W. Bush during their respective stints in public office.
Naah…
Only an ignorant lefty would say none of the Swift Boat Vets for Truth served with John Kerry.... Maybe someone should tell this idiot that every single one of John Kerry's commanders have signed the Swift Boat Vets for Truth letter and 60 of those who served with John Kerry in Coastal Division 11 & 13 have contributed to the book "Unfit for Command" and signed affidavits as well.
As John O'Neil said last night on the Joe Scarborough show......."The Jig is Up"
-"Oh, that's right, there isn't one person who's yet come forward to say he remembers serving with Bush."-
Um, that's 'cuz Vietname was a long, long time ago, and GWB would rather deal with PRESENT matters!!! Besides, of course, people have come forward, so that's just wrong.
" They need to concentrate on Kerry's activities post-war also. I really think he may have committed treason."
Then theres that little assasination plot in his background too.
Didn't Kerry accuse Bush of being AWOL during Vietnam? Kerry has attacked Bush unmercifully on the issue. But when criticism of Kerry comes out, the Kerry camp gets their panties all up in a bunch. It's funny how the democraps can dish it out but they can't take it!
Kerry did not come close to being a traitor, he was a traitor....and worse!
In 1971 Kerry tried to get his political career off the ground by being anti-military.
Now he's trying to get the top job by being pro-military.
Kerry is merely an opportunist who lacks character.
The Dems, led by Lanny Davis, have gone to great pains to try and alter the meaning of "served with" to "served under".
This guy has a good idea. Another suggestion: Have Kerry and Bush stand on a stage and each can tell their stories about how they spent Christmas in Cambodia. Oh yeah, Bush wasn't there....whaaat? Nevermind,--neither was Kerry.
Well, the Philly papers are doing all they can to turn out that 105% vote in the black/union precincts, I see.
Yes, but first, let's quote all the times W has cited his service during Vietnam as THE MAIN REASON why he should be elected....
"Guess not."
Dang, dude: what a stupid editorial.
Dan
If none of these veterans served with Kerry... then why was he using their photograph on his website? This is making me crazy!!!
Kerry pulled a crewmate out of the water after he put him there and killed a couple of teenagers in sampans.
President Bush liberated 50 million people from tyranny.
Is that true?
And to give it even more credibility - and the editors, cover. . .it is unsigned.
60 vets say the same thing and its trash.
HERE'S AN IDEA!!! READ THE BOOK AND THEN SAY THIS AGAIN! so there
So is this twisted editorial...
In Kerryese he was saying I was a young Junior Naval officer before I became an old junior Naval officer.
Think O'Neill arrived just after Kerry left (post haste, of course). So O'Neill was serving; while Kerry was trashing; but he knew and served with many who were there in the weeks before O'Neill arrived; and were there; when Kerry left.
Of course, this is a lie.
AP Article shows that Bush asked about Vietnam pilot slot. (Kerry's bogus claims refuted-February 8
excerpt:
Maurice Udell, one of Bush's flight instructors at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas, remembers Bush as a standout student. "I'd rank him in the top 5 percent," says Udell, now 73 and retired.
~snip~
Further, the assertion that none of the Swift Vets served with Kerry is yet another flat out lie.
John Kerry is a very dishonest person who has spent a lifetime defending our enemies
Let us honestly compare the military record of each candidate. Let both candidates' military histories and their supporting documents be opened to full, objective inspection.
Then let us examine how each candidate has represented or re-fashioned what our objective research discovers about that chapter in his life. How have the candidates refashioned their military service in ads, speeches, etc? How does their representation correspond to the truth?
Then let's answer whether military service 30 years ago is less or more telling about a candidate than his behavior today, and the way he lies or does not lie about his military career for current political gain.
You want room 12A, just along the corridor...
He took over Kerry's boat after he left. He debated Kerry over Vietnam 30 years ago. They try to discredit him but what about the 59 others in the book he wrote who knew and spent time with Kerry over his 4 month tenure. BTW how does one acquire all those medals over 4 months, actually 1 in training and 3 service anyway..? There were guys there for years who didnt acheive anywhere near that.
Kerry is the only serviceman there who applied for a purple heart for bumbling a grenade and blowing his own a$$ up.
President Bush liberated 50 million people from tyranny.]
Thanks. . .
Works for me. . .
>Jerry Corsi, his co-author, has made outrageous anti-Muslim and anti-Catholic statements on a right-wing Web site<
It's my understanding these "outrageous" statements were made on FreeRepublic. FreeRepublic isn't a right-wing web site, is it? Oh no! I am part of the vast right-wing conspiracy!
Why is it "loathsome" to "smear" Kerry about his service, but just fine and dandy to be crticial of Bush's military service in the same article. Strange.
Is that true?
Yes, but he debated Kerry on the Dick Cavett show in 1971 (and wanted Kerry to accept more debates which Kerry refused to do, having had his head handed to him on Cavett).
The 60 contributors to the book that did know and serve with Kerry have documented and footnoted their contentions about Kerry's unfitness. Further, the small "Band of Brothers" that Kerry goes around with are not permitted to speak to the press without authorization from Kerry.
This is basically what the mainstream media is saying! 'Unfit for Command' is selling quicker than the bookstores can get it on the shelves!
For the love of God... CNN's Wolf Blitzer had Admiral Crowe on to denounce O'Niell and his book without reading it. 'Crossfire' did the same with Carville and Lanny Davis!
Mathews followed suit in MSNBC's 'Hardball'... Chrissy shouted over O'Neills replies and said Kerry has the medals to prove it. He never read the book either!
Rather, Brokaw and Jennings are deaf and dumb on the book... it's as if it doesn't exist!
Time is running out!
I agree. My wife and I were watching Scarborough Country last night, and I think the back-and-forth argument over his actual service sounds to the average voter like so much political back-and-forth. I think the severity of what he did when he got home needs to be brought before the public. John Kerry lied about "war crimes" and has admitted he lied about "war crimes." These vets need to be clear about how John Kerry's lies affected them when they got home.
For the record, John Hurley stated on Scarborough last night that Rich Baker does indeed support Kerry. Supposedly he will step forward to say so soon. Don't know (ahem) what's holding him back...so that would go back to two in the picture that Kerry brandishes about that support him.
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