Posted on 08/18/2004 9:20:22 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
I picked voting rights and big important issues because they are glaring examples of exceptions to your theory. I could also pick the gradual acceptance of women and blacks into public schools and universities. That didn't take a war. Or the right to marry out side of ones own race. Or work in fields not traditionally acceptable for women. The right not to be discriminated when purchasing a house or renting.
You picked Gambling as a right that has been infringed. Here is a link to the state of Montana that shows gambling was illegal in the Montana at the inception of it's constitution but as years and as Montana's population grew the restrictions against gambling were eased.
http://www.doj.state.mt.us/gaming/historygambling.asp
You are a funny guy. You argue that constitutional amendments are not routine and should not be considered as evidence of expanded rights, yet you include prohibition as evidence of your theory...and prohibition was repealed. You got big balls neverdem.
Confiscate the license, grab the perp, and DEPORT them, please.
There's no intent at comedy. The examples that you chose were "zebras". If you can't recognize their historical uniqueness, i.e. major wars and constitutional amendments implemented in their aftermath, or the Prohibition of Alcohol and its subsequent, sole repeal as a Constitutional Amendment, then maybe history is a subject that you should avoid, just as you avoided all of my other arguments against open borders.
Those Constitutional Amendments to which I refer are the Bill of Rights, adopted in the aftermath of the Revolution and eventual Constitutional Convention, those numbered 13, 14 and 15 after the Civil War, and 18 and 21 which were Alcohol Prohibition and its subsequent repeal. That's a majority of the Amendments. They don't happen frequently. Look at the commotion with the proposed amendment to ban same sex marriages.
How can you compare the rarity of the Constitution and its Amendments, which is supposedly the supreme law of the land, to the surfeit of more than 20,000 laws which infringe upon the Second Amendment, i.e. the natural right of self defense, let alone all the other laws, decrees and regulations issued by the democratic governmental entities within this country?
You can not cite the justifiable expansion of rights to females and blacks without recognizing the loss of privilege and rights which white males had previously claimed, to their obvious detriment.
You picked Gambling as a right that has been infringed. Here is a link to the state of Montana that shows gambling was illegal in the Montana at the inception of it's constitution but as years and as Montana's population grew the restrictions against gambling were eased.
Singling out the example of gambling is illuminating. Most state governments made gambling legal by starting state lotteries once they decided that they needed to increase revenue, with the ruse that those funds would be dedicated to education, even though the revenue was commingled with all other government revenue.
I can't avoid saying the obvious. You are being obstinate in refusing to recognize the general proposition that more government means less freedom for individuals at their expense for the benefit of those in the majority.
After almost five years at this forum, you can't avoid the following quote:
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin(1706 - 1790)
That is because I don't believe it to be correct, and I have given a dozen reasons to prove my point. I can give more but I doubt it will change your obstinate refusal to recognize that anarchy doesn't mean more freedom.
Romans 13:1-6
1 Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God. 2 So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. 3 For the authorities do not frighten people who are doing right, but they frighten those who do wrong. So do what they say, and you will get along well. 4 The authorities are sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for you will be punished. The authorities are established by God for that very purpose, to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government for two reasons: to keep from being punished and to keep a clear conscience. 6 Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid so they can keep on doing the work God intended them to do.
You can not cite the justifiable expansion of rights to females and blacks without recognizing the loss of privilege and rights which white males had previously claimed, to their obvious detriment.
I recognize the loss of privilage but not rights. Affirmative Action was a logical step to enforce equality and correct past injustice. It seems to have worked in my eyes and the eye the others. Today AA has outlived its need and the debate is now how to phase it out.
"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality." - George Washington
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin(1706 - 1790)
The American people don't always get it right but they learn from their mistakes. Prohibition and welfare reform are great examples. This is a government of the People, by the People, and for the People. Not wolves.
"Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." -- Winston Churchill, speech, House of Commons, Nov. 1947
One more example is the AWB which will expire in 5 legislative days. Now I can have a semiautomatic with a bayonet holder and a flash suppressor. I'm gonna be a well armed sheep even though there are more laws and more people since 10 years ago.
Again, you cite exceptions to the general tendency of legislation or regulation, once enacted, staying on the books forever, with the recent exception of laws having sunset provisions. Both Alcohol Prohibition and welfare had produced absolute disasters in organized crime and minority families, respectively. Now the "War on Drugs" feeds some old and some new criminal organizations. Somehow, I get the impression that you never lived in a city large enough to have a major league team. Please check out the links.
The war on guns: Joel Miller explains how drug cops are killing 2nd Amendment
Welfare reform was not permanent. "Campaign Politics Seen as Slowing Welfare Law"
Try reading "When I Was a Kid, This Was a Free Country"
If Congress renews the "Assault Weapons Ban", I promise not to tell you, "I told you so", when Bush signs it.
Countries almost never fall from exterior threats, but almost always do from interior ones. We're busy with non-existent a$$wipe threats like Afghanistan and Iraq, but Bush and the US administration are busy trying to destroy this country by leaving the doors open to whomever wants to walk across the border.
When Congress lets the AWB sunset I promise to remind you you are a dumb sonuvabitch.
Welfare used to be a right. It is no longer a right. You got exceptions for constitutional ammendments, war, and sunseted legeslation...none of which include welfare reform...but what the hell. Your theory has been shot full of holes and you defend it to the end. I don't know what else to say to you except it takes a real tool to move the goal posts everytime you are proven wrong. I'm tempted to look up your past posts. I suspect you pissed on Dubya before Saddam was caught and then posted it doesn't matter. Whatever major loser.
Really tell that to Yugoslavia, and Iraq, and Vietnam, and Afghanistan, and blah blah blah blah balh. Do you even think about the crap you post?
We're busy with non-existent a$$wipe threats like Afghanistan
I have no response...I just want PaleoConservatives to see the morons they are in bed with. I hope you get your head cut off.
And of course that isn't happening with unlimited immigration --- massive migration just leads to more instability --- but those employers of illegals just want the cheapest possible labor and it is to their advantage to have Mexico remain corrupt and poverty stricken. Open borders is making things worse in Mexico -- and I'm sure you noticed their July elections showed some big losses for Fox's PAN party and a big turn to the left.
The only way Mexico is going to improve would be for unlimited immigration to the USA to stop being the solution for every problem --- and they would have to change that corrupt government and the culture of corruption and machismo. Otherwise Mexico only remains a producer of desperately poor people.
Bushbot, you can't recognize the zebra analogy and your back with the ad hominems. Did you forget to take your meds today?
As far as Bush, about the only way Bush acted in a conservative manner is as commander in chief, making at most a few recess appointments of circuit judges, signing tax cuts and the ban on partial birth abortion. Otherwise, he's been the proverbial RINO expanding government.
I guess taxcuts, successful wars against our enemies, abortion restrictions, expanding the 2nd ammendment mean nothing to little dogs who nip at the heels of giants. Have a life, parsite.
You're repeating yourself. Yes hiring an illegal carries a fine but no jailtime...just like not wearing a seatbelt.
Now you are informed yet no wiser. Why do I bother?
Tell it to Tyson.
Penalties for those dealing with illegal aliens:
Penalties -- The basic statutory maximum penalty for violating 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(i) and (v)(I) (alien smuggling and conspiracy) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both. With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii), domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5 years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years. In addition, significant enhanced penalties are provided for in violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1) involving serious bodily injury or placing life in jeopardy. Moreover, if the violation results in the death of any person, the defendant may be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years. The basic penalty for a violation of subsection 1324(a)(2) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(A). Enhanced penalties are provided for violations involving bringing in criminal aliens, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(i), offenses done for commercial advantage or private financial gain, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(ii), and violations where the alien is not presented to an immigration officer immediately upon arrival, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(iii). A mandatory minimum three year term of imprisonment applies to first or second violations of § 1324(a)(2)(B)(i) or (B)(ii). Further enhanced punishment is provided for third or subsequent offenses.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.