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Request help from Military FReepers: Third Wound Policy
Kerry Edwards website ^ | self

Posted on 09/01/2004 1:19:56 AM PDT by christie

I was updating my John F. Kerry Timeline and ran across this item on the Kerry-Edwards official web site (johnkerry.com).

John Kerry's Vietnam Service Timeline

March 17, 1969
The policy of Coastal Squadron One, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action in Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy.



Question for military freepers:

1. Is this a policy for the Navy or just the Coastal Squadrom One? Or just John Kerry?

2. What about the Army, Air Force, Marines, etc.

3. How many Vietnam vets were granted "relief" under this policy?

4. Kerry's website only mentions three wounds in action, not three purple hearts. Should be three purple hearts, right?

5. Where can we find the official policy or regulation?


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: coastalsquadrom; johnkerry; kerry; militaryrecord; purplehearts; thricewounded; timeline
.
I'm not military, so I have no knowledge of this. I've just never heard of this policy before.
.
1 posted on 09/01/2004 1:19:57 AM PDT by christie
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To: A Navy Vet; NavySEAL F-16; oldngray

ping


2 posted on 09/01/2004 1:33:48 AM PDT by christie (http://www.hillaryforpresident-2008.com -- NOT!)
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To: christie

Curious myself, a google search mentions the rule but not the specific regulations


3 posted on 09/01/2004 1:37:58 AM PDT by boxerblues
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To: christie

To be honest, I'm USAF and I've been on 6 deployments and have never heard of this rule, but then again I've never gotten a purple heart and know very few people who have.


4 posted on 09/01/2004 1:40:49 AM PDT by Jammz ("The only thing needed for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing.")
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To: Jammz
. . . have never heard of this rule

Personally, I think they made this rule up for John Kerry just to get him the hell out of Dodge. Sounds like the guy was dangerous to have around.

5 posted on 09/01/2004 1:50:36 AM PDT by christie (http://www.hillaryforpresident-2008.com -- NOT!)
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To: christie
Third wound policy?

That would depend. Was it a scrape, a boo-boo or an owee?

6 posted on 09/01/2004 1:52:55 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson

Or rice in the arse?


7 posted on 09/01/2004 1:57:54 AM PDT by christie (http://www.hillaryforpresident-2008.com -- NOT!)
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To: christie

I can neither confirm nor deny your statement no matter how absolutely right I think you are!


8 posted on 09/01/2004 2:23:03 AM PDT by Jammz ("The only thing needed for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing.")
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To: christie
Here's the best description I've seen of the Navy policy, followed by snips from the Kerry website re: his execution of the form:

www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000451.asp

The Campaign Desk
Critique and analysis of 2004 campaign coverage from Columbia Journalism Review

(snip)

The policy in question, the impenetrably-named BUPERS Instruction 1300.39, is no longer in place. During Vietnam, it mandated that any soldier "wounded three times, regardless of the nature of the wound or treatment required" should be "reassigned as having completed a full Vietnam tour with the hospital release date considered the tour completion date. They will not be ordered to Vietnam ..."

Furthermore, the official U.S. Navy document states that, "The commanding officer of an officer who is hospitalized and/or wounded under the above criteria will advise the Chief of Naval Personnel (Pers-B1) of the officer's location, duty status, and expected duration of hospitalization. Reassignment of the officer will be determined after consideration of his physical classification and on an individual basis."

An additional, virtually unreported section of the Navy code, notes that any soldier wishing to "waive reassignment under the purview of this Instruction must forward a written request to that effect to the Chief of Naval personnel (Pers-B) for final determination."

Kerry, of course, chose not to waive this order, and his commanding officers request for re-assignment can be viewed (PDF file) on the candidate's Web site.

www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Thrice_Wounded_Reassignment.pdf
R 170730Z Mar 69
FM COMCOSRON ONE

A. BUPERSINST 1300.39

1. LTJG John Forbes Kerry USNR has been thrice wounded in action while on duty incountry Vietnam. Reassignment is requested IAW Ref A.

2. LTJG Kerry req duty as personal aide in Boston, New Yor or Wash, D.C. area. If aide, assignment not avail then any assignment considered qualified for.

3. LTJG Kerry presently on full duty status and available for reassignment.


9 posted on 09/01/2004 2:28:51 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: christie
During my tour in Vietnam with a Marine infantry battalion (68-69), the only "rule" that I encountered was the third wound (which had to be a real wound requiring evacuation out of the field and some period of recovery at a medical facility in the rear) normally got you out of the bush for the remainder of your tour. I think the logic behind it was that if you were still alive after being wounded three times, you had pretty well used up your quotient of good luck and something had to be done to keep you out of harm's way so you could live to complete your tour.

Actually had a friend from high school whose life was probably saved by this rule. Ran into him in the 7th Marines Regimental Mess Hall at Hill 55 (I Corps). He was a month away from completing his tour and permanently with his infantry company's rear element after his third wound.

Had another friend who benefited from the one wound rule. Met him coming out of the enlisted club at MCRD San Diego. Tried to shake hands but he couldn't. He was a radio operator and had been machine gunned. Had holes in his right hand, right arm and across his belly. He was over at the Balboa Naval Hospital recovering and undergoing reconstructive surgery. His ONE wound had been severe enough to take him completely out of the war zone.

The evacuation policy was designed to keep you in theater. We had Marines treated at the Battalion Aid Station, 121st(?) Evac Hospital in Da Nang, at the naval hospitals at Cam Rahn Bay and at Subic in the P.I. If you could recover, return to duty status, and complete your tour, it was your duty to do so. You had to be pretty screwed up to get evacuated all the way back to the States.

Any Marine in my battalion that showed up at sickbay claiming to need treatment for the wounds that "cut 'n run" Kerry claims rated Purple Hearts, would have been wounded alright. Wounded by his platoon sergeant taking his number 10 boot to his malingering as*. All that was needed to treat injuries like that was your first aid kit. Cut, bruised and bandaged was SOP for field operations.

You simply didn't leave your fellow Marines shorthanded in the bush by pulling some sleazy stunt like Kerry did. My personal opinion is that he got scared the VC might close out John F'n Kerry's personnel record before he could be like that other JFK (who, despite his flaws and tragic death as president, was a grade A genuine war hero). Kerry, on the other hand, probably has a big streak of ... no, I don't want to go there. But it would go a long way to explain his flip flopping.
10 posted on 09/01/2004 2:35:52 AM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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To: calcowgirl

snippets on BUPERS Instruction 1300.39

BUPERS Instruction 1300.39, no longer exists,

Never used before Navel Regulation,


was this a regulation designed just for kerry and then discountinued?


11 posted on 09/01/2004 2:36:08 AM PDT by boxerblues
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To: calcowgirl
"wounded three times, regardless of the nature of the wound or treatment required"

wounded three times, or wounded in action three times.

This is important, because if the wound needed to be while under enemy fire, and Kerry invented the enemy fire . . . fraud?

12 posted on 09/01/2004 2:38:13 AM PDT by christie (http://www.hillaryforpresident-2008.com -- NOT!)
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To: Captain Rhino
Want to second Capt. Rhino's comments about infantry Marines in Vietnam; I saw a lot of unreported minor wounds - particularly the omnipresent grenade frag wounds. Throwing an M-26 frag grenade virtually guaranteed that you'd be hit by your own steel - and the Marine 'grunts' that were hit that way would have the corpsman pick the pieces out, smear in some Johnson & Johnson First Aid Cream, bandage and keep going.

We were good at what we did and stuck together and nobody wanted to leave your friends behind.

It's very hard to understand how John Kerry could leave the crew that depended on him after only 1/3rd of tour.

13 posted on 09/01/2004 2:48:21 AM PDT by USMCVet
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To: USMCVet
It's very hard to understand how John Kerry could leave the crew that depended on him after only 1/3rd of tour

You are right but judging from what Steve Gardner said I don't think Kerry's crew depended on him at all. He was a piss poor leader in the field. If he was with a line company he would have gotten men killed. He is not an example of the warrior ethos.

Semper Fi

USMC 1982-1990

14 posted on 09/01/2004 4:02:32 AM PDT by Warrior Nurse (Black & white liberals practice intellectual apartheid when in comes to black conservatives!)
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To: Captain Rhino

Sounds as though you and I were in about the same place at about the same time... remembering exactly the same circumstances.

Semper Fi (7thMar)


15 posted on 09/01/2004 4:55:32 AM PDT by oldngray
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To: Captain Rhino
JFK (who, despite his flaws and tragic death as president, was a grade A genuine war hero).

That is debatable.

You'll have to register with the Naval Institute to read the following:

Did JFK's Order Sink PT-109?

16 posted on 09/01/2004 6:57:49 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: christie

As far as I know, this was a Defense Dept policy. The more cowardly draftees would go to the doctor for every scratch in hopes of getting their three PH's and an out. Some doctors would willingly sign them and others would send them out the door with a swift kick in the ass.

The regulations state that for a PH to be awarded, (1) it must have been received as a result of direct enemy action. If your helo crashes due to mechanical failure, even in combat, you don't get a PH, nor do you get one for stupidly getting rice in your butt from being too close to an explosion you caused; (2) it must REQUIRE treatment by a doctor. If a doctor did, but a corpsman or medic could have handled it (as all three of Kerry's PH's were superficial wounds and were treatable by a corpsman), it doesn't qualify.


17 posted on 09/01/2004 8:56:49 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: christie

Everyone is wrong that Kerry was sent home because of 3 PHs.

Kerry was sent home as a reward for a new operational method for rendering captured supplies useless. He perfected the

"I poison FOODSTOCKS by shooting them into my BUTTOCKS"

A well earned reward and he's been sitting on this laurel for over 30 years.


18 posted on 09/01/2004 9:09:07 AM PDT by GivemeaBREAK!
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To: christie
wounded three times, or wounded in action three times.

This is important, because if the wound needed to be while under enemy fire, and Kerry invented the enemy fire . . . fraud?

Good question. I have no way of knowing and haven't found anything conclusive.

19 posted on 09/01/2004 11:46:39 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Warrior Nurse
If he was with a line company he would have gotten men killed. He is not an example of the warrior ethos.

Couldn't agree with you more. Everything I hear about his performance suggests that he was more than willing to risk everyone around him to build up his bio.

By the way, has anybody besides me wondered how a place can be in 'hot and heavy combat' one day, yet safe enough to run around freely to stage movies the next day?

Semper Fi,

11th Marines and 1st Marines, '66-'67

20 posted on 09/01/2004 3:32:50 PM PDT by USMCVet
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To: christie
In 1969, in the 4th BN, 47th INF (part of the 2nd BDE, 9th INF DIV; the Mobile Riveine Force), any soldier receiving his 3rd Purple Heart, and/or getting within 90 days of his date to return home, was transfered out of the field (i.e. out of a line unit, or combat MOS) to an administrative job back at the Base Camp.

From my observation, this was necessary. When a soldier had been wounded 3 times, he became ... shall we say, very nervous. Sometimes took to drinking too much to calm down. Often was at least partially incapacitated due to his injuries.

The same thing was often true of men who had less than 3 months left to serve. We called this condition the "Double-Digit Fidgets." Caused men to do things such as wear their frag vest all the time, even sleep in it.

VietVet
21 posted on 09/01/2004 9:09:52 PM PDT by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to appologise for any of)
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To: VietVet
Your comments make sense. Thank you.

Sadly, Kerry seems to have trivialized the purple heart. Self-applying for medals for for self-inflicted scratches and spending the rest of his life claiming to be a hero . . . what can I say.

Four days, four months . . . must seem like an eternity when you are at war.

But those on the left who claim they want our soldiers home aren't concerned about "our soldiers." They want America to look bad. The hate America first crowd.

Thank you for your service.

22 posted on 09/02/2004 6:30:58 AM PDT by christie (http://www.hillaryforpresident-2008.com -- NOT!)
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To: christie

Remember Everyone

Policies during that era can be much much different than today.

Many of the old WW II and Vietnam era policies are now gone or changed so much that todays military would never know what use to happen


23 posted on 09/03/2004 12:56:23 PM PDT by Kitanis
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To: christie
Christie

Not a Nam vet, currently active Army

There was a 3 wound policy

However the way Kerry used it was beyond the pale

What is far more interesting is the supposed Silver Star "with V device". That appears on the records Kerry has released.

Only the Bronze Star has a V device. Because the Bronze star can also be awarded for meritorious service

The V device on the Bronze star differentiates an award for a specific act of bravery from an award for meritorious service over a longer period

The Silver Star is for "Gallantry in action"

As such, every award of the SS is for an individual act of gallantry - no V decice is awarded.

Any awards clerk would know this

Makes you wonder who posted that in the records

All the best

Qatar-6

24 posted on 09/03/2004 7:34:00 PM PDT by Qatar-6
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To: christie

I shared this info on another thread the other day, but here goes...

We had a Hospitalman 3rd Class (a Navy Corpsman) transferred to our ship after he had been wounded three times and receiving 3 Purple Heart Awards.

His wounds included gunshot wound, shrapnel wound, and the third from stepping on a punji stick while on patrol with a Fleet Marine Force unit.

Going on the theory of him pretty much using up his "luck" he was transferred to our ship - a Destroyer Tender. Our ship was moored in Subic Bay and Kaoshiung, Taiwan during our overseas deployments and the ships of the fleet came to our location for repairs, supplies and R&R periods.

Servicing the fleet was also part of the war effort. This situation took place in 66-67.


25 posted on 09/04/2004 4:16:59 PM PDT by Diver Dave (Stay Prayed Up)
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To: christie; Howlin; Hon; neverdem
I have heard of this policy ONLY being used for ONE PERSON (John Kerry) at the specific suggestion of his fellow commanders in the Swift boat squadron.

In other words, NO OTHER (able-bodied) VIETNAM VET has EVER claimed that he was shipped home because of 3 Purple Hearts!

In other words, Kerry got out of Vietnam BECAUSE his fellow skippers (the Swifties he is now cursing!) deliberately conspired with his CO to get him as far away from the combat zone as possible as fast as possible!

I've looked up the Navy Reg involved as far back as I can, and I've NEVER found that clause in writing.

My opinion, it was an SouthEast Asian "urban legend" that the Swifties used to conn John Kerry into a way home. And his CO cooperated with the scam, because Kerry was spectacularly failing in the combat zone, and was becoming an increasing embarressment to his command, and to entire command in Vietnam with his constant complaints to higher staff - especially after several face-to-face meetings with Gen Abrams and Adm Zumwalt in Saigon.
26 posted on 09/04/2004 4:24:46 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!))
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3539


27 posted on 09/04/2004 4:56:21 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: christie

Two full tours in Nam - no Purple Hearts. If it was a policy in the Army, I never heard about it.


28 posted on 09/04/2004 5:05:34 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

I work with a retired Sub Skipper and he would agree with you. I just talked to him the other day about it and if I didn't know better I'd think you were he.


29 posted on 09/04/2004 5:08:13 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE; Diver Dave; Qatar-6; leadpenny

Thanks all. I kind of had a suspicion that Kerry got special treatment, but more to get rid of him than because of his connections.

I pray for this country because if this person becomes our commander-in-chief . . . well, you all know. It's spitball defense.


30 posted on 09/05/2004 12:49:57 AM PDT by christie (http://www.hillaryforpresident-2008.com -- NOT!)
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