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Live Thread: Ben Barnes and CBS Attempt Another Bush Smear (60 Minutes)
www.freerepublic.com | September 8, 2004

Posted on 09/08/2004 4:39:18 PM PDT by Howlin

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To: pacocat

Hello.

For those of us in a time zone where the program has not aired yet and, at any rate, have no plans of watching this thing, could you be so kind as to explain what "these memos" purportedly say?


151 posted on 09/08/2004 5:28:13 PM PDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: StarFan
That's a good point about JfnK.
I watched most of Rather's blockbuster interview just now, and really wished I could've smacked the smug look off of his face. Then I turned to Fox in time to hear Nader harping on the same stuff. Grrrrrrrrr
152 posted on 09/08/2004 5:28:16 PM PDT by ride the whirlwind (Where I come from, deeds mean more than words. - Zell Miller)
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To: Howlin

Ben Barnes, who represented Comanche County in the legislature in the 1960s while still in his twenties, says that his mentor, the late John B. Connally, Jr., tried to persuade him to switch parties in 1973, when Connally made the bolt. Barnes said that he told Connally he could not do so because he disbelieved in the principles of the Republican Party and was a liberal Democrat at heart.


153 posted on 09/08/2004 5:28:42 PM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: gramho12

I just sent an email also, before I came here to read posts.

Asked if Rather/CBS would be asking Kerry why he wouldn't sign Form 180? What were the atrocities Kerry admitted to commiting in Vietnam? Also why they don't challenge Kerry about lying about being in Cambodia, flipflopping on Iraq. The list goes on and on.

I won't hold my breath. No wonder their news ratings are in "the crapper".

The amazing thing to me is that MSM just gets worse and worse in their blatant campaigning for Kerry. Disgusting.


154 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:27 PM PDT by Shortstop7
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To: jveritas
My contributions are going strictly to the Swifties until the Bush campaign starts mocking the medias shameless bias and calls all of them journalistic girley-men for not asking Kerry ONE STINKIN DIRECT question about Cambodia, not signing Form 180, his campaigns direct connections to Moveon.slime., etc.,
155 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:30 PM PDT by Shqipo (The gloves are on and the corners are empty.)
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To: StarFan

Didn't Kerry try to get a deferment to study in France? When it was turned down he joined the Navy.


156 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:39 PM PDT by GOPrincess
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To: pacocat

Yah! And you have legs too! So use them and go back to DU!


157 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:42 PM PDT by Hayzo
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To: Howlin

Do they disclose for all to see that barnes is a kerry contributor/supporter/asp licker?


158 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:50 PM PDT by Donna Lee Nardo
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To: TankerKC; All

And did folks use CYA back then?

I wasn't around back then, but I always thought that was a somewhat new thing.

Did they go into other people's files too?

And isn't it funny, everybody's dead. Maybe that makes sense. It was a long time ago, but everybody but Barnes is dead.

Don't you think, if Barnes was making these allegations against Kerry, that we would have heard all about Barnes long running problem with following the law. Oh, Heavens, Barnes would have had to pull a Boorda by now.

I really think CBS News should strap a crotch camp with Dan when he is interviewing people to screw Bush. I suspect Dan had a Hell of a boner during this interview. It almost look like he reached completion during this interview. It was nauseating.


159 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:57 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: cyncooper

CBS) Former Texas House Speaker and Lt. Governor Ben Barnes tells Correspondent Dan Rather that he regrets what he calls the "life or death" decision he made to help President Bush get into the Texas Air National Guard.

Rather's report, which will include new information about Bush's military service, will be broadcast on 60 Minutes, tonight at 8 p.m. ET/PT.



Following are quotes from Rather's interview with Barnes:

Barnes on his decision to help George W. Bush and others get into the National Guard:
"I've thought about it an awful lot and you walk through the Vietnam memorial, particularly at night like I did a few months ago and, I tell you, you'll think about it a long time. ...I don't think that I had any right to have the power that I had to choose who was going to Vietnam and who was not going to Vietnam. That's power. In some instances, when I looked at those names, I was maybe determining life or death and that's not a power that I want to have. ..."

Barnes on his feelings of regret:
"It would be very easy for me to sit here and tell you, Dan, that I had wrestled with this and lost a lot of sleep at night, but I wouldn't be telling you the truth. I...not eagerly, but readily, was willing to call and get those young men into the National Guard that were friends of mine and supporters of mine. ...Reflecting back, I'm very sorry about it, but you know, it happened and it was because of my ambition, my youth and my lack of understanding. But it happened and it's not...something I'm necessarily proud of."




Thirty years after the fact, Barnes says he is one of many Americans still trying to make peace with what he did during the war.

"I've thought about it an awful lot. And you walk through the Vietnam memorial, particularly at night like I did a few months ago, and I tell you, you'll think about it a long time," says Barnes.

"I don’t think I had any right to have the power that I had, to choose who was going to go to Vietnam and who was not going to go to Vietnam. That's power. In some instances, when I looked at those names, I was maybe determining life or death. And that's not a power that I want to have."

"Too strong or not to say that you are ashamed of it now," asks Rather.

"Oh, I think that would be somewhat of an appropriate thing," says Barnes. "I'm very, very sorry."-->

1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

New Questions On Bush Guard Duty

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8, 2004




"Essentially, Bush gamed the system to avoid serving his country the way that most of his contemporaries had to."
Larry Korb, former assistant Secretary of Defense


(CBS/AP) As a fighter pilot for the Texas Air National Guard, then-Lt. George W. Bush was assigned to fly F-102's out of Houston's Ellington Air Force Base. Early on, he received excellent evaluations, say reports released years ago by the White House.

What has never surfaced before, reports CBS News Anchor Dan Rather, are four documents from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Mr. Bush's squadron commander. They could help answer lingering questions on whether Lt. Bush received special consideration during his military service.

The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" – a requirement for all pilots.




60 Minutes Correspondent Dan Rather has an exclusive interview with former Texas House speaker and Lt. Governor Ben Barnes, about the role Barnes says he played in getting George W. Bush into the Texas Air National Guard, Wednesday, 8:00 p.m., ET/PT



Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."

On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Lt. Bush for failure to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards and for failure to take his annual physical as ordered.

A year after Lt. Bush's suspension from flying, Killian was asked to write another assessment.

Killian's memo, titled 'CYA' reads he is being pressured by higher-ups to give the young pilot a favorable yearly evaluation; to, in effect, sugarcoat his review. He refuses, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job."

Thirty-one years later, supporters of now-President Bush have been critical of opponent John Kerry's Vietnam record. Now it's the president's turn to answer tough questions about his own service.

It was just what the White House had hoped to avoid – a new examination of the president's military record just as he seeks to reinforce his credentials as a wartime leader. And Republican officials wasted no time taking dead aim at Ben Barnes' claim that he pulled strings to get George W. Bush into the National Guard, reports CBS News Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts.

"I chalk it up to politics," said White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett. "They play dirty down in Texas. I've been there. I see how it works. But the bottom line is that there is no truth to this."

Asked if this is dirty politics, Bartlett replied, "Oh, I think it is."

They also undercut the personal notes Mr. Bush's former commander, Col. Jerry Killian, wrote for his own files, saying "it's impossible to read the mind of a dead man."

More difficult to brush off are two official memos that seem to contradict previous White House statements.

One "orders" the president to report for a physical. The White House has said the physical was "not necessary" because the president stopped flying.

And where the White House says the president's flying status was revoked simply for missing that physical, the memo points to both the missed physical and "failure to perform to (USAF/TexANG) standards."

"The official files tell the facts," says Bartlett. "And the facts are President Bush served. He served honorably. And that's why he was honorably discharged."

It's not just the newly discovered memos causing trouble. There are new questions as to why, when he moved to Massachusetts to attend Harvard Business School, Mr. Bush did not sign up with a reserve unit there, as he promised in a letter when he left the Texas National Guard

And why, with his erratic attendance record, he was subject to neither discipline nor active duty call-up as provided for in his contract with the Guard.

Larry Korb, an assistant Secretary of Defense under President Reagan has reviewed the Mr. Bush's record and believes he did not fulfill his contract.

"Essentially, Bush gamed the system to avoid serving his country the way that most of his contemporaries had to," Korb said.

And on top of all this, the Democrats' answer to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth unleashed an ad Wednesday charging President Bush was AWOL from the Alabama National Guard in the summer of 1972.

But like their Republican counterparts, Texans for Truth has a credibility problem. While the chief accuser, former Alabama Guard pilot Bob Mintz, says in the ad it would have been impossible for Mr. Bush to have gone unnoticed, in an interview earlier this year with CBS News, Mintz admitted he's not a smoking gun.

"I cannot say he was not there," Mintz said. "Absolutely positively was not there. I cannot say that. I cannot say he didn't do his duty."


©MMIV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.




160 posted on 09/08/2004 5:30:34 PM PDT by bitt ("I'm Mad as Zell, and I'm Not Going to Take It Anymore." (CongressmanBillybob))
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To: AZamericonnie

Eek!

That picture kinda snuck up on me as I just scrolled along.

Goodness


161 posted on 09/08/2004 5:30:51 PM PDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: savedbygrace

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162 posted on 09/08/2004 5:30:57 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Howlin
But Dan was SO serious!

Just remember, this is the same guy who powder puffed the Saddam Hussein interview. I made up my mind about this guy, when he made his bones using Nixon.

163 posted on 09/08/2004 5:31:15 PM PDT by woodyinscc
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To: StarFan

Kerry couldn't have waited two years; he graduated from college and his FOUR student deferments ran out; he tried to get a fifth deferment to go to study in France (really) but was turned down; that's why he enlisted in the NR.

Now, who got HIM in????


164 posted on 09/08/2004 5:31:23 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: ArmyBratproud
"I thought it desperate that 60 minutes would say...they had an expert look at the supposed documents to see if a guy really wrote them. THEY WERE TYPED DOCUMENTS."

That was the most desperate piece of "journalism" I've seen in a while.

165 posted on 09/08/2004 5:31:49 PM PDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: Carolinamom

They only showed the documents; held them up to the camera; I don't see them on the web site.

Until they post them for all of us to look at, I can only assume they are frauds.


166 posted on 09/08/2004 5:32:12 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: bitt

contact CBS re: 60 Minutes II

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

look on the bottom, "contact us"


167 posted on 09/08/2004 5:32:16 PM PDT by bitt ("I'm Mad as Zell, and I'm Not Going to Take It Anymore." (CongressmanBillybob))
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To: savedbygrace

Zelnorn

Press Contact:

Laura Hortas, 973-781-7845



168 posted on 09/08/2004 5:32:50 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: TankerKC

Didn't watch the show. What are these "new memos" that CBS has found?


169 posted on 09/08/2004 5:33:28 PM PDT by gswilder
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To: pacocat

We have a corrupt Democrat, currently a big time Kerry supporter, claiming to be regretful for being a politician giving out political favors to his supporters 36 years ago. Except the Bushes were not Democrats then or now...

Then... we produce some never before seen documents that we do not name the source for and which have not been publicly scrutinized and link the two loosely into an indictment that is implied but not stated to the effect that all this was a conspiracy of some sort to keep the "privileged" son out of Vietnam.


The issue that is raised here that needs to be answered is where did these documents come from and where have they been and who can testify to their authenticity? I have it! NOW we know what Sandy Berger was stealing from the national archives!


170 posted on 09/08/2004 5:33:35 PM PDT by RedEyeJack
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To: Howlin
I was a Republican living in Houston, there were about 36 of us,in 1968. I was in the Bushes precinct and went to meetings in an old firestation on Westheimer.

GHW Bush was a Republican congressman. Trust me--he had no power in Democrat-controlled Texas. I knew who he and Barbara were but I wasn't overly impressed with their "importance."

Of course, I was young and irresponsible--but saw fit to attend precinct meetings.

171 posted on 09/08/2004 5:33:35 PM PDT by lonestar (Me, too!--Weinie)
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To: TankerKC
"WE NEED TO SEE THOSE MEMOS AGAIN!"

I'll say. How convenient that they only made partial quotations of the whole memos. Who knows how out of context they were.

172 posted on 09/08/2004 5:33:48 PM PDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: Howlin

I didn't have to see this interview to know that it would be about two lifelong TX Democrats swapping stories about how evil some Republican officeholder is.


173 posted on 09/08/2004 5:33:48 PM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: DoughtyOne
It is interesting to know that many of the U.S. prisoners of war in the North were pilots. I tend to doubt any national guard pilots served in Vietnam, but you never know where you might wind up should hostilities break out.

Sorry but you are dead wrong. What follows is my letter to the local paper after a Lefty smeared G W as a coward ( actually ALL who entered the guard as cowards).

George Bush entered the Air National Guard and completed pilot training and was assigned to an F 102 squadron. Any military aviation is a dangerous undertaking, in peace or war, with the F 102 notoriously so with 259 of the 875 produced crashing at the cost of 70 dead Air force and Guard pilots. Furthermore contrary to the writer’s assertion many Air Guard pilots ended up in Vietnam. In 1968 the year he volunteered, 11 units were activated for Vietnam service. The unit Bush was assigned to the 147 FIG had pilots in Vietnam at that time, and Bush inquired as to such duty in the “Palace Alert “program, but did not have the required 500 hours. Shortly thereafter the F 102 was withdrawn from Vietnam. It continued in service as a continental defense interceptor. I have personally been on several accident scenes involving Guard aircraft and had to recover the bodies of the aircrew. No one involved in military aviation is a coward or stupid. Only the best and brightest can even hope to fly a fighter. The writer has committed a slander on all those who volunteered for the Guard, and honorably served. Funny, in 92 and 96 when Bill Clinton, a draft dodger ran for president against two real war hero’s military service didn’t seem to matter to these same liberals as a qualification for Commander in Chief.
174 posted on 09/08/2004 5:34:41 PM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Shortstop7
The MSM has put all of their eggs in Kerry's basket, and are putting their entire credibility on the line wanting him to win.

They are being stomped by New Media, and the only way they have a chance of being relevant is if Kerry wins.

Just another reason to crawl over that glass and get out there and vote.

175 posted on 09/08/2004 5:34:55 PM PDT by gramho12 (Buildings fell....a Nation rose.)
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To: cyncooper

I think there are two factors which will minimize the impact on Bush:

1) Bush has been open about discussing his service, especially in recent interviews. Kerry has yet to take questions about the Swifty charges (or anything else, for that matter!). Dubya even went so far as to say Kerry's service was more admirable than his own, BUT that he was proud of his service.

2) Bush himself requested all the files released (not that the media is reporting that little fact). Kerry hasn't.

BC04 has a strategy on this...we'll see as it plays out.


176 posted on 09/08/2004 5:35:08 PM PDT by Timeout (My name is Timeout....and I'm a blogaholic)
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To: A Citizen Reporter

Tony Snow was just asked if this revamping of the charges will stick to Bush and he vehemently says NO. Because Bush didn't build his campaign around his service, (unlike somebody else we all know and don't love).


177 posted on 09/08/2004 5:35:30 PM PDT by ride the whirlwind (Where I come from, deeds mean more than words. - Zell Miller)
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To: woodyinscc

Dan is a TX Democrat at heart though he probably now votes in NYC. His daughter is a Democrat operative in Austin. He came from the Democrat city of Huntsville and graduated from Sam Houston State.


178 posted on 09/08/2004 5:35:46 PM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: kcvl

Thank you! My email is burning up tonight LOL!

Next.


179 posted on 09/08/2004 5:35:51 PM PDT by terilyn
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To: pacocat
"If, and I mean if, these memos are genuine, then this is a very big deal. "

How is it a big deal? There's nothing in them that hasn't already been known.

180 posted on 09/08/2004 5:36:03 PM PDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: savedbygrace

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181 posted on 09/08/2004 5:36:27 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: cyncooper

CBS focused not on the Barnes interview, but on the personal documents kept by George Killian, the President's CO.

At one point, Killian writes a memo entitled "CYA" where he details how he felt that Bush was going over his head regarding his requirements.

Then, Killian issues a direct order for the President to take a physical, and when Bush does not, he issues a flight suspension for failure to take the physical and for violating regulations.

What it leaves you wondering is why a commanding officer would take and leave personal notes on a Guardsman. I would ask Killian, if he was alive "Why would you take home personal memos like that?" The inference is not good.

There may be a reasonable, and legal explanation for all of this, but it will not be spun that way.

Frankly, the President's spokesman didn't do such a great job.


182 posted on 09/08/2004 5:36:32 PM PDT by pacocat
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To: Texasforever

They looked odd, didn't they?


183 posted on 09/08/2004 5:37:24 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Mike Darancette

GTECH, Barnes terminate contract
By CHIP BROWN / Associated Press
http://texnews.com/texas97/gtech021397.html
Thursday, February 13, 1997
AUSTIN (AP) - Agreeing that former Texas lieutenant governor Ben Barnes had become a lightning rod for questions involving the Texas Lottery, GTECH Corp. announced Wednesday that it was cutting all business ties with Barnes.


Ben Barnes: John Kerry’s Unbelievable Last-Ditch Weapon
By Lowell Ponte
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 8, 2004
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=14993


Kerry Keeping Eye On Big Donors

WASHINGTON, June 18, 2004
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/18/politics/main624711.shtml
(CBS) By Beth Lester,
CBS News Political Unit


EXCLUSIVE: The Dirt on Ben Barnes Claims about Bush and the Air National Guard (Part 2)
The Blogspirator ^ | 8/29/04 | adam_az
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1202419/posts
Posted on 08/29/2004 12:37:39 PM CDT by adam_az



Then consider this quote from the September 2001 issue of Texas Monthly [Ben Barnes talking]:
"I'm not really a lobbyist. I don't represent clients day to day on legislation. I'm more of a crisis manager. I get called when people have a big problem in Washington that they can't solve by passing a bill."


Good old Ben was also very smart...known for only taking cash.


184 posted on 09/08/2004 5:38:10 PM PDT by Maria S ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, 6/28/04)
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To: savedbygrace

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185 posted on 09/08/2004 5:38:15 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: rodguy911
Thank you, sir! :^D

186 posted on 09/08/2004 5:38:35 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: mass55th

Yes--these are memos that are "just found", and not part of the Guard record. They are apparently memos that Bush's CO kept....

Why the heck would a CO write these about a Guardsman? That is the question, and it won't be spun well.


187 posted on 09/08/2004 5:40:03 PM PDT by pacocat
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To: Osage Orange

Apparently it is. I tune to Fox News and their kicking the crap out of the other networks! LOL


188 posted on 09/08/2004 5:40:42 PM PDT by SmellsLikeOwen
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To: rodguy911
I don't get any of this, Bush scored more points than necessary, 50 I think, each and every year of his service, every year he was in and everything he did has a paper trail, what is the problem here? I must be missing something.

That's what I keep asking. The year in question 50 units were required; GWB completed 56. What's the problem?

189 posted on 09/08/2004 5:41:13 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: cyncooper

I loved Brit's pressing Wendel Goler about how many debates Clinton agreed to.

Another liberal shill (Goler) exposed by Hume. I'm glad Brit left ABC!!!


190 posted on 09/08/2004 5:41:31 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Donate to the SwiftVets!)
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To: savedbygrace

Campbell's Soup Company

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191 posted on 09/08/2004 5:42:09 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Rokke

I haven't watched CBS for years unless there is a sporting event I want to see.


192 posted on 09/08/2004 5:42:46 PM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: Howlin
I graduated from college in 1971. After graduation from school, if you were male and medically fit you had three choices.

1. Enlist in the branch of service of your choice.

2. Stand for the draft.

3 If you were wealthy and/or had the proper connections you could enter the Guard. Those were the facts of life.

193 posted on 09/08/2004 5:42:52 PM PDT by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: SmellsLikeOwen
Hehehehe.....Mine tells me to tune in there also..!!

FRegards,

194 posted on 09/08/2004 5:43:31 PM PDT by Osage Orange (NO....!! I'm madder than ZELL...and I'm NOT going to take it anymore..!!!)
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To: bitt

Thank you very much.


195 posted on 09/08/2004 5:43:54 PM PDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: mass55th

Agree... Where did they come from? Who do they belong to? Why were they made available at this time? Is this all the documents held by whoever owns them? Are there others that might be exculpatory to the allegations made tonight? This is a campaign advertisement disguised as a "news" program...


196 posted on 09/08/2004 5:44:04 PM PDT by RedEyeJack
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To: cyncooper; TomGuy; hole_n_one

Can some of you guys in the later time zones WATCH this interview and get a GOOD LOOK at those docuemtns.....how they were typed, where the signature was.....that kind of thing?

A screen grab would be great!

Who else does screen captures?


197 posted on 09/08/2004 5:44:13 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: A Citizen Reporter

This is just putting down all the people who served in the National Guard. They should organize and respond and not be defined by others as their service being anything less than honorable. This is in the same category as putting down our allies when those bozos keep saying we went it alone in Iraq.


198 posted on 09/08/2004 5:44:39 PM PDT by maxter
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To: Howlin

Relax folks. This NG stuff and the upcoming Kitty Kelley stuff is going nowhere. I think there is alot of stuff that is coming up on Kerry and the MSM had to fire their last topedo before Kerry implodes.

And as much as I hate to say this, next week at this time (probably Monday or Tuesday) all of this coverage will probably be blown away by 24 hour coverage of Hurricane Ivan as it looks like it's going to hit somewhere in the Gulf. The media went ape over a Cat 2 storm in Florence they will probably be having orgasms in covering a Cat 4 storm in Ivan if it stays that strong.


199 posted on 09/08/2004 5:45:29 PM PDT by The South Texan (The Democrat Party and the leftist (ABCCBSNBCCNN NYLATIMES)media are a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Timeout

Three factors: Bush signed Form 180 to have all his records released. If he thought there was anything harmful in them, he never would have signed the form. On the other hand, Kerry has refused to sign Form 180. What does that tell you?


200 posted on 09/08/2004 5:46:04 PM PDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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