Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

CBS KILLIAN MEMOS: DFU EXCLUSIVE FREEPER INTERVIEW with the expert - Dr. Philip Bouffard
phone interview - Dr. Philip Bouffard | 9-10-2004 | Doug from Upland

Posted on 09/10/2004 10:09:35 AM PDT by doug from upland

For one expert, the jury is still out.

I was thrilled a short time ago to to have a phone call returned from the recognized expert in forensic investigation of documents. He is Dr. Philip Bouffard.

We discussed his preliminary findings "The biggest problem," he said, "is that these are terrible copies."

As of yesterday, Dr. Bouffard seemed to get aboard the feeling that the CBS Killian memos were forged. As of now, "it is a little bit up in the air." He needs to see better documents and has no idea what CBS has.

A colleage in Ottawa sent him some information yesterday about a CD ROM named "Interpol Cards." Since the 1950's, Interpol has collected and categorized type specimens. Dr. Bouffard recalled that he bought the CD back in 1983, so he checked it.

In 1972, something similar existed. He did find some font types that were somewhat similar. There is one in particular, and a few more that have the look of Times New Roman.

A machine that could have been used at the time was an IBM Selectric Composer (if I am reading my scribbled notes correctly). It was an expensive machine.

Someone from the CHICAGO SUN TIMES spoke with him. The man had a military background and knew of that machine. According to him, although some of the top brass might had had that machine, it would have taken some time to filter down to the National Guard. The superscript would have been an expensive special order. And it had 88 keys. To get superscript, you would have had to give up something else.

Some of the problems Dr. Bouffard still see are the "th", the auto centering, the vertical legs of the capital "M" and the crossing of the "F" - whether is was higher or lower.

Dr. Bouffard wonders if Killian kept just these memos or whether there are others. To be definitive, he needs to see the originals.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: cbsmemos; drbouffard; killian; rathergate
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-104 next last
To: doug from upland
"The biggest problem," he said, "is that these are terrible copies."

These documents were supposed to have came from LtCol. Killian's personal file. Not personnel file. Why would he have an copy of a CYA memo he wrote to himself in the file and not the original? If I was the Killian family, I'd sue Dan Rather and CBS.

21 posted on 09/10/2004 10:28:53 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Guys like John Kerry spit on guys like me. I've been waiting 33 years to spit back.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief

Hey Doug....Don't be beaten down....CBS is on the run.
Thank you for some great digging....!


22 posted on 09/10/2004 10:29:04 AM PDT by Duffboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief

Hey Doug....Don't be beaten down....CBS is on the run.
Thank you for some great digging....!


23 posted on 09/10/2004 10:29:15 AM PDT by Duffboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
Dr. Bouffard wonders if Killian kept just these memos or whether there are others. To be definitive, he needs to see the originals.

Though the copies may have been terrible, this would only be a problem if one were trying to distinguish between two fonts that were so very close that the slight blurring on the copy could obliterate the differences. This still wouldn't make it impossible to detect whether either of these two fonts were available at that time. It wouldn't do anything to hide the mono- versus proportional spacing problem. It wouldn't do anything to hide the facts about problems with the content of the memos. None of these things, which are indisputably detectable, depends on having a bit clearer copy of the text. The expert is waffling.
24 posted on 09/10/2004 10:29:16 AM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sitetest
As another poster suggested, perhaps Lt. Col. Killian was writing his personal memos on a typesetting machine, and taking the time to do the kerning, too.

No go. The Killian widow and son have both said today repeatedly that Killian didn't know how to type and didn't take lengthy notes of anything.

Plus, more is coming out. The abbreviations used aren't typically those used by the military, the dates are accurate to military use, the date for the physical isn't per military rules, etc. The holes are getting pretty darn large.

25 posted on 09/10/2004 10:30:16 AM PDT by Exigence
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
For one expert, the jury is still out.

Nonsense. This is what you'd have to do to reproduce the centered text, exactly.

Type the line on a separate piece of paper. With proportional fonts, even if you had a proportional typewriter, you don't know how long the line is until you type it.

Measure the length within a point (1/72 in.).

Reposition the carriage to the correct place, within a point.

Repeat for each line.

This was a person who does not know how to type, writing a casual memo for is personal record.

26 posted on 09/10/2004 10:31:24 AM PDT by dinasour
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Exigence; sitetest
the dates are accurate to military use

Of course I meant to say the dates are NOT accurate as to military use.

27 posted on 09/10/2004 10:32:14 AM PDT by Exigence
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: watchout

Huh?


28 posted on 09/10/2004 10:33:15 AM PDT by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo for President/Jeff Flake VP 2004!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Exigence

Dear Exigence,

I wrote that sentence tongue-in-cheek.

Certainly, no one, not non-typists, nor typists, nor typesetters, bothers to write memos to himself on a typesetting machine, doing the manual kerning, also.


sitetest


29 posted on 09/10/2004 10:36:25 AM PDT by sitetest (Spitball Kerry for Collaborator-in-Chief!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: dinasour

For goodness sakes, give the guy a break. He is the expert in this field. For his reputation, he would like to see better documents.


30 posted on 09/10/2004 10:37:51 AM PDT by doug from upland (Dan Rather is a journalist like Michael Moore is a pole vaulter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

One 1973 memo cited someone named Staudt, who retired in 1972.


31 posted on 09/10/2004 10:39:23 AM PDT by ravingnutter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jtminton

Good point!


32 posted on 09/10/2004 10:41:35 AM PDT by Lurking2Long
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: aruanan

He is not waffling. Would a doctor diagnose you by looking at 5th or 6th generation non-digitalized x-rays? He is being prudent, as I would be. He is heavily leaning toward forgery. But he cannot say at this point with absolute certainty.


33 posted on 09/10/2004 10:42:24 AM PDT by doug from upland (Dan Rather is a journalist like Michael Moore is a pole vaulter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: VRWCTexan

Here are the questions:

1. Where is the origin of the documents, if they didn't come from the son or widow? Unless you can point to another close relative...this starts to become a questionable source.

2. If you can't produce other documents in this same group, from perhaps the same typewriter (there would only be one in the house or one in the squadron area...face it...Guard units didn't get nothing much in terms of hardware support)....then your origin of documents is suspicious.

3. Because of the font and spacing problems...this had to be fake...but from who? My guess is a Texas Demo team. It can't be the work of one individual. And based on the amount of effort...it would require a fair amount of homework to know the correct words to say. I'm guessing some young liberal lefty's out of Austin.

4. Did the Democratic national leadership know about this "joke"? I would hope not...but nothing would surprise me.

5. Did the Democratic national leadership call up their CBS source...a naive source probably...and hint that this would be available via someone? Could have happened...it does appear that 60 Minutes went very quickly about using it, and barely did any research. For a pro-operation like 60 minutes...this is very unusual.

6. Did Dan Rather know about the document?

7. If it is a forged document...will there be a national apology to the Killian family and to George Bush? If I were the family...I'd find the guy who wrote the document and demand well over $10 million in damages attributed to Col's good name.

8. Does this damage Kerry's campaign? If I were a member of the staff...I'd be demanding that everyone halt this Vietnam or Guard discussion immedately and start talking the economy. If they don't do that...they can forget about the entire election in two weeks.

Final Comment. This really opens the door for a nasty campaign in 2008...and I'm basically ashame of both parties. I'd rather talk national politics, the economy, and jobs...and all of these "punks" just want to keep talking Nam and Texas Guard...what the hell do I care about either one of them?


34 posted on 09/10/2004 10:44:03 AM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ravingnutter

Yes, there are huge problems for CBS with this story. Let's keep pushing it forward. Just because the expert is not going to give us his final conclusion because he has only seen very bad copies, don't get excited here. We are moving this along.


35 posted on 09/10/2004 10:44:37 AM PDT by doug from upland (Dan Rather is a journalist like Michael Moore is a pole vaulter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
For goodness sakes, give the guy a break.

Freepers giving someone a break?

How long have you been here? :-)

36 posted on 09/10/2004 10:48:11 AM PDT by dinasour
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: dinasour
" Reposition the carriage to the correct place, within a point."

Actually, if I recall correctly, you would have to repostion the paper by visual guesstimate, since the carriage only moved in designated steps. I remember having to do just that on old Selectrics. But why would Killian bother with such a fractional centering detail in a memo to himself, especially since he didn't type at all?

37 posted on 09/10/2004 10:50:42 AM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.opgratitude.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: sitetest
I wrote that sentence tongue-in-cheek.

Thanks for setting me straight -- I should have caught what you meant.

38 posted on 09/10/2004 10:50:44 AM PDT by Exigence
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

The good Dr. is being a professional here (somthing CBS lacked)....checking out all possibility...this is a good thing... try to go from say 98% sure to 100% sure based on the font alone that these docs could not have been made in 1972... before he offer his final opinion


39 posted on 09/10/2004 10:54:56 AM PDT by tophat9000 ("Karma Sutra Kerry"... he's got 101 positions on any issue but in the end your just F....ed!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker; doug from upland

I have posted proof that the USAF (AFDSDC) tested and approved the use of this machine in 1969. President Bush was a pilot for the National Guard. Is it too far-fetched to believe that his commanders had access to USAF office space and equipment at the base?

It is critical to rule out this machine, because if the Composer is ruled-out, then these are fakes. Even if the memoes turn out to have been typed on an old Selectric Composer, without the originals there is no way to prove that they were not made 3 years ago or 3 weaks ago.

FR's credibility is at stake here, too.


40 posted on 09/10/2004 10:55:47 AM PDT by TaxRelief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-104 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson