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John Kerry – Less than Honorably Discharged?
The Illinois Leader ^ | 9/28/04 | Michael Ashbury

Posted on 10/03/2004 1:27:55 PM PDT by wagglebee

OPINION -- What a young man did more than 30 years ago shouldn’t be a primary criteria in determining his qualifications to be President of the United States. George Bush has had almost four years now as Commander and Chief of the World’s largest military force and he should be judged on how well he has done. Yet John Kerry and the Democratic Left won’t give it up.

On almost a daily basis, Kerry says, "I served this country honorably as a young man in Vietnam [4 months/12 days] and I will serve this country honorably as Commander and Chief." Then the Left yells that George Bush got preferential treatment in getting into the National Guard and even failed to complete his Guard obligations. They have even forged documents to prove their point.

The facts are that George Bush served honorably in the National Guard obtaining service points far in excess of the 50 annual service points required to meet his obligation.

Records show that in 1968/69 he accumulated 253 points -- 340 in 1969/70, 137 in 1970/71, 112 in 1971/72, 56 in 1972/73 and 56 in 1973/74 -- points far in excess of the service agreed to and that required to meets his obligation and be Honorably Discharged.

George Bush has never made his National Guard service a qualification to lead this country, nor has he ever questioned the service of John Kerry.

While the Left and the mainstream media have never questioned the Vietnam era service of John Kerry, they seem to feel that the record of George Bush 30 years ago should be of concern to voters in November.

But what about John Kerry’s record?

We are told that he was a decorated veteran. We are also told that he was deeply involved in anti-war activities on his return from Vietnam in violation of his oath as an officer in the US Navy. Kerry has a long and well-documented history of providing "aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of war. By his own account of his actions and protests, he violated the UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. Code while serving as a Navy officer. Further he met, on two occasions, with North Vietnamese negotiators in 1970 and 1971, while a Reserve Officer, willingly placing himself in violation of Article three, Section three of the U.S. Constitution, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.

From here, the record of John Kerry becomes unclear and the mainstream press won’t demand that John Kerry sign a Department of Defense (DOD) form 180 that would release all of his military records.

Records released by Kerry's campaign are confusing. There are indications that he was Honorably Discharged on Jan. 3, 1970, Feb 16, 1978, July 13, 1978 and even lately Mar. 12, 2001.

Why the confusion on a relatively simple service event? Could it be that John Kerry received a less than honorable discharge in the early 70’s because of his anti-war activities? And then was pardoned for those activities when then President Jimmy Carter on January 21, 1978 (Proclamation 4483) granted a full, complete and unconditional pardon to all persons who may have committed any offense between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act or any rule or regulation promulgated there under?

Did John Kerry request that his service be granted an Honorable Discharge and it was finally granted in 1978? Only a complete release of his military records will show what actually happened during this period. And to date, John Kerry has refused to sign the necessary DOD form 180 which would allow for this release.

If the Democratic Party, the mainstream press, and the Bush critics are going to demand -- as they do on almost a daily basis -- that George Bush release all of his records, shouldn’t they do the same for John Kerry?


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: flipflops; kerry; kerrydischarge; kerrymilitaryrecord; vietnam
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To: reg45

A Fight on an F-102? The F-102 was a single seat fighter/interceptor. But I wish W would take him for a ride: mount him on the port side pylon and launch him in the direction of Cuba.


61 posted on 10/03/2004 2:55:02 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: wagglebee

GW Bush has said, i received a "honorable discharge", several time. humm i wonder if he knows something about kerrys discharge?????


62 posted on 10/03/2004 2:55:36 PM PDT by camas
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To: xzins
Forget everything except the DD 214.

DD214 - N. He has at least another DD214 following officer's training. And he should have at least another.

63 posted on 10/03/2004 2:55:37 PM PDT by sevry
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To: All
President Bush in the remaining debates: "Senator Kerry, I released all my military records. What are you hiding about your military service by refusing to sign Standard Form 180?."

Then let's see the pundits and MSM bring that up in post-debate item by item critique and commentary.

64 posted on 10/03/2004 2:57:42 PM PDT by AWestCoaster
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To: Clump
IMO sKerry's Bronze Star citation that was signed by John Lehman (Secretary of the Navy under REAGAN) is quite possible a forgery. Lehman has said he has no memory of signing it. If that is a forgery, could there be a link between this and the Rathergate Bush forgeries?

Kerry Bronze Star Citation

Navy Launches Formal Kerry Medal Probe

65 posted on 10/03/2004 3:05:20 PM PDT by wagglebee (Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)
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To: xzins

For those interested in trivia, a separation code 263 on the DD Form 214 means "bedwetter".


66 posted on 10/03/2004 3:06:02 PM PDT by Ben Hecks
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To: camas

It's possible that Bush does "know" something, but due to confidentiality laws he is unable to disclose it.


67 posted on 10/03/2004 3:06:36 PM PDT by wagglebee (Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)
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To: No Longer Free State
Sounds just like what the Bush folks are saying about their man's ANG service. Difference is they've released his records and been subject to falsified documents by Kerry supporters. Yet your kind continue to demand proof without actually presenting your own proof. Tell your man to sign the release and to stop throwing around charges of lying until he's willing to meet the same burden of proof he demands of others.

Kerry is not my man--never was and never will be. I have given several donations to the SBVFT and attended their DC rally. I am also a registered Republican and contributor as well as a Vietnam veteran. "My kind" wants Kerry defeated in November.

I just think we need to pick issues we can win and not give the other side softballs over the middle of the plate, which they can hit out of the park. The other side jumps on these unfounded allegations and use them to discredit legitimate charges. Check out Findlaw and you can get Kerry's official Navy records, which pertain to his honorable discharge and reserve obligations.

68 posted on 10/03/2004 3:09:13 PM PDT by kabar
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To: BIGLOOK

The TF-102A was a two seat (side by side) trainer variant.


69 posted on 10/03/2004 3:11:03 PM PDT by reg45
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To: Ben Hecks; Polybius; Tacis

Thanks for the enlightening new info, Ben. :>)

I'm still interested in the 214.

Does anyone have a link to where Kerry's DD214 has been posted?


70 posted on 10/03/2004 3:11:30 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proudly Supporting BUSH/CHENEY 2004!)
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To: Republic
Records released by Kerry's campaign are confusing. There are indications that he was Honorably Discharged on Jan. 3, 1970

"For the good of the service"?

71 posted on 10/03/2004 3:13:59 PM PDT by reg45
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To: xzins

Here's the link to form 214.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf


72 posted on 10/03/2004 3:14:17 PM PDT by wagglebee (Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)
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To: xzins
DD 214

DD215.... correction to DD 214

73 posted on 10/03/2004 3:14:58 PM PDT by deport ("Because we believe in human dignity..." [President Bush at the UN])
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To: xzins

Here's the link to everything sKerry has released.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html


74 posted on 10/03/2004 3:19:27 PM PDT by wagglebee (Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)
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To: netmilsmom
I remember reading that the President ordered the Pentagon to release all his records. Because he is Commander in Chief, he does not have to sign the SF-180, thus he just ordered the release.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know. But I do know that if it is true the MSM will not report it. They will let it hang in air for their liberal readers to accuse the President of not signing the form.

75 posted on 10/03/2004 3:23:15 PM PDT by ncpatriot
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To: camas
ABSOLUTELY!

And someone, somehow, somewhere is GOING To OPEN up this question and resolve this...if john kerry had to fight to have a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE switched around so that he could someday run for President.....AMERICA DESERVES TO KNOW THIS!

Our TROOPS should NEVER have to be led by a man who was DISHONORABLY DISCHARGED or CHARGED with POSSIBLE TREASONOUS BEHAVIOR or CHARGED WITH ACTIONS UNFIT FOR A NAVAL RESERVE OFFICER or ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE!

76 posted on 10/03/2004 3:27:17 PM PDT by Republic (Will michael shiavo and his concubine and children now preside over the murder of Terri?)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Did you hear about this; the day of the debate. A false Anthrax attack...sounds to me like a RAT op.

Below is my post that I put on the live debate thread concerning the debate and how GWB wasn't "on his game".The link below is about the "anthrax attack" in Broward County Florida the AFTERNOON of the debate.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1231706/posts

I don't know if freepers factored the "attack" into GWB's "performance" on debate night, while sKerry was getting his "nails done" and "relaxing". Here is what I posted:

To: riri; NYC Republican; All
"Bush better have somebodies ass tonight, he came across as completely unprepared. He never hammered home just WTF this big master plan is? Where is this money coming from? It was like Bush kept walking into Kerry's punches. Man, I was not expecting this."

I live in Daytona Beach. I just had to fix my roof for the THIRD time, and will not be able to get it repaired properly for at least four WEEKS, because of backlogged homeowners like myself. My neighbors just got their electricity back on YESTERDAY. The town is so badly damaged on the beachside that it will take a VERY long time before it will monetarily recover.

That being said, I watched GWB touring some of the devastation in South Florida today. I wonder what Kerry was doing today, besides getting "pretty".

As I was getting ready for work starting at 4:00 pm, Neil Cavuto came across with a Fox News Alert, saying that there was a possible ANTHRAX attack at possibly 5-6 locations in Broward County, just north of Dade County where the debate was to be held.

Do you think the Secret Service RUSHED to inform Kerry of the possible attack, asked him if he needed FEMA to start a possible evacuation of say at least 2-3 thousand people (to start with), and check with homeland security to see if any other US cities have also been targeted, and see if the National Guard needs to be put on alert in Broward for help with evacuations if needed, and alert other states NATIONWIDE to be at the ready if needed.....LESS THAN FIVE HOURS BEFORE KERRY'S NATIONALLY TELEVISED DEBATE ???? And put Kerry on HOLD for around 90 or so minutes, until the possible anthrax attack was checked out for it's validity ???

Yes, I believe that GWB wanted to have somebody's ASS tonite on that stage!! After going through a possible terror attack less than 5 hours before his debate, I'm sure he would like to have the person's ASS that pulled this VERY WELL TIMED AND TOO CONVIENIENTLY PLACED fake attack. I also believe that after going through all that today, he would LOVE to have F'n's ASS, who IMMEDIATELY starts off calling him a LIAR, and HE"S NOT DOING HIS JOB !!!!!

F'n doesn't care about my roof problems, or much worse the people here in Florida who DON'T HAVE A HOME ANYMORE, NO JOB because their workplace was also destroyed. Worse yet, IMHO, F'n probably couldn't believe his "good fortune" with the anthrax "attack" RIGHT before the first and maybe MOST important prez debate. I DO believe GWB cares about me, and the American people, and unlike F'n, works 24/7-365 to KEEP IT THAT WAY. Do I think GWB's "performance" last nite was a little "less" that it could have been?? Yes I do. But I understand why, and that is why I think considering the "day" GWB had BEFORE the debate, I think he did just fine keeping his "cool" and NOT WALKING across the stage AND DECKING F'n FOR SAYING HE'S a LIAR and NOT DOING HIS JOB!! (I apologize for my "rant", but I felt it needed to be said after reading all the negative posts here tonite.Thanks !)

77 posted on 10/03/2004 3:31:05 PM PDT by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
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To: ncpatriot
Kerry needs to be questioned about this...

I pray the TOWN HALL meeting or some savy reporter along the way will ASK KERRY if he had to fight a dishonorable discharge or ANY charges leveled against him for failure to act appropriately while he was in our service.

And he has to be asked WHY his picture hangs in Vietnam as a HERO to the communists there.

And he has to be asked WHY he wrote the book 'The New Soldier' with the upside down American Flag on the cover and later had it pulled from the selves ( can be found at wintersoldier.com), a book which now sells for hundreds of dollars on Ebay. He needs to be asked if he still stands by his writing in that book...if he still, in his heart, has NO respect for veterans of ANY FOREIGN WAR and would still refuse to march with veterans on Veterans Day like he wrote in his book.

78 posted on 10/03/2004 3:31:44 PM PDT by Republic (Will michael shiavo and his concubine and children now preside over the murder of Terri?)
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To: Inyokern
"I'd like to see us take Fallujah and capture/kill Zarqawi. That would be a great October surprise."

It would make far less of an impression on the ignorant followers of the pied pipers of RAT politics than the producing of Osama bin Laden and subsequently springing a trap of his own making on John F'n.

79 posted on 10/03/2004 3:33:40 PM PDT by sweetliberty (Proud member of the Pajama Posse!)
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To: Republic

I pray the TOWN HALL meeting or some savy reporter along the way will ASK KERRY if he had to fight a dishonorable discharge



His posted DD214 clearly states Honorable and has the TYPE code as 256 which is Honorable....


80 posted on 10/03/2004 3:33:57 PM PDT by deport ("Because we believe in human dignity..." [President Bush at the UN])
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