Free Trade Area of the Americas(FTAA). A discussion....(vanity)

[Liberalism=MentalDisorder]

I am looking for some dialogue with fellow conservatives on the Free Trade Area of the America's(FTAA). I have been doing a lot of research into this and as a conservative it is very troubling. It would seem to be more of the globalist "new world order" agenda at work and looks to cause the erasure of the American border.

One problem is, most of the groups(aside from the Birchers) who oppose the FTAA are wacky nutjob liberals- the communist party of the USA and other looney left radical marxist groups oppose it because of its association with "evil global corporations" and think it doesn't go far enough. Any conservative that see's these crazies protesting in Miami will want nothing to do with their cause and assume they are wrong in opposing the FTAA(they are wrong about WHY they are opposing it).

From my own research it seems that Mexican president Fox behaves as if the FTAA is a done deal. That in itself is also troubling. It explains the reluctance on the US governments part to seal up the borders or do anything about illegal immigration.

Now that we have Bush re-elected I wonder if any of us will actually put pressure on the White House on issues like immigration and border security. If Karl Rove is any indication it doesn't look like the White House gives a rat's behind what the people think on that issue and the more you learn about the FTAA the more it makes you wonder about the real agenda here. Why is there so much talk about "Homeland Defence" when our own back door is wide open?

I would like to hear from those of you that are educated on this subject as well as those who have never heard about it as I think this is something conservatives need to be aware of. I know many of us that don't consider ourselves neocons are not happy with globalism and the FTAA seems to be the first concrete step in that direction.

At first it seems like tinfoil hat material but then you read something like this:

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, a member of the executive committee of the Trilateral Commission and a longtime power in the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), called the vote on NAFTA the single most important decision that Congress would make during Mr. Clinton's first term. Indeed, Kissinger acknowledged in the Los Angeles Times that passage of NAFTA "will represent the most creative step toward a new world order taken by any group of countries since the end of the Cold War...." NAFTA "is not a conventional trade agreement," he noted, "but the architecture of a new international system."

Representative Tom Tancredo (R-CO) has clearly and correctly warned:

"There are people in the [Bush] administration, and in Mexico, and in Congress, who believe that we should do away with borders entirely. Their ultimate goal is to create this hemispheric ‘free trade’ area consolidating all of North and South America into some kind of ‘United States of the Americas.’"

Is that what we want as conservatives??

The FTAA is even listed here as one of the worst Fed programs: http://www.conservativeusa.org/12worst.htm

Now that we as Republicans control the majority of power, what will we do with it? By the way, as far as I know Bush has stated he wants to press the FTAA through in January. Ask you're friends, I bet not a one has even heard of the FTAA.

Here is the link to the official FTAA page: http://www.ftaa-alca.org/alca_e.asp

This page has a lot of info and is from the John Birch Society: http://www.stoptheftaa.org/default.html

If you do a cursory search you will find all kinds of looney leftist groups that oppose it but I am not posting those links.

What say all of you?

[GrandEagle]

The day FTAA is ratified is the day that we are officially no longer a sovereign nation.
If we can't defeat this, we deserve it. We have a great example across the pond in Europe.

[GrandEagle]

Stop FTAA
Stop FTAA

A couple of articles for your review.

[meenie]

Actually we need FTAA. The faster we destroy our economy the better. Everybody needs a good depression to get their head straightened out. Materialism will mean far less when the belly is empty. I witnessed this in East Europe when the Russians took over. Those poor starved wretches I helped out of the Elbe River after escaping from the Commies were far more appreciative of freedom after running the gauntlet of mines, dogs, and machine gun guards. We need a good dose of national socialism, political correctness, and authoritarian government to get the true values in life sorted out.

[Liberalism=MentalDisorder]

Sadly, you may be right. It doesn't seem like the opposition to the FTAA within conservative ranks is more than a peep. I have asked everyone I know if they have heard of it and they say "FTA what?"

[monkeywrench]

Ping!

[GrandEagle]

Sadly, you may be right. It is unlikely that our Nation has the testicular fortitude to protect it Republic from treason from within.

[EagleMamaMT]

Yes, the FTAA is he sovereignty-killing treaty it appears to be. For more information on the FTAA, do a search here on FR for Freeper hedgetrimmer. He is the go-to guy on the FTAA.

Frankly, the cheap-labor, free-traitor wing of the Republican party is clamoring for the FTAA so it is pretty much a done deal. Bush has made no bones about his intentions of pushing it through the Senate and I doubt there is much the American people can do to stop it. He will listen to our opposition to the FTAA about as well as he listens to our opposition to open borders and illegal immigration.

Some words of advice: Learn to speak Spanish, free yourself from as much debt as possible and learn how to live on very, very little income.

[Liberalism=MentalDisorder]

I refuse to speak Spanish. I have to hear it everyday seeing so many illegals around here as it is. We can still oppose this and write our reps but again, now that Bush is re-elected I doubt he really cares what we think. I don't think Bush is doing this for greed or anything, I think he honestly thinks it will help but as we know, it wont. It will destroy whatever shred of sovereignty we have left.

What will our nation look like in 20-30 years?

[hispanichoosier]

I'm actually a big supporter of the FTAA for two key reasons. Central & South America's competitive advantage is in cheaper labor. They can produce goods more cheaply than we can. Thus, we can get more goods at less cost when they are produced in these countries. (Of course, this assumes that the quality of goods produced is comparable, which may or may not be the truth.) This is why TVs are in nearly every household in America; they can be produced cheaply overseas, and the cost savings can be passed on to consumers.

A second reason I support the FTAA is that allowing Central and South American countries to employ their competitive advantage will result in better standards of living for Central & South Americans. Better standards of living result in more stable governments. Indeed, even if their governments are corrupt and totalitarian, greater economic freedom and opportunity will--eventually--result in greater political freedom.

[Liberalism=MentalDisorder]

Are you aware of the fact that the FTAA will erase our borders and allow ANYONE(terrorists as well) to come and go as they please? Does the prospect of the US becoming a third world country delight you?

[hedgetrimmer]

Thank you for the PING!

[EagleMamaMT]

"What will our nation look like in 20-30 years?"

A third-world slum, with a standard of living for the average American to match.

Don't get me wrong. I'm going to do my level best to help defeat this criminal treaty. I've been very vocal about the FTAA to my senators and my representatives. I've also been telling everybody I know about the FTAA and how it's going to be rammed through the Senate, and I've encouraged them to call or write or e-mail their representative and senators. Most of the citizens I've talked to about it can't seem to fathom the concept of the loss of our sovereignty. Trusting souls, aren't they?

I talked with Sen. Bond's representative at a summer listening post he set up in our county seat this summer and I brought up the FTAA. His representative told me she couldn't discuss Sen. Bond's position on it because he hadn't yet voted on it and she knew nothing about the FTAA. When I called my other senator's office and my representative's office, the people I talked to in both offices had the same dismissive attitude that Bond's representative displayed.

At this point in time, I'm not hopeful that we're going to be able to defeat this thing because I believe the really big campaign donors to both parties are pushing hard for the FTAA.

[hedgetrimmer]

Without going into enormous detail, you should know that a dialectic is being used on Americans so that they will not oppose the FTAA. The global elite are for the FTAA, the anarchists and communists appear to be against it. So, a right thinking person says, it must be ok, if the leftists and anarchists oppose it.

The truth is in a dialectic both sides can be the wrong choice, its really important for Americans to think independently to make the right choice, not just the ones presented to them. But the persuaders always hedge the discussion in two choices, and this includes the main stream media, our President and Congress and the nongovernmental organizations and businesses that will benefit from the FTAA like the Chamber of Commerce and Wells Fargo Bank. In a dialectic, the people controlling the discussion won't let you know there are other choices, and won't let other choices into the discussion.

The dialectic of the FTAA makes you choose a side, the global elite's or the anarchists. What if you don't side with either? Americans need to take control of this debate, and the situation. The discussion must not be whose side are you taking, but whether the United States should remain a sovereign nation, or become a "member" of the FTAA under the WTO and ultimately under the complete control of the UN.

Any person who loves freedom will say NO!

The dialectic is a method of coercion that was first described by a fellow named Hegel. Hegelian Dialectic

There are two really important points that need to be brought to this discussion.

1. Lenin said that in order for global socialism to succeed, all countries in the world must be socialist.. Therefore global socialist trade pushed by the WTO requires the US to become socialist.

2. The European Union has published it constitution, and although it isn't stated, the EU is actually a union of socialist states, the union being brought about by the elimination of borders through "free trade". The FTAA will be a union of socialist stated, the United States being the principle country that has not yet fallen to socialism. The OAS and Summit of the Americas state that the FTAA will create a trade zone like the EU, and the subtext to that is that all states must be socialist for the economic union to "work".

I can go on if you want me to.

[hedgetrimmer]

I can't agree. When people are born into socialist systems they lose their individuality and the will to preserve freedom. When the freedom loving among us die, out, the socialists win, because the children born into our society will not have known freedom and will perpetuate the serf mentality that the globalists desire.

[hedgetrimmer]

allowing Central and South American countries to employ their competitive advantage will result in better standards of living for Central & South Americans

Supressing competitiveness in American companies is the only way to give others the competetive advantage. The wealth transfer caused by this is called socialism. Can you support the FTAA knowing it will create a socialist United States?

[american spirit]

Sorry but we heard all of this same propaganda on NAFTA and unless someone is a big time corporate big-wig it's been a dismal failure for the American middle class as well as the farmers in Mexico. Illegal immigration has increased markedly, hundreds of thousands of good paying middle class jobs have been lost, etc. and guess what.... has the cost of food, cars, clothes, appliances, etc. being imported from all these "low wage" areas decreased at all? Heck no, it's been a ruse to fatten corporate bottom lines at the expense of our economy.

[american spirit]

What many folks don't realize is that if we sign on to this FTAA agreement our Constitution and legal system will most likely undergo an unprecedented attack from political sellouts and their useful idiots in the media. I'm sure there'll be a hue and cry for a new "modern" constitution to replace that nasty, outmoded one from 200 yrs. ago. Also, I think we'll see a big push for a new definition of citizenship.

[Liberalism=MentalDisorder]

Feel free to go on. My ears are open.

[Liberalism=MentalDisorder]

Yes and we are already seeing signs of that. The pushing of the gay elite agenda is a small example of a tiny piece of the larger socialist puzzle. The constitution is "ancient,outdated and harsh" according to them. Gay marriage abolishes traditional marriage in time, then morality becomes a clouded haze of gray. Soon, religion will also fall with the socialist goal of state as religion. The FTAA seems to push the idea of "world" citizens, doing away with nationalism.

This makes me want to start a moon colony!!