Skip to comments.Democrats, Republicans, What Would Jesus Say About Same-Sex Marriage?
Posted on 11/15/2004 6:38:13 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Democrats, after their embarrassing defeat at the hands of George W. Bush in the 2004 elections, apparently are trying to reframe what "moral values" are.
Voters, when given a choice of what was their primary reason for how they voted and whom they voted for picked moral values as the #1 reason. This can be found at http://www.pollingreport.com
The attempt by Democrats to reframe "moral values" is now being used to encompass such issues as poverty, while apparently excluding such issues as same-sex marriage.
Why would Christ be for same-sex marriage, when Christ was involved in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?.. but we'll get to that later.
While Christ, Himself, stated explicitely that we, as Christians, were to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit the infirm (Matt. 25:31-46), the Bible also states that if one can work, and willingly chooses not to, that person should do without. (2 Thess. 3:11) "..if any would not work, neither should he eat."
This even includes mothers who wont work and yet want to live off of taxpayer-subsidized apartments, AFDC checks, and food-stamps.
Remember, Christ called Paul the Apostle; Paul even declared this. Christ appeared to Paul the Apostle on the road to Damascus. Paul stated that the things which he wrote in the New Testament were given to him by Christ. (Galatians chap. 3)
Those who are for hand-outs to those not willing or wanting to work, be they Democrats or Republicans, are going against scripture.
Now, suprisingly to some, Christ had alot to say concerning same-sex marriage. In Matthew 5:31, 19:4-6; Mk. 10:1; Luke 16:18) Christ stated such things as: " For this cause shall a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the twain shall be one flesh." Never once did Christ state that a man was to leave his father and mother and cleave to another man, or a woman leave and cleave to another woman. As well, not one scripture from the beginning of the Bible, Genesis, to the end, Revelation, ever condones same-sex marriage yet alone same-sex relationships.
What does the Bible, though, say about same-sex relationships?
To answer this, one must first start back at the beginning of the Bible, the book of Genesis. In Genesis 13:13 it states that "the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly." The Bible even records that God appeared to Abraham to tell him that he intended to destroy Sodom (from whence the term Sodomy is derived) for its wickedness.
In Genesis chap 19:4-9 it states that the men of Sodom came outside of Lot's(Abraham's nephew) house and asked Lot if they could have sexual relations with the two male guests who appeared in the gates of Sodom at dusk and were lodging with Lot that night. The two guests were actually angels as the Bible declares. Lot emphatically declared to them no. Then, after being told no, they stated their intention to gang-rape Lot: Gen. 19:9. Lot offered his two virgin daughters to the sex-crazed sodomites, knowing that as homosexuals they wouldn't want them, anyway.
Just why did God destroy Sodom, though, as Genesis chapter 19 declares?
Some say it was for inhospitableness or attempting to gang-rape Lot or even desiring the angels. While these may be additional factors, the Bible says in Genesis 13:13, long before the two angels even set foot in Sodom, that "the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly." Even Ezekiel 16:46-50 states why God destroyed Sodom.
Ezekiel 16:46-50: "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strenghten the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed ABOMINATION before me. Therefore I took them away as I saw good."
What abomination could this be? Sodomy.
Leviticus 19:20 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination."
Now to the part about Jesus helping in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. 1.) Genesis 19:24: "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven. This was after Lot had made it safely to the caves, with his two daughters, as per the angel's instructions.
2.) Jesus said in John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
3.)Now, it was either the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ, or the Father and the Holy Ghost, or the Son and the Holy Ghost which destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Even if the Father and Holy Ghost were the two who destroyed Sodom, Jesus was still involved since He and His Father are one, as He, Christ Jesus, in John 10:30 declared.
As well, numerous scriptures in the New Testamnet declare that homosexuality is an abomination in God's sight.
Romans 1:27 states that "men left the natural use of the woman and burned in their lust one with another, men working with men that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves the just recompense for their error.". The preceeding scriptures talk about women with women being a sin in God's sight, as well.
All of this clearly shows that Christ Jesus is against same-sex relationships as well as same-sex marriage. They are an abomination in God's sight.
2 Peter 2: 7-11 declares why the Bible in Genesis 13:13 calls the men of Sodom "wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly. It states "and [the Lord] delivered just Lot vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked."
vexed. Gr. Kataponeomai. Translation: To wear down. filthy. Gr. Aselgeia. Translation: Lustfulness Conversation Gr. Anastrophe. Translation: Conduct
Translation of 2 Peter 1:27: God rescued just Lot, who was wore down from the lustful conduct of the wicked sodomites, who, according to Ezekiel 16:46-50 were destroyed for the abomination of Sodomy as Levitius chap. 19, Romans 1:27, and Ezekiel 16: 50 declare.
Christ says in John 14:15 that "if you love me you will keep my commandments."
Christ commanded that men only marry women, not men marrying men or women marrying women. If you are for same-sex marriage the you are against his commandments, and cannot possibly love Him. Christ, as well, destroyed the Sodomites for their wicked, lustful lifestyle, as John 10:30 and Genesis 19:24 show. Why would he then, again, condone a same-sex relationship yet alone a same-sex marriage?
If Christ Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality, as Genesis 19:24 declares, why should we?
I believe that you will find this thread "article", written by me, worth reading.
Thank-you to those who take the time to read it.
Otherwise, Christians fall into the same trap as Moslems where the entirity of their law (sharia) is based on suppositions about what the Prophet and his Disciples might have said, might have done, or could have thought about something.
About 1000 AD they locked their law in place. It has been unchaged ever since. That's why the knock brickwalls over on convicted homosexuals and abuse their women.
It's best of Christians speak where the Bible speaks, and remain silent where the Bible is silent.
Sin is sin. Whether it is sodomy, murder, stealing, or cheating on your taxes; sin separates us from God. The only sin God cannot forgive is the unrepentant sin. No sin is to be proud of, not even homosexuality.
Obviously, you don't understand the Bible or how it is applied in a believers life.
Not being critical, but based on what you posted, is completely wrong.
DEM: Practice safe Sin
REP: Practice NO Sin!
For the first 300 years Moslems devised the Sharia by asking "What would Mohammad do"?
We would be denying Him and those who do not know what Jesus said about denying Him would surely be blessed if you could go dig it out and remember that what He said applies to all that he ever said and taught.
It's all there in His Word and if it isn't in His Word don't sweat it for there is nothing hidden pertaining to salvation.
On the other hand the title of the piece had that old "What would Jesus do" business in it.
Once you have Jesus in hand there's no reason to then imagine yourself in His place pondering the question.
In addition to the quote above about man and woman becoming one flesh, Jesus 'spoke' volumes about his regard for marriage by performing his very first miracle at a wedding.
Jesus spoke about those things that people were confused about in scripture. The people in 1st century Jerusalem understood perfectly and agreed with the Biblical teaching on sexual immorality so he didn't HAVE to speak to them about it.
Leviticus 18:22 THOU SHALT NOT LIE WITH MANKIND AS WITH WOMANKIND: IT IS AN ABOMINATION
The last of Romans Chapter One is clear.
So you are implying that Christians would fall into the same trap, as in "WWJD" and fall into the same mindless totalitarian set of laws ?
If so, that is not even worthy of a response.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men,leaving the natural use of woman, burned in their own lust one toward another, men with men working what is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Amen to your comments BUMP.
Let's just leave it at that.
HOMOSEXUALITY AND WITCHCRAFT are not little sins....
BOTH ARE ABOMINATIONS TO GOD
When you ask WWJD you put yourself in place of God.
This is why you were given a scripture ~ to see what God Himself said about the matter. There's really no need to commit idolotry when all you have to do is read, or consult with someone who knows the scriptures.
Go and sin no more"
Homosexuality is a sin that leads one to have a reprobate mind...and God will give those OVER to a reprobate mind.
Not just any sin...
I wonder, though. The Bible clearly states that homosexuals are one of the few sinners that are given over to a reprobate mind. It is an unusually wicked sin, worthy of an "urban renewal project": Sodom and Gomorrah.
As well, We see no alcoholics or adulterers ganging up and going on "adulterers pride" or "alcoholics pride" parades, glorying in their lifestyle choice, like we see with homosexuals and their "gay pride" parades.
For some reason homosexuals seem to want to thrust their lifestyle into the faces of others unlike any other group.
Are you eliminating the Old Testament from the Bible, and St. Paul as well? You cannot select only certain parts of the Bible and expect to have any credibility. It's kind of like hustling stocks without revealing the full truth.
After reading Biblical scriptures, and what Jesus said and did, there no doubt exactly how Christ Jesus feels about homosexual relationships.
Paul and Peter, as well, both line up with Jesus's viewpoint concerning homosexuality.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. (Jesus IS the Word)
ALL Scripture is Inspired / God Breathed. It is the Inspired Word of God. Jesus is God and all the Scripture, both new and old, are His Words and His commands.
I hope this thread is of use to you.
Your part of it is.
Beware of any man who would tell you how Jesus Christ would think.
If David was quoting Jesus on the cross in Psalms 22, then Christ called the homosexual temple prostitutes surrounding him "dogs".
Not a happy situation when the Creator calls one a dog.
Only problem is that homosexuals do not lump what they do with other sins collectively referred to in the New Testament as "sexual immorality". That is similar to Bill Clinton's claim that oral sex is not sex . . . uh . . . depending on what your definition of "is" is.
First, two things.
I disagree with your premise. The Bible states over 1,100 times that it is the Word of God - that is, God speaking to man. Combine this with the fact that Jesus is God along with John's gospel which states that Jesus was with God in the beginning. This means that anything God does or says in the Old Testament is also done and said by Jesus. Therefore, there is no supposition in attributing Old Testament or New Testament views on homosexuality to Jesus.
Further, the position that during his earthly ministry Jesus commented on every sin is erroneous and misses His main message and purpose. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not state the law. By fulfilling the law and then dying in our place, he has satisfied God's wrath for the sins of the redeemed. As a result, we are imputed with His righteousness and God's justice and mercy are both perfectly maintained.
Having said all that, contrary to what many claim, Jesus did have something to say about homosexuality during his earthly ministry.
In Matthew 11:23-24, Jesus is commenting on the unbelief in Capernaum. The context of these verses is Jesus comparing two cities: Capernaum and Sodom. He is communicating to Capernaum the utter wickedness of their unbelief and he does this by comparing them to an extreme example - Sodom.
When viewed in the proper context, it is clear in these passages that not only does Jesus not approve of the sins of Sodom (homosexuality), he sees them as sufficiently vile so as to be used for his purposes in condemning Capernaum.
Here are the versus.
23 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."
I wouldn't go that far. We are all sinners, most of us ask forgiveness of those sins and do not repeat them, and there in lies the difference
True. Also the article left our the passage where the Bible stated "man shall not lay with man, nor woman with women......etc
I think the writer isn't trying to tell us how Jesus thinks. He is using scripture which tells us exactly what Jesus thinks.
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
9. The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Good doctrine; good Biblical reasoning.
ENOUGH WITH "GAY" ISSUES...AMERICANS ARE SICK OF IT!
Christ spoke and we have the Scriptures.
If one will not have Him as Savior, he will have Him as Judge.
"Whosoever shall fall upon that rock shall be broken but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (Lk. 20:18).
Don't take Christ's longsuffering for weakness. and don't think He chuckles at sodomy or any other sin.
FACT: Mohammad is a false prophet and allah is a false god.
PROOF: The wordwide hate and destruction at the direction of "allah". This is nothing but an idol worshipping cult whose sole aim is the death of anyone who does not convert and worldwide domination.
It can not be compared even rhetorically to Christianity.
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.
I think Jesus would say something like this:
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
But of course the fact that He said it won't make people believe it.
There is no "might have said" where Jesus is concerned. If you read the entire Bible, you will see that Jesus was present in the Old Testament and those words were His. Yes, His words that are highlighted in red are all about love, but so were His words from the beginning. It's all about the love for God.
God doesn't need us...we need Him.
In fact, I explicitly said that Christians are better off speaking where the Bible speaks and remaining silent where the Bible is silent.
Speaking where the Bible speaks certainly includes St. Paul. Why would I exclude him?
2 Corinthians 5:17-20
17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
18. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19. that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us.
We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God
You've gone to the scriptures and discovered Jesus had already said something on the subject, albeit inferrentially, but clearly targeted.
That is not the same as sitting down and saying to yourself "Now, let me pretend to be Jesus (God) and come up with something Jesus might say or do concerning the issue."