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Plane crashes on Beltway 8, all lanes closed (Gulfstream down near Houston highway)
local 2 broadcasting ^ | 11/21/05 | n/a

Posted on 11/22/2004 6:31:19 AM PST by Mamzelle

Gulfstream clips pole at toll booth--hits down close to major freeway


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 007; dallas; gulfstream; hobby; houston; monicaonbill; newmexico; nov22; planecrash; privatejet; smelltest; ufo
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1 posted on 11/22/2004 6:31:20 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

Beltway 8 Plane Crash Kills 3 Passengers

All Lanes Of Traffic Remain Closed On Toll Road Near Crash Site

POSTED: 6:57 am CST November 22, 2004
UPDATED: 8:08 am CST November 22, 2004

Three people have been confirmed dead after a private jet crashed 1½ miles south of Houston's Hobby Airport Monday, Local 2 reports.

Light Pole with South Toll Plaza In Background

Officials said the Gulfstream jet, carrying three passengers, crashed at about 6:30 a.m. between South Wayside and Cullen, just south of Highway 288.

Houston Fire Department District Chief Jack Williams said the twin-engine Gulfstream jet, arriving from Dallas Love Field, apparently clipped a tall light tower at a Beltway 8 toll plaza, shearing off a wing. He said the severed wing rests near the base of the tower.

Williams said firefighters found a trail of debris stretching about a thousand feet from the light tower into a field north of the toll road.

Gulfstream Jet

No other injuries have been reported.

Houston Airport System spokesman Roger Smith said the jet, which can carry up to 12 passengers, was approaching runway 4 at Hobby Airport when it went down.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Roland Herwig said Jet Place Incorporated of Tulsa, Okla., is the registered owner of the Gulfstream G-1159-A.

Tollway traffic has been diverted onto feeder roads and side streets. Westbound traffic has been shut down at Wayside while eastbound traffic has been closed at Cullen.

South Beltway 8 between South Wayside and Cullen, 7:30 a.m.

Drivers are being encouraged to find an alternative route around the area.

Officials with the Houston police and fire departments, and Harris County Precinct 7 emergency crews have been called to the scene.

For more information on this breaking story, stay tuned to Local 2 and Click2Houston.com.


2 posted on 11/22/2004 6:34:02 AM PST by Slicksadick (He's French. His hairdresser also grooms poodles. He's a rich woman's pet. That cover's it)
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To: Mamzelle

I wonder if the toll booth at least got their quarter.


3 posted on 11/22/2004 6:36:35 AM PST by theDentist (Proud Member of FreeRepublic 's "Pyjama-Hadeen")
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To: Slicksadick

Let me guess... the crash site is on the localizer of the approach but way below the glide slope...


4 posted on 11/22/2004 6:38:25 AM PST by pabianice
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To: theDentist

Quarter? Ha! That toll is like $2.00. i lived
in houston for a short while...


5 posted on 11/22/2004 6:39:04 AM PST by biggiepaul
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To: Mamzelle
Question for the pilots out there.
Do these kinds of jets use a radar altimeter or an air pressure sensitive type?
6 posted on 11/22/2004 6:39:56 AM PST by ProudVet77 (Just say NO to blue states.)
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To: Slicksadick
Oops. got the date wrong...but it's Monday. I'd think this'd be on TV by now, but I've been watching for it, and it's not on Fox. That's why I posted it... Gulfstreams don't go down every day, though single-engines and twins go down every day (and are increasingly landing on houses and travelled roads).

This is an Okie outfit, like the one that blew up the house in Lakeway, Austin.

7 posted on 11/22/2004 6:40:33 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: ProudVet77

I'd like to know how much this model Gulfstream would put you back...though jets are getting cheaper. You can get a Raytheon Premier for around $5M, and there are little jets in development for $1M. As many twin engine planes are between $500K and $1M--a small jet will become more attractive.


8 posted on 11/22/2004 6:43:24 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: Mamzelle
I don't believe it hit a pole! Everyone is saying that.

But to hit any pole, it would have had to hit the taller eclectic transmission lines that run parallel to the Beltway on the south side.

It was pea-soup fog, no way the pilot had any visual on the runway.

9 posted on 11/22/2004 6:44:15 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: TexasCajun
...electric transmission lines.
10 posted on 11/22/2004 6:45:47 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: TexasCajun

Since it shaved off a wing, which then caused the crash...looks like it hit the pole.


11 posted on 11/22/2004 6:45:54 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: Mamzelle

Looks like you can get a used one of these for under $10M.


12 posted on 11/22/2004 6:48:19 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: theDentist
a little more info
13 posted on 11/22/2004 6:50:53 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: Mamzelle
Since it shaved off a wing, which then caused the crash...looks like it hit the pole

Could not one of those taller towers have shaved off a wing?

If it hit a telephone pole without hitting those transmission lines, then it would have had to have flown under the wires, missing the towers? Those towers run adjacent to the beltway on the south side, how could it not have hit them prior to hitting something else? Debris hit cars on the beltway.

14 posted on 11/22/2004 6:54:57 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: nw_arizona_granny; Calpernia

Plane crash ping


15 posted on 11/22/2004 6:56:22 AM PST by Velveeta
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To: ProudVet77

Both.

Yes the location pretty much lines up with RWY 4 localizer.
4 is the preferred runway in low vis/low cigs condtions.


16 posted on 11/22/2004 6:56:40 AM PST by Truth'sfriend
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To: Mamzelle
I can see the FoxNews Alert:

Yehawwwww, airplane chase on Beltway 8!!!
17 posted on 11/22/2004 6:57:23 AM PST by TomGuy (America: Best friend or worst enemy. Choose wisely.)
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To: ProudVet77
I would guess that this bird had a radar altimeter so the pilot knew exactly where he was. Just speculation at this point but this could be another incident like the Thurmond Munson crash and one here in Lexington Ky which the pilots misjudged the thrust and unspooled the engines too much and could not recover. If you pull back thrust there is a lag time for them to power back up. Just a thought.
18 posted on 11/22/2004 6:59:13 AM PST by reagandemo (The battle is near are you ready for the sacrifice?)
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To: TexasCajun
Plane crashes en route to Hobby Airport

08:26 AM CST on Monday, November 22, 2004

From 11 News Staff Reports

A jet passenger plane with three people aboard crashed near the Beltway Monday morning between Mykawa and Cullen. Three fatalities has been confirmed. The crash debris has closed the Beltway in both directions in that area as well as the feeder roads between Cullen and Wayside.

KHOU-TV

Shown is the lightpole that the pilot apparently clipped prior to the crash in the 5400 block of the Sam Houston Tollway Monday morning.

Witnesses reported hearing a large boom around 6:15 a.m.

According to 11 News helicopter pilot Greg Walsh who is in the area, a Gulfstream jet plane crashed while on approach to runway 4 at Hobby Airport. The plane crashed in a field off the 5400 block of the Sam Houston Tollway. Roger Smith from the City of Houston Aviation Department said the plane was inbound from Dallas Love Field and had three people aboard when it crashed around 6:19 a.m.

"He took out the top half of a light pole into Hobby," said Walsh. "He should not have been that low. All I can see that's left is just the tail section. It's absolutely catastrophic."

Walsh said the pilot just missed a large set of powerlines in the area.

The crash site is in the 5400 block of the Sam Houston Tollway.

Jack Williams of the Houston Fire Department said, "we've got stuff strewn everywhere." The plane wreckage was still burning as of 7 a.m. and fire crews were out in the field to douse the blaze and search for victims.


19 posted on 11/22/2004 7:02:02 AM PST by deport (I've done a lot things.... seen a lot of things..... Most of which I don't remember.)
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To: reagandemo

I'm curious--assuming that this is a charter flight, with few passengers in a craft often used for charters...why so early in the AM?


20 posted on 11/22/2004 7:05:16 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: deport

21 posted on 11/22/2004 7:05:38 AM PST by deport (I've done a lot things.... seen a lot of things..... Most of which I don't remember.)
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To: deport

I saw the sheared light pole on the news. A tragedy for sure. Prayers for all the families.


22 posted on 11/22/2004 7:14:21 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: deport

23 posted on 11/22/2004 7:15:00 AM PST by deport (I've done a lot things.... seen a lot of things..... Most of which I don't remember.)
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To: TexasCajun

The light poles are veeerrry tall. Maybe 150 ft.


24 posted on 11/22/2004 7:21:54 AM PST by chuckles
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To: pabianice

100 foot altimiter errors usually put them down, on the localizer, but about 4 miles short of the threshold. Sounds like stupidity 101 here.


25 posted on 11/22/2004 7:23:32 AM PST by MindBender26 (Having your own XM177 E2 means never having to say you are sorry......)
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To: Aeronaut; JETDRVR; Arkie2

ping


26 posted on 11/22/2004 7:28:56 AM PST by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: MindBender26

Can you put that in english for us non-pilots?


27 posted on 11/22/2004 7:29:15 AM PST by shadowman99
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To: Mamzelle
"I'm curious--assuming that this is a charter flight, with few passengers in a craft often used for charters...why so early in the AM?"

Looks like they were flying in before the start of somebody's business day.

28 posted on 11/22/2004 7:32:48 AM PST by shadowman99
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To: deport

Looks pretty foggy.


29 posted on 11/22/2004 7:33:36 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: shadowman99; MindBender26

I believe MB26 is speculating pilot error.

I'll wait for the NTSB to do their thing.

Bookmarked.


30 posted on 11/22/2004 7:34:31 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: shadowman99

The altimeter in an aircraft reads the altitude based on the barometric pressure around it. You have to get the local barometric pressure from the airport and manually turn a knob on the altimeter to set that pressure, and then you will have your accurate altitude in feet above sea level. If you put the wrong barometric pressure into the altimeter, you'll have the wrong altitude reading.

Typically a higher-end plane like that Gulfstream will have a radar altimeter that reads height above ground, not height above sea level, and also will have radio equipment that let it conduct an accurate approach in bad conditions. But the equipment's only as useful as the guy behind the controls, and the vast majority of crashes in situations like this turn out to be pilot error of some kind.

}:-)4


31 posted on 11/22/2004 7:35:31 AM PST by Moose4 (I'm not white trash. I'm Caucasian recyclables.)
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To: MindBender26
Yeah, I agree. Sounds like classic loss of situational awareness.
I have flown this approach, IMC numerous times. The STAR takes you to a way point NE of the airport then, a radar vector which puts you on a down wind for 4. For departure spacing they keep arriving turbine traffic up at 6,000'. A lot of times they turn you in very close to the marker necessitating a very rapid rate of decent in order to capture the GS. Way too early to speculate but they just might have gone through the glide slope and "landed" short.
32 posted on 11/22/2004 7:36:13 AM PST by Truth'sfriend
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To: TexasCajun; Flyer; Eaker; humblegunner; thackney; dix

I live about 2 miles from the crash site...The picture in the news story shows the toll plaza looking east back towards my house...

We didn't hear it, but after a short while we got wiffs of fuel smell in the air, and heard numerous emergency vehicles running west towards the crash site...We're about a block south off the Beltway 8 road...

There is an electrical easement on the south side running parallel to BW8...They have not reported any transmission line damage as yet...If it had hit, our neighborhood probably would have been in the dark this morning at about 6:26am...

I agree its strange that that is not the case...Linear distance from the transmission lines in that area to the light poles at the toll plaza is only 150 feet at best...

It'll all come out in the wash though...

I figure the fog this morning played a big roll in the accident...I hear the plane left Dallas Love Field early this morning direct to Houston Hobby...

The air charts may or may not show the light towers and or the transmission lines...On those particular approaches to Hobby...I think there is an altitude requirement to show them on the charts as a hazard...They may not be high enough to display...I bet that point coems out in the investigation though...

Later,
Steve


33 posted on 11/22/2004 7:37:17 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans)
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To: GOP_1900AD

Looks pretty foggy.




And has been raining for several days now.... from a mist to flooding type downpours.....


34 posted on 11/22/2004 7:37:29 AM PST by deport (I've done a lot things.... seen a lot of things..... Most of which I don't remember.)
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To: Velveeta

bump


35 posted on 11/22/2004 7:37:54 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (Today, please pray for God's miracle, we are not going to make it without him.)
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To: reagandemo

Too far short of runway for a slow engine response accident. Those are uusally 50-400 feet from threshold.


36 posted on 11/22/2004 7:40:39 AM PST by MindBender26 (Having your own XM177 E2 means never having to say you are sorry......)
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To: Truth'sfriend

wow. 6000' hold near the airport. reminds me of O'Hare one night (passenger on L-1011) where we were stacked and corkscrewing down like a race track. it was pretty amazing looking out their and seeing everybody run that track down to landing.


37 posted on 11/22/2004 7:42:18 AM PST by F15Eagle
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To: deport

Beltway 8 Plane Crash Kills 3 Passengers

All Lanes Of Traffic Remain Closed On Toll Road Near Crash Site

POSTED: 6:57 am CST November 22, 2004
UPDATED: 9:24 am CST November 22, 2004

HOUSTON -- Three people have been confirmed dead after a private jet crashed 1½ miles south of Houston's Hobby Airport Monday, Local 2 reports. All lanes of traffic on the Sam Houston Tollway were shut down as emergency crews investigated and cleaned wreck from the accident.

Officials said the Gulfstream jet, carrying three passengers, crashed at 6:23 a.m. on the toll road between South Wayside and Cullen, just south of the toll plaza near Highway 288.

"We have accounted for three fatalities, we're confident that's all we're going to find," said Jack Williams, a district chief with the Houston Fire Department.

The identities of the three victims were not immediately known.

No other injuries have been reported. The cause of the crash is now under investigation.

Williams said the twin-engine Gulfstream jet, arriving from Dallas Love Field, apparently clipped a tall light tower at a Beltway 8 toll plaza, shearing off a wing. He said the severed wing rests near the base of the tower.

The district fire chief said firefighters found a trail of debris stretching about 1,000 feet from the light tower into a field north of the toll road.

Houston Airport System spokesman Roger Smith said the jet, which can carry up to 12 passengers, was approaching runway 4 at Hobby Airport when it went down.

Weather officials said there was no rain in the area but a dense fog blanketed most of the area where the crash occurred.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Roland Herwig said flight operations at Hobby were not affected by the crash.

Jet Place Incorporated of Tulsa, Okla., is the registered owner of the Gulfstream G-1159-A, according to Herwig.

Robert Randall, operations manager with Jet Place, would not name the downed flight's crew but said they were two male pilots and a female flight attendant. The jet was en route to Houston to pick up passengers, but Randall did not say who the passengers were or where the jet was headed afterward.

Randall said the private company has a fleet of 18 jets and employs about 150 people.

Tollway traffic has been diverted onto feeder roads and side streets. Westbound traffic has been shut down at Wayside while eastbound traffic has been closed at Cullen.

Drivers are being encouraged to find an alternative route around the area.

Officials with the Houston police and fire departments, and Harris County Precinct 7 emergency crews have been called to the scene.


38 posted on 11/22/2004 7:42:32 AM PST by michigander (The Constitution only guarantees the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.)
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To: shadowman99
Yes, it turns out they were meeting passengers in Houston...explains the early, dark, foggy flight in...

link, all three dead were staff. Two pilots, one attendant.

39 posted on 11/22/2004 7:43:54 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: Slicksadick

Anyone on board that is connected to the Clintons?


40 posted on 11/22/2004 7:44:04 AM PST by Flint
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To: TexasCajun
Nah, maybe you had it right the first time. Eclectic transmission lines carry power from many sources: nuke, wind, solar, oil, gas, coal, biomass. They don't discriminate but rather carry it all. At least that's what the press release from the Green Utopia Power and Light Co. said.
41 posted on 11/22/2004 7:44:06 AM PST by NonValueAdded ("We are in the process of allowing them to self-actualise" LtC. Rainey, Fallujah, 11/04)
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To: MindBender26
"Too far short of runway for a slow engine response accident. Those are usually 50-400 feet from threshold." I disagree. That's not what happened here in Lexington. As mentioned by a previous poster Traffic Control has a pilot make a steep decent on final approach after turn to base. Might have over reacted and not paid attention. Too early to speculate. Prayers for the families.
42 posted on 11/22/2004 7:46:12 AM PST by reagandemo (The battle is near are you ready for the sacrifice?)
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To: NonValueAdded; Flyer; Eaker; humblegunner; thackney; dix

"Green Utopia Power and Light Co."

I thought it was (HL&P) Houston Looting and Plundering???

Which is now Reliant, which is now CenterPoint Energy...

I could never keep up...


43 posted on 11/22/2004 7:48:01 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans)
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To: deport
"He should not have been that low."

NTSB should hire this guy.

44 posted on 11/22/2004 7:50:06 AM PST by Starrgaizr
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To: stevie_d_64
I didn't hear any power outage and they are lots of folks on the ground surveying the site.

The freeper pilots will have to give us some insight on an instrument landing since there is not way the pilot had a visual on the runway. The report said the airport was about 1.5 miles from the crash site. Seems a bit further to me, maybe 3-5 miles.

45 posted on 11/22/2004 7:52:43 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: Flint

I did make the assumption that passengers could have been VIPs. Ain't cheap to rent a Gulfstream, with a staff of three.


46 posted on 11/22/2004 7:55:55 AM PST by Mamzelle (Nov 3--Psalm One...Blessed is the man...!)
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To: Starrgaizr

No kidding. :)


47 posted on 11/22/2004 7:56:02 AM PST by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (More sweat in peace. Less blood in war.)
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To: Slicksadick
Holy Sh!t. There will probably be heavy repercussions. Those Gulfstreams only carry bigwigs.


BUMP

48 posted on 11/22/2004 7:56:27 AM PST by tm22721 (In fac they)
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To: Truth'sfriend
Thanks for insight.

I get very little "hard" IFR these days. I turned 60 this year, only get about 100 yrs a year and here in Orlando, it's usually CAVU or towering cumulobumpus, so you either get great WX or stay on ground.

Now, as an old f-rt, won't fly anything less an 400 and 1/2 and I want a nice long approach, at least OM inbound to get set up on final, get everything hanging, etc. None of the old getting turned in at the MM!

Never flew into Hobby (except on SWA), but used to love the River Approach to DCA in a 310. Wind your way down the Potomac, then a hard right when you could see the rabbit lights for 15 or 18, full flaps and flare NOW! Did it in the right seat in an Electra once, at 200 kts.... Loads of pucker fun.......

Ah, when we were young.....
49 posted on 11/22/2004 7:56:29 AM PST by MindBender26 (Having your own XM177 E2 means never having to say you are sorry......)
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To: TexasCajun

An instrument approach localizer will give left-right and usually glide-slope (altitude) guidance. But if the pilot dialed in the wrong ambient atmospheric pressure the altimeter might have given a conflicting reading. So if the plan and focus was to cross a designated marker point x miles from the runway threshold at altitude y to join that localizer beam, the pilot might have thought he/she was at y when actually at y-200, etc.


50 posted on 11/22/2004 7:58:13 AM PST by Starrgaizr
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