Posted on 11/26/2004 10:09:05 PM PST by CHARLITE
Yes, it is a different perspective.
Wanting to convert is fine. Wanting to kill them all is not.
It doesn't get any clearer than that. Unfortunately our leaders and the media refuse to see it that way. Remember how quickly President Bush was forced to clarify his remarks when he,IMO, let slip the word "crusade" in a briefing shortly after 9/11? I'll doubt anyone who doesn't follow politics even remembers that one. He was stating the truth, but sometimes the truth is too much for a people to digest. Perhaps OBL is the incarnate for the 'beginning of the end of the world'. Ask yourself, how many European countries have been infiltrated by radical Muslims already?Hmmm? France,Holland,Denmark, heck there are 1.6 million people who call themselves the Muslims in Britain alone.
No one is catagorized because they have a different opinion. People can differ in opinion without making prejudiced, bigoted remarks. Anger is understandable. I'm angry at the terrorists.
The posters are adults. I have to assume they know what they're saying. If they feel they've spoken in haste or error or out of emotion before thinking, they are free to apologize or correct their statements.
(don't hold your breath)
Death To all Islamofascist terrorists ~ Bump!
Killing innocents is not all right. And fighting an enemy that is driven by irrational hatred cannot be defeated if we are also infected by that hatred.
In my opinion, the fight is not with the people of Islam but with a religion and ideology that is, at its root, dangerous. When its adherents are lukewarm, they are not particularly different than anyone in western culture.
But when moderates encounter imams who draw them to the core of the religion, a change occurs. When these lukewarm believers are ignited, they become explosive.
I don't mean that all moderates become fanatics when lead by an inflammatory imam. But some do become fanatical and the others seem to be willing to become apologists or at the least enablers for the fanatics in their midst.
Of course. Fanatics in any religion can be dangerous.
Here's a couple of articles you should find interesting by Dr. Jasser in Arizona.......
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1250526/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1161884/posts
Baloney...Let me know when fanatically devout Catholics or Methodists or Jews kill 3,000 innocent civilians (and actually hoped for more) in an act of terrorism.
Moderates around the world had better leap forward or face a massive religious war...one started by members of their religion.
There is a war and as you read on this forum, opinion vary widely...some are moderate, some are extreme...
...but, this is not a possible war...this is WAR.
Comments from moderate Muslims have been pathetically inadequate...
and the visions of Muslims dancing in the streets when the WTC Towers were destroyed will never be forgotten.
Acts of terrorism by fanatics in different religions occur fairly frequently.(it has been quiet in N.Ireland lately) Not on the same scale as 9/11 was, but that was also unexpectedly horrific, as no one could have predicted that the buildings would collapse.
And what of the muslims who stood in the streets with candles after 9/11?
Did the media ever cover them?
Oh brother...that is too lame to merit a response.
Try the Democratic Underground...I think you'll find a sympathic audience.
"that is too lame to merit a response."
It isn't lame. It's a fact. That's why there was a long investigation into trying to determine how it happened.
I've never been to DU and I'm sure I wouldn't fit in.
You'd fit in fine.
You're new here.
You don't know me and haven't read my posts for the past yr and 8 months.
Muslims are individuals and may follow the Koran as Christians may follow the Bible...(they stress some verses more than others and ignore some)
You'll find answers to your 9/11 and terrorism questions here.....
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/bin/site/wrappers/splash.asp
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/718337/posts
http://www.aicongress.org/index.htm
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/
http://www.rayhawk.com/classics/matusa/aboutus.html
http://www.apaam.org/index.html
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_37_18/ai_92589581
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
However, lets not forget Muslims may lie -- taquiya, or takeyya, the Islamic principle of lying for the sake of Allah.
Here is what I found in regard to these so called "Moderates":
American Muslim Alliance and American Muslim Council
AMC on terrorism: "We are all supporters of Hamas! Allahu Akhbar! ... I am also a supporter of Hezbollah" (AMC founder Abdurahman Alamoudi, Associated Press, Jan. 9, 2002).
AMC on the United States: "I think if we were outside this country, we can say, 'Oh, Allah, destroy America,' but once we are here, our mission in this country is to change it. There is no way for Muslims to be violent in America, no way. We have other means to do it. You can be violent anywhere else but in America" (Alamoudi to Islamic Association of Palestine, Chicago, Dec. 29, 1996).
AMC on Hamas: "Hamas is not a terrorist group. ... I have followed the good work of Hamas. ... They have a wing that is a violent wing. They had to resort to some kind of violence" (Alamoudi, National Press Club, Nov. 22, 1994).
AMC on al-Qaeda: "They are involved in a resistance movement" (Vickers, MSNBC's Hardball With Chris Matthews, June 27, 2002 ).
1998, the American Muslim Council, the American Muslim Alliance and the Council on American-Islamic Relations sponsored a rally at Brooklyn College in New York City, New York where militant speakers urged upon the audience the path of Jihad and described Jews as "pigs and monkeys". The following year these same groups, together with the Muslim Public Affairs Council, sponsored a rally in Santa Clara, California where one speaker called for the murder of Jews.
Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ...... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar Ahmad
"I am in support of the Hamas movement." -Nihad Awad
" I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future... But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education." -Ibrahim Hooper
"CAIR does not support these groups publicly." (when asked about CAIR's record of supporting Hamas, Hezbullah and other official terrorist groups) -Ibrahim Hooper
"I bring to you salaams and greetings from the Mujahadeen at CAIR." (Statement made during a Washington D.C. rally)
"Anyone over 18 is automatically inducted into the service and they are all reserves. Therefore, Hamas, in my opinion, looks at them as part of the military." -Ghazi Khankan
Since well before 9/11, CAIR and other organizations have alleged to speak on behalf of Americas peaceful, moderate Muslims, while simultaneously lending support and funds to terrorist causes.
CAIR is a direct outgrowth of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP). According to Oliver Revell, the FBI's former associate director of Counter-IntelligenceOperations, the IAP is an organization that has directly supported [the Palestinian terror group] Hamas' military goals.
At the Islamic Association of Palestine's third annual convention in Chicago in November 1999, CAIR President Omar Ahmad gave a speech at a youth session praising suicide bombers who "kill themselves for Islam." "Fighting for freedom, fighting for Islam that is not suicide. They kill themselves for Islam".
Islamic Society of North America
According to terrorism expert Steve Emerson, ISNA:
* has held fundraisers for terrorists (e.g., after Hamas leader Musa Marzuk was arrested, it raised money for his defense, claiming he was innocent and not connected to terrorism)
* has condemned US seizure of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad assets in the United States after 9/11
* has consistently sponsored speakers at their conferences that defend Islamic terrorists. Recently, a leader denied in an interview with an NBC affiliate that ISNA took any Saudi money but that was a brazen lie as evidenced by a recording of an ISNA conference in which it was revealed that money came from Saudi Arabia.
"ISNA," says Emerson, "is a radical group hiding under a false veneer of moderation."
Islamic Circle of North America
Regarding the Universal Heritage Foundation's patron organization, the ICNA [Islamic Circle of North America] counter terrorism expert Steven Emerson stated that: 'The ICNA’s hatred of the Jews is so fierce that it taunted them with a repetition of what Hitler did to them.' In his book - American Jihad - Emerson writes that, 'The ICNA openly supports militant Islamic fundamentalist organizations, praises terror attacks, issues incendiary attacks on western values and policies, and supports the imposition of Sharia [Islamic code of law].
AMPAC (on bin Laden being responsible for 9/11)
The Sharî'ah demands proof. There are already religious rulings from the highest authorities in the Muslim world, such as the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, condemning the terrorist attacks and calling for the perpetrators to be punished. All that remains is the proof linking these crimes to Bin Laden.
To make demands on Afghanistan without showing proof is just bullying. To put Afghanistan in the cross hairs without showing proof is vigilantism. To pull the trigger is murder. -Amir Butler
Canadian Society of Muslims
Critics say moderation within the Muslim community is only a facade concealing a bitter emnity towards western liberal, pluralist society and supporting militant violence internationally.
"There's certainly some evidence that some of them - perhaps not all of them - have a different story to tell when they're speaking not in English, usually Arabic," says retired Canadian diplomat Martin Collacott.
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