Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

How Much Time Is Left? (The Parallel Views Of Christians & Seculars)
LeaderU Online ^ | Nov. 24, 2004 | Dr. John Stoll, Ph.D

Posted on 11/29/2004 6:48:09 AM PST by Lindykim

HOW MUCH TIME IS LEFT? John H. Stoll, Ph.D. Executive Director, ASK, Inc.

Dr. John H. Stoll is Executive Director of A.S.K., Inc., a professional counseling and Bible teaching organization. Over the past 45 years he has been a professor in five Christian Colleges/Seminaries, as both a Theologian and Marriage and Family Therapist. For the past 18 years he has been the Director of a Christian Psychological Clinic in Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN. A complete resume is available.  

Regardless of whether a person is a Christian or not, it seems as if the question of how much time is left in the world is on the mind. To the Christian the question is, when will Christ return to take Christians home to heaven? To the person of the world, there is the question of the world blowing up, and the annihilation of mankind. Which view is right, and what does the future portend?

Recently, there were two views stated in print that gave a time period of about five years. Chuck Colson, in one of his columns, noted that it seemed to him that Christians every where sense the soon return of the Lord Jesus Christ, because of all that is happening in the world. He was not setting any date for Christ's return, but felt that the church had about five years before our evangelizing may be over.

This could be because of Christ's coming, or it could be that the world will stop the church from carrying out its mandate from God. The other view came from the book, Megatrends, in which the author felt that the world had about five years left to straighten out its problems, or face a world wide catastrophe. He did not delineate what that might be, but warned people of an impending world wide cataclysm of sorts.

Though no one knows the future, for the Christian it is comforting to have the knowledge of what the Bible says concerning Christ's coming and the end of the world. Since the Old Testament stated over 330 prophecies concerning His first coming, all of which were perfectly fulfilled, we can with confidence trust what He had to say relative to His coming again. Christ has established His credibility with mankind.

In John 14:3, Christ stated that He would come again. Then in Mark 13:31,32 He noted that no one knows when God will send Christ back to earth. However, He did give indicators as to the times immediately preceding His return, to guide us in our anticipation, as well as a warning to get ready for His coming again.

Matthew 24 outlines to us God's program for the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. When the Disciples asked Him what the signs would be, He stated that there would be wars, earthquakes, famines, etc. immediately preceding His return. History has shown that mankind has experienced all these things, but Christ illustrated the immediacy by utilizing an analogy in saying that these would be the "birth pangs of sorrows". When a woman is about to give birth, she experiences birth pains, at various intervals, but when the pains are about a minute apart, she knows the birth is imminent. So, as we see the world reeling from one catastrophe to another constantly, it seems as if the pains of the world are about a minute apart. We live from disaster to disaster on a daily basis. In Luke 21:28 Christ pointed out that when these things begin to come to pass, the Christian should look for His coming again.

Another indicator of His return, has been the regathering of the people of Israel into a nation. It has been over forty years since that has become a reality, and Christ pointed out in Matt. 24:32-34 that the generation that witnesses all these indicators would not pass before God concludes all things in judgment and righteousness. Since a generation is approximately forty-fifty years, are we living at the end of time? Only God knows, but it behooves us to be ready and waiting His return. How much time is left, is according to God's program for His children and the world. He is in sovereign control.

© Copyright 1996-2004 by John H. Stoll.


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: christians; endtimes; prophecy; secondcoming
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-133 next last
Although Stoll's commentary piece is now over 10 years old and the 5 year time frame has obviously come and gone, the underlying message, which is that mankind senses a forthcoming apocalyptic event, still remains unchanged. Apocalyptic, it seems to me is an appropriate term in consideration of the increasing growth of dementedly hate-charged paranoia, delusion, and pathology being exhibited by the Left, not just here in America, but throughout various world arenas. Leftists are maddened not just by hatred, but by fear of the unknown.
1 posted on 11/29/2004 6:48:09 AM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ItsOurTimeNow; little jeremiah

ping

This is too interesting for you to miss it.


2 posted on 11/29/2004 6:49:27 AM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: weenie

Ping for later read.


3 posted on 11/29/2004 7:07:35 AM PST by weenie (Islam is as "dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog." -- Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

> Since the Old Testament stated over 330 prophecies concerning His first coming, all of which were perfectly fulfilled, we can with confidence trust what He had to say relative to His coming again. Christ has established His credibility with mankind.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

175 false Biblical prophesies.


4 posted on 11/29/2004 7:48:51 AM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
Ummm ... I'm no expert but a very quick perusal of your link shows that the arguments cited by the "false prophecies" are very easy to refute. The claims are all superficial, reveal little unified understanding of the Bible, and were clearly written not by a "skeptic," which implies an open mind, but one dedicated to "disprove" Christian faith.

You don't need to reply ... I'm not trying to start a heated dialogue here.

5 posted on 11/29/2004 8:57:52 AM PST by tom h
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam

Calling oneself a skeptic does not connote an ability to reason logically, to analyze, or deduce rationally, most especially when said 'skeptic' is not motivated by an honest seeking of truth but instead by a need to destroy.
I venture to say that your 'skeptic' is a 'student' of Marcuse's "critical theory", which when stripped of its high-sounding facade, stands revealed as nothing more than advice to small-minded people on how to commit mindless, destructive criticism.








6 posted on 11/29/2004 9:00:58 AM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: tom h

I see that you and I are of a mind concerning the so-called 'skeptic'. Imo, it was nothing but purile pablum produced for those who enjoy such stuff.


7 posted on 11/29/2004 9:04:39 AM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

> it was nothing but purile pablum produced for those who enjoy such stuff

What, the Biblical prohesies? I'd agree. "Tyre is gonna be wiped out Real Soon Now!" Then sometime later, a major character goes to Tyre, a city supposed to have been wiped out.

Eh...


8 posted on 11/29/2004 9:07:44 AM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam

It's a common trait of those who don't think for themselves to 'steal' the words of those who do think for themselves.


9 posted on 11/29/2004 9:15:00 AM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

> It's a common trait of those who don't think for themselves to 'steal' the words of those who do think for themselves.

Non sequitur.

And I notice you didn't even come close to addressing the point...


10 posted on 11/29/2004 9:18:41 AM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam; Lindykim

My friend, if the comments make you hostile, then reply to me, not the lady, as I am the one who started this exchange.


11 posted on 11/29/2004 10:21:02 AM PST by tom h
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: tom h

> if the comments make you hostile

Another non sequitur. Why do you see disagreement as hostility?


12 posted on 11/29/2004 10:39:33 AM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
"Another non sequitur. Why do you see disagreement as hostility?"

Tart responses that don't respect a poster's words and are more aggressive than ordinary debate are hostile. Also, you are using non sequitur far too frequently and incorrectly. You are trying to label responders to your email as dumb enough to not make logical arguments. In cyberspace this is arrogance and the equivalent of talking so loudly as to drown them out.

If you want to prolong this discussion, perhaps you will look more deeply into the URL you cite and prove to both the lady and I why why we are wrong. And, use your thesaurus to seek out another word that will make your retorts sound more thoughtful.

13 posted on 11/29/2004 11:03:08 AM PST by tom h
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: tom h

> perhaps you will look more deeply into the URL you cite and prove to both the lady and I why why we are wrong.

Ahem: already done. Was Tyre destroyed as the Bible said it would be, or not?


14 posted on 11/29/2004 11:21:39 AM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
No, you haven't looked any more deeply into the matter. Do you know youself? I told you early on that I am not an expert. But rather than going to number 75 on the website, let's start with #1:

Does Adam die? Yes, he does -- spiritually. The fact of spiritual death is documented throughout scripture. Adam's sin results in original sin for all mankind, and we are all "dead" spiritually until we accept Christ and achieve salvation. No Bible errancy here.

Was Cain a fugitive and vagabond, in spite of his having a family? Yes he was, from his family and from God. This one was easy.

Did God fail to give Abraham and his descendants the promised land? No -- there's lots of time left in history. One is awfully arrogant to say that national borders will always stay the same.

As for the destruction of Tyre -- well, a quick perusal of online resources shows that it was conquered and destroyed by both Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander:

"Tyre fell to the Neo-Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar in 572 BC. On this occasion the city withstood a 13 year siege before it fell; in 332 BC there was another remarkable siege by Alexander the Great who finally succeeded by building a causeway to the island from the mainland"

So now, my friend, you have shown that you don't know what you're talking about. The city of Tyre does not exist anymore. Sounds like it is desolate.

Ahem ...

15 posted on 11/29/2004 12:08:52 PM PST by tom h
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: tom h; orionblamblam

Tell us orion, are you an evolutionist? If so {or even if not}, relate to us if you will, your 'creation story'.


16 posted on 11/29/2004 12:20:50 PM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim; orionblamblam

Lindy, I answered Orion in post #15. I think he is one of those disgruntled techies who thinks logic rules the universe. I am about ready to cease the discussion with him and I advise you to do likewise.

God bless --


17 posted on 11/29/2004 12:29:23 PM PST by tom h
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: tom h

> Does Adam die? Yes, he does

Did Adam ever exist? Evidence, please.

> Was Cain a fugitive and vagabond

Did Cain ever exist? Evidence, please.

> As for the destruction of Tyre -- well, a quick perusal of online resources shows that it was conquered and destroyed by both Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander:

"Tyre fell to the Neo-Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar in 572 BC. On this occasion the city withstood a 13 year siege before it fell; in 332 BC there was another remarkable siege by Alexander the Great who finally succeeded by building a causeway to the island from the mainland"


I'll note for the record that your quote in way way says that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre.

> The city of Tyre does not exist anymore. Sounds like it is desolate.

*REALLY*.
"About 83 km south of Beirut, Tyre is the fourth largest city of Lebanon." http://tyros.leb.net/tyre/


18 posted on 11/29/2004 12:53:06 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

> Tell us orion, are you an evolutionist?

I can see the result of cause and effect, yes.

> relate to us if you will, your 'creation story'.

One night in the spring of 1969, my mom and dad... well, that's actually as much information as I have on that. I do admit to taking it on faith that I didn't Poof into existence as the Creationists woudl ahve it.


19 posted on 11/29/2004 12:55:15 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: tom h

> I think he is one of those disgruntled techies who thinks logic rules the universe.

"Gosh, how horrid... someone who actually believes that the universe can be understood! GASP! Hide the children! They might *learn* something!!!!!!"


20 posted on 11/29/2004 12:57:02 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam

Your heart and mind are frozen in your bias....Get ahold of a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance and you'll quickly learn that "Skeptics" simply have shut the door on biblical analysis.

I can refute every contention in your "skeptics" bible. Do your homework.


21 posted on 11/29/2004 1:02:22 PM PST by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam

Its funny cause its true.


22 posted on 11/29/2004 1:02:39 PM PST by notigar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Halgr

> Your heart and mind are frozen in your bias....

Blah, blah, blah. That line doesn't work when treehuggin' hippies use it on me; it doesn't work when Hari Krishnas use it on me; it doesn't work when Hillarycare pushers use it on me. What works on me are FACTS, not touchy-feely weirdness.

> I can refute every contention in your "skeptics" bible.

I don't have a skeptics bible. In fact, there is no such thing as a "skeptics bible."

PS: Apparetnly, Tyre is a reasonably nice tourist attraction, not a desolate wasteland. And did Solomons kingdom last forever? Has the Nile ever dried up? HAs Babylon remained an abandoned wastelend, with nary an Arabian pitching a tent there? What with all the satyrs and dragons in Babylon I wouldn't be surprised, but I would've expected an article or two in the National Geographic about those critters.

But oh, wait, lemme guess: those things that are clearly goofy are *parable*. Riiiight.


23 posted on 11/29/2004 1:13:53 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
I'll note for the record that your quote in way way says that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre.

For the record, and as was the case of many ancient cities, there were two Tyres. The original Tyre stood on the mainland, and was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. However, the inhabitants used the ships in port to escape the seige and move themselves and their treasures out to an island right off the coast. As a result, Nebuchadnezzar's armies didn't make enough booty to make the conquest worth it, so he moved on to conquer Egypt in order to pay his men (which is alluded to in Ezekiel 29:18-19).

A few centuries later, the inhabitants had rebuilt a new Tyre on that island. When Alexander the Great showed up, Tyre thought itself safe since he had no fleet, but he simply had his men use the bricks and stones of the ruins of old Tyre to build a causeway out to the island, which then fell to him easily. This fulfilled both Ezekiel's prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed "in the midst of the sea" (Ezk. 27:32--and bear in mind that when Ezekiel penned those words, Tyre was still on the mainland), as well that Tyre would become "like the top of a rock" (i.e. barren, flat) and "a place for spreading nets" (26:4-5 and 14)--today, the mainland Tyre is a completely bald rock and is a place where the fishermen of a nearby village named Sur come to spread out their nets to dry them. Subsequent attempts to rebuild the city to its former glory were done in by the Romans and Muslims, IIRC.

Now notice that in chapter 26, while certain acts are acribed to Nebuchadnezzar and his armies (vv. 7-12), the Lord says that He, not the king of Babylon, will ultimately make Tyre "like the top of a rock." Furthermore, He states how in v. 3: "Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will cause many nations to come up against you, as the sea causes its waves to come up." In other words, not just Babylon, but a succession of invading nations would be responsible for demolishing Tyre--the imagery is that of a sand castle done in by repeated waves washing over it instead of just one.

Now regarding your other pat answers, if you're going to charge that the Bible's prophecies of Adam's death and Cain's banishment were false, you have to accept for the sake of argument that Adam and Cain existed. If you don't--hey, that's your problem. But to say that they never existed and therefore the prophecies about them are false is a nonsensical argument.

24 posted on 11/29/2004 1:30:09 PM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
Apparetnly, Tyre is a reasonably nice tourist attraction, not a desolate wasteland.

Not exactly. The village of Sur, which I mentioned in my previous post, likes to style itself "Tyre" as a way of attracting the tourists and making a living, but the actual locations of both Tyres are gone to this day.

25 posted on 11/29/2004 1:31:43 PM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Buggman

> The original Tyre stood on the mainland, and was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

Sources seem to disagree on that.

>if you're going to charge that the Bible's prophecies of Adam's death and Cain's banishment were false, you have to accept for the sake of argument that Adam and Cain existed.

Uh... no. If I make a prophesy that Xander Vlandenwhoopenstein will tomorrow be run down by a sex-crazed purple bull elephant in downtown Sioux City, Iowa... it's still a false prophesy if Xander Vlandenwhoopenstein doesn't exist. It's either true of false, and if it ain't true...

> to say that they never existed and therefore the prophecies about them are false is a nonsensical argument.

Your logic is 180 degrees off course.


26 posted on 11/29/2004 1:44:37 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
"175 false Biblical prophesies."

I glanced at that listing and it's BS. I'll debunk the first few. Many of these have to do with the fact that the skeptics can't distinquish between promises made to an individual and his descendants.

1. God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

They did die. Adam and Eve suffered immediate spiritual death. They also suffered physical death and all men with the exception of two have died within 1000 years. Before that they were immortal. The Bible says a day with the Lord is as a 1000 years. The oldest Methusaleh lived 969 years. If you want to press the case that God should have terminated you on day 1, good luck with that.

As a punishment for killing Abel, God says Cain will be "a fugitive and a vagabond." Yet in just a few verses (4:16-17) Cain will settle down, marry, have a son, and build a city. This is not the activity one would expect from a fugitive and a vagabond. 4:12

While Cain did established a city, it doesn't say that he was never a fugitive and a vagabond. Cain immediately appealed to the Lord to lessen his punishment because it was greater than Cain could bear.

God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

It is clear that these prophesies were understood to be given to their decendants.

How long was the Egyptian captivity? This verse says 400 years, but Ex.12:40 and Gal.3:17 say 430 years. 15:13

The issue here is that they are nitpicking about 400 verses 430 years. It's clear that Abram's decendants were afflicted 400 years. It doesn't make the prophecy untrue if there was an extra 30 in there.

"In the fourth generation they [Abraham's descendants] shall come hither again." But, if we count Abraham, then their return occurred after seven generations: Abraham, Issac (Gen.21:1-3), Jacob (Gen.25:19-26), Levi (Gen.35:22-23), Kohath (Ex.6:16), Amramn (Ex.6:18), and Moses (Ex.6:20). 15:16

They didn't go into slavery in Abraham's generation. That didn't occur until Jacob.

God promises Abram's descendants the land of Canaan from the Nile to the Euphrates. But according to Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13 God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 15:18

It's clear that the Lord did give Abraham's decendants the land of Canaan. But it is also clear from Leviticus that Israel was subject to exile if they didn't obey God. Israel's relatively recent rebirth is a testament to God continuing to fulfill that prophecy.

God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority. 26:4

The promise was made to Abraham not to Isaac. And Abraham in an act of little faith, slept with Sarah's servant and conceived Ishmael. Thus the promise was split. Ishmael became as numerous as the stars but the covenant was with Isaac.

Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

God renames Jacob twice (32:28, 35:10 ). God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible continues to call him Jacob anyway (47:28-29). And even God himself calls him Jacob in 46:2. 32:28, 35:10

And yet Jacob and his descendants are indeed known as Israel.

God calls Jacob Jacob, though he said in Gen.32:28 and 35:10 that he would no longer be called Jacob but Israel. 46:2

Repeat

The tribe of Judah will reign "until Shiloh," but Israel's first king (Saul) was from the tribe of Benjamin (Acts 13:21), and most of the time after this prophecy there was no king at all. 49:10 God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt (Gen.47:28-29) 46:3

The problem here is that the skeptic assumed Judahs reign began immediately and that it was Jacob himself and not the great nation that God would make Jacob into (46:2)that would be brought back safely. God did bring Israel (Jacob) back from Egypt and restore them to their land, and eventually Judah did reign, and while Judah's reigh was not entirely contiguous, it can still be said that the scepter did not depart from the house of Judah until Shiloh.

Contrary to the prophecy in 48:21, Joseph died in Egypt, not Israel. Gen.50:24

Go back to Gen 46:2-3 to see that the prophecy was about the nation Jacob would become not Jacob himself.

My guess is that all 175 are just like this. Incomplete Bible understanding. Either the skeptic misunderstood the prophecy or didn't realize that it was in fact fulfilled, or it's a prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled yet.

27 posted on 11/29/2004 2:36:21 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
And where is Tyre today?

Tyre Prophecy

Fortunately the Lord isn't quick to execute wrath or I dare say that well deserved judgement would have already befallen both of us.

28 posted on 11/29/2004 2:52:56 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

Come quickly Lord Jesus.


29 posted on 11/29/2004 3:12:29 PM PST by Delbert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
Did Adam ever exist? Evidence, please

I present myself as Exhibit 1.

Did Cain ever exist? Evidence, please.

The only evidence left is that of the works of Moses who was confirmed by God to be a prophet in front of millions by huge miracles.

The city of Tyre does not exist anymore. ...."About 83 km south of Beirut, Tyre is the fourth largest city of Lebanon."

You left out Tyre, NY and Tyre, MI. My understanding is that modern Tyre in Lebanon is not built where the old city stood. The old location is still used to spread fishing nets.

30 posted on 11/29/2004 3:20:35 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam

You're an evoutionist but you don't know your 'creation story'?
If my past debates with evolutionists are an indicator, then either (a) you have no idea what it is, or (b) you do know but are too embarrassed to tell it {not that I blame you for that}.
So which is it? (A) or (B)?



31 posted on 11/29/2004 3:44:16 PM PST by Lindykim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

>> Did Adam ever exist? Evidence, please

> I present myself as Exhibit 1.

You present a recent example of evolution as evidence of the existence of a mythological character???


32 posted on 11/29/2004 4:02:58 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

> You're an evoutionist but you don't know your 'creation story'?


I've never asked my parents for details on my creation. They were, presumably, the only ones there at the time.


33 posted on 11/29/2004 4:03:50 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim

No doubt about it, HE is coming back soon. Many reasons make this true. A major one is Israel becoming a state. THAT is a definitive sign. Other signs mentioned in the Bible are making the headlines EVERY day.


34 posted on 11/29/2004 4:05:21 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> And where is Tyre today?

A place easily findable in Lebanon. Lots of pictures of old ruins on the net... clearly, it was not a place scraped down to the bedrock, as incorrecctly prophesied.

And is Babylon still the nuclear wasteland devoid of all life save satyrs and dragons that the Bible prophesied?

> Fortunately the Lord isn't quick to execute wrath

Well, not anymore. According to the Old Testament, anyone displaying any tendencies to think democratically would be wiped out lickety-split, along with a few tens of thousands of people nearby.


35 posted on 11/29/2004 4:08:16 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> Either the skeptic misunderstood the prophecy or didn't realize that it was in fact fulfilled, or it's a prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled yet.

Ah, yes, my favorite excuse of the prophet, soothsayer and doomsayers: "Well, it hasn't happened *yet.*"


36 posted on 11/29/2004 4:10:21 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
"You present a recent example of evolution as evidence of the existence of a mythological character???"

NO, I present a direct descendant of Adam as evidence of Adam's existence.

37 posted on 11/29/2004 4:12:39 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
"Ah, yes, my favorite excuse of the prophet, soothsayer and doomsayers: "Well, it hasn't happened *yet.*"

There are some prophecies that deal with the end of this age and the next, that clearly haven't happened yet. I suspect that makes up some of the 175 in your list.

Had some of them happened such as the destruction of earth with fire and the final judgement, we wouldn't be here talking about them. You'd be hot-footing it across Hell, cursing yourself for not listening to DannyTN. And I'd probably be asking stupid questions like "Is there sex here in heaven, what happened to my dogs when they died, and is Orion really going to roast forever".

38 posted on 11/29/2004 4:23:12 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
"175 false Biblical prophesies."

More like '175 Bad Bible Interpretations' or '175 Examples of Skeptic Ignorance'.

Any ancient literary work, including the Bible, should be interpreted according to it's historical and literary context. The analysis, (and I use that term loosely), you provide on these prophesies do not appear to consider either the historical or literary context. Furthermore, the list is the same old stuff that has long been answered by scholars.
39 posted on 11/29/2004 4:28:32 PM PST by Busywhiskers (You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> NO, I present a direct descendant of Adam as evidence of Adam's existence.

And who's to say you're not presenting a direct descendant of Ask and Embla? Seems equally likely, and as equally valid a proof.

"How do I know that the universe was sneezed out the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure? Well, we're here, aren't we?"


40 posted on 11/29/2004 4:44:47 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> You'd be hot-footing it across Hell, cursing yourself for not listening to DannyTN.

That's what it all boils down to, isn't it. You're right, and those who dare question your beliefs is deserving of eternal damnation.

Bite me, doughboy.


41 posted on 11/29/2004 4:46:07 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Busywhiskers

> '175 Examples of Skeptic Ignorance'... long been answered by scholars.

Then Biblical prophesy inerrancy should be easy to prove. Present good photos of those satyrs and dragons romping around in deserted-by-humans-Babylon.

I'm waiting....

An infallible source only needs to be shown to be wrong once to be shown to NOT be infallible. Present the dragons and satyrs. Show how Babylon has remained entirely devoid of human life and will do so for the rest of time.


42 posted on 11/29/2004 4:48:53 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
"And where is Tyre today? A place easily findable in Lebanon. Lots of pictures of old ruins on the net... clearly, it was not a place scraped down to the bedrock, as incorrecctly prophesied."

But the new Tyre isn't where the old Tyre was. And most historians agree, that the old tyre was pushed into the sea as prophesied.

"And is Babylon still the nuclear wasteland devoid of all life save satyrs and dragons that the Bible prophesied? "

Well actually Babylon has been a wasteland for some time. Saddam was digging the original Babylon out of the sand and hoping to restore it. I'm not sure it's been completely devoid of life. The bible never says "nuclear", but it wouldn't surprise me if Damascas and as restored Babylon get nuked at the end of this age, which would still leave another 1000 years for them to lay devoid before the earth is completely destroyed.

Well, not anymore. According to the Old Testament, anyone displaying any tendencies to think democratically would be wiped out lickety-split,

Where did you read that? There were a few people who reaped instant judgement in the Old Testament when God wanted to make a point. But for the most part, God took his sweet time. He had Noah build a boat for 100 years prior to flooding the earth. Do you really think that was necessary? How many years did Lot, a righteous man, live in Sodom and Gemorrah before God had enough and destroyed them? How many warnings had Ninevah received before God sent Jonah with a final warning. And even then Ninivah repented and got another 70 years or though. God has generally been slow to judgement. But then you shouldn't take that for granted either. You are promised nothing. You could end up standing before him this very night. You just never know.

43 posted on 11/29/2004 4:59:03 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> Well actually Babylon has been a wasteland for some time.

Still waiting for those satyr and dragon photos...

> which would still leave another 1000 years for them to lay devoid before the earth is completely destroyed.

Nah. It'll be several billion years before the sun bloats far enough to roast the Earth, and even then, the sun will have lost so much mass that the Earth will have moved outwards some. The Earth is likely to remain for several times it's current age; it'll be thoroughly unpleasant, but it almost certainly won't be destroyed for a long, long time.

> Where did you read that?

Some of Moses' followers were unhappy with the dictatorship he set up, and came to him demanding to be a part of the decision making process (democracy). God done kilt 'em good. Had the ground swallow up a few thousand, had a plague wipe out a bunch too, as memory serves.

>He had Noah build a boat for 100 years prior to flooding the earth. Do you really think that was necessary?

Course not. God coulda just told Noah, "Walk about 20 or 30 miles inland from this here sea, and when it floods, you'll be fine." But, no, he had to go and get all overly dramatic...

> You could end up standing before him this very night. You just never know.

Yes, and you could well end up standing before Crom this very night. When he asks you the Riddle of Steel, will you answer correctly? Or will he cast you out of Valhalla and laugh at you?


44 posted on 11/29/2004 5:52:23 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> Well actually Babylon has been a wasteland for some time. Saddam was digging the original Babylon out of the sand and hoping to restore it.

Given that God said - supposedly - that men woudl never stay there again, it's interest that not only Saddam Hussein but also the US Army seem to have defeated God.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/babylon.htm
"Multinational Division South Central Iraq is headquartered in the amphitheatre at Babylon. Designed to protect the historic Babylon ruins next to the Euphrates river from looters, the camp is home to a number of coalition countries supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom, including Poland, Spain, the United Kingdom, France and Germany, all under the command of the Multinational Defense force Southeast, or MND(SE).

When Navy Seabees attached to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force (I MEF) advanced into the ancient biblical city of Babylon at the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF), they arrived to find the city?s museum and its ruins looted and damaged. After Marines secured the city to protect it from further destruction, the Seabees built Camp Babylon around the ancient city in order to protect one of history?s most important archaeological treasures."


And not a single mention of dragons. You'd think the 101st Airborne would be hunting them buggers down. Make a great trophy for the baracks, no?


45 posted on 11/29/2004 5:59:09 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim
...the underlying message, which is that mankind senses a forthcoming apocalyptic

This has gone on for eons. Mankind senses the end of the world 24/7. Almost like separation anxiety. If its not one end time scenario it's another. we don't need any encouragement to dream up fears.

46 posted on 11/29/2004 6:06:22 PM PST by Podkayne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam
Oh, please, is that the best you can do?

First of all, "Sources seem to disagree on that," does not prove the falsity of the prophecy. Many sources do agree with the scenario that I've laid out, such as this page, which isn't exactly a Christian apologist site.

Second, you're presupposing that neither Adam nor Cain nor the giver of the prophecy existed, not that someone who really existed goofed a prophecy by imventing a couple of names. What you're really saying is that the writer of Genesis was too much of a moron to get his story straight--and given the details of Genesis that we can verify as historically accurate (e.g. the existence of the Hittite empire and Ninevah, both once disputed, the realistic portrayal of 2nd millennium B.C. sites and customs, etc.), that's a proposition that only an ignoramus on the subject would try to pass off.

The fact that the so-called "skeptics" have to pretend that the writer of Genesis didn't know what he meant in his own language (since he gave both prophecy and fulfillment of both instances within a matter of verses) demonstrates more about the skeptics than the text: They aren't really skeptical in the classical sense--they're looking for any pretext to arrive at their predetermined position.

Such a "skeptic" doesn't deserve the name.

47 posted on 11/29/2004 6:24:59 PM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: orionblamblam

Partial Preterism
http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html


48 posted on 11/29/2004 6:31:38 PM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Lindykim
I really have to wonder if any of these "scholars" ever really read the Bible, because they sure do not know what they are talking about.

Number one, God has made it abundantly clear that this Earth is His, made for Himself to dwell in. His favorite place in the entire universe is Jerusalem where he intends to reside in the Holy City, called "The New Jerusalem", floating above the area Jerusalem stands on today.

And since Christians will be where He is, it should follow that they will be in Jerusalem also.

Jesus said the night is coming when no man will be allowed to preach, "sow". We can see that happening now with political correctness vs biblical correctness. It will only get worse until all that is left is the harlot apostate churches written of in Proverbs 7.

Christians are being killed left and right the world over and hated here at home by the tares who sense they will be uprooted and thrown on the fire to perish. They think they can out smart God, and yes they do believe in God else their hatred and eagerness to destroy any trace of Him would not be taken with such earnest determination, with so fierce a focus. No one bothers attacking a myth with the vengeance shown by radical judges, the NEA, the U.N., and the ACLU.

We are also told that the Antichrist talks three members of a world body into loaning him their power for one hour and in that hour Babylon the Great is burned completely. The Antichrist steps into the void, created by the disappearance of powerful Babylon, and emerges as world leader talking peace, and by peace shall he destroy many.

China is amassing an impressive military machine with our dollars and our corporations need to be able to compete in a global market. Revelation speaks of an army 200 million strong that comes from east of the Euphrates River and kills 1/3 of all mankind. Any connection? Who can say?

All we have at present are similarities, the Harlot riding the beast that hates her, burns her and eats her flesh, could be anything. By todays standards the Harlot could be the USofA riding and attempting to control the U.N. which hates us. It's not too far for the imagination to stretch to the possibility of three member nations of the U.N. loaning their nuclear power to the Antichrist for an hour to get the U.N. out from under our veto power and our standing in the way of their global taxation.

Fifty years from now there could be a better candidate and a more likely scenario that fits the prophecies better. We have entered the "end times", where good is evil, evil is good, light is darkness and darkness is light, of that there can be no doubt. But the end times can last from a decade to fifty or more years. No one knows.
49 posted on 11/29/2004 7:05:04 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buggman

> you're presupposing that neither Adam nor Cain nor the giver of the prophecy existed

Incorect. Clearly *somebody* gave the prophesy. Whether Adam or Cain existed is a matter of conjecture at best.

> What you're really saying is that the writer of Genesis was too much of a moron to get his story straight--and given the details of Genesis that we can verify as historically accurate (e.g. the existence of the Hittite empire and Ninevah, both once disputed, the realistic portrayal of 2nd millennium B.C. sites and customs, etc.)

Consider this: If I was to write a fantasmagorical tale of aliens invading the Earth using magical powers, and humans defeat them at long last using rites and incantations... the fact that I set the tale in New York City, and mention President Bush, and have the characters fly around in F-18s - all verifiably real things, people and places - does not give the story credence. If civilization collapses into a two millenia dark age, and, when the new rennaissance finally comes, someone finds portions of the book, and they recognize references to things their archeologists have dug upo, should they take the more startlingly supernatural aspects at face value?


50 posted on 11/29/2004 8:28:03 PM PST by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-133 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson