st jude helps student!

[greatful student]

BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF THE GRACES GIVEN TO ST. JUDE!!! I am graduating college in three weeks and helplessly began my novena asking for help with a job, someone to sublease my apartment, and help to find a place to live. I had sent my resume out to any place that sounded remotely appealing and only was able to get 2 interviews-one was canceled bc they hired someone before my interview, and the other decided not to hire anyone for another 3 months. I was frustrated...I began my novena and asked for help. one week later I got offered my DREAM JOB for an unexpected salary in the #1 location of my choice. the company said they had been looking for the perfect person to fill this position for 5 months and this was the first offer! that same day I received 2 calls interested in my working for them. 3 days later, a girl whom my present roommates get along with, decided to sublease my apartment! (almost impossible to find anyone to take your lease over because of all the December graduates). now I had an issue of where and who to live with. I had two options of places I found online with girls I had not met. (a few of my friends are moving up there after their graduation-but that wasn't until may) 4 days later I found out that one of my good friends from school had a townhouse built in the area and is looking for a roommate!!!! (St. Jude added a bonus by making it the cheapest rent I could find!) How can my life get in any more order? I have absolutely no clue-but I do know that when it isn't in order, who to turn to. what I am most happy about is that I let go of my will and told St. Jude to help me be where God wants me to be-so I feel that I am in accordance to Gods will. I prayed that what he wanted for me, to "put that desire in my heart." I am just so thrilled! "work like it depends all on you and pray like it depends all on God" THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ST. JUDE!!!

[viaveritasvita]

Also, the Bible refers to all believers as saints, not just certain celebrated folks as "annointed" by.....I'm assuming the pope.

<><

[viaveritasvita]

>>>This does raise the question of why you believe that they can hear you since they are not here with us and are physically dead?<<<


Yes!

<><

[tjwmason]

Truth hurts. No matter how you parse it up, the Roman Catholics worship and pray to dead humans. It's just plain sad. But you can get out, too.
Just give me Jesus!

Parsing has diddly squat to do with it, protestant lies do. We give worship (latria) to God alone (the Holy Trinity), we give veneration (dulia) to the Saints, and especial veneration (hyper-dulia) to Our Lady. Veneration is infinitely less than worship. Any properly catechised Catholic will tell you that.

The 'praying' bit is more difficult, as the protestant obfuscation is worse. Earlier this evening my father prayed me to help him lift a heavy box; pray merely means 'ask' it's a tad archaic but one does occasionally still hear people use the phrase 'pray tell'. Thus I suppose we do pray to Saints, in that we ask them to do things for us; what we ask them to do is to pray to God. God is the source of all, especially the source of all providence and Divine intervention. Just as we ask other living members of our churches to pray for the sick &c., so we ask those who have passed through the thin veil of death. As you just want 'Jesus' I take it that you would never ask anybody to pray for you, and would reprimand those who ask you to pray for them.

You're right, there is a way out; or rather there are two ways out. I could commit either heresy or apostacy, in both cases I would cease to be a Catholic. I would also be damned, and so I'll stick with the Church founded by Our Lord, and lead on earth by His Vicar, the Successor to Saint Peter.

You state that you just want Jesus. May one ask about the other parts of the Godhead? We (I mean Catholics, one can never be sure what prots do and don't believe) worship the Holy Trinity made up of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. You seem to ignore two of them.

Finally, there is nothing saddenning about Catholicism, it is the very fullness of the Faith of Christ and His Church.

[power2]

While I don't agree that there is any value in praying to saints - regardless of Catholic church teaching or early church quotes - I really wondered why you thought it had value.

AMPU,

At the risk of getting into the whole generic Protestant versus Catholic thing, I need to ask you how you can simply disregard the views of many of the great early and holy Saints from the earliest days of the Church?

I mean, there is quote after quote from some very well known and respected Saints (by both Protestants and Catholics) indicating they believed the Saints in heaven can hear us, can pray for us, and thus can help us. You simply ignore what they say, sweeping away with the "regardless of Catholic church teaching or early church quotes". This is what they BELIEVED. Were they all misled? Were they all wrong and you right? My friend, I have a hard time believing you would take that position.

I am not a great theologian as many of you are on this forum, but I am baffled how one can simply pretend or ignore what was written by those in the earliest years of the Church just because it does not match theology that someone developed 15 or 16 centries later. The people who developed and passed down many of these teachings were people who sat at the feet of Jesus. Who are we to say that they did not know as much as we know?

Thanks for the civil discourse on this. Usually these threads quickly degenerate into uncivil discussion.

P2

[Natural Law]

The Apostles Creed exists in two forms; the original "Roman Creed" and the more popular "Trent" version that was a part of the "Catechism of the Council of Trent" published in Feburary, 1562. The Roman Creed arose circa 200 AD and traces its roots directly to the Apostles. It was in the later that the phrase "the Communion of Saints" was added.

[tjwmason]

Also, the Bible refers to all believers as saints, not just certain celebrated folks as "annointed" by.....I'm assuming the pope.

Your assumption is wrong, it's God who 'annoints' them.

As a general rule, we do not know where those who have died are (heaven, hell, purgatory); those who are in heaven are in a position to offer powerful prayers to God. When a person has died, if a Catholic believes him to be in heaven he (the Catholic) may request prayers of the dead person. If said person is truly in heaven (i.e., is a Saint) then God's response will be most clear. In some cases where a person has proved 'heroic virtue' for the Faith before death, or has given his life for the Faith (martyrdom), the Church may investigate the responses which God has given to the request for prayers. I will not bother you with the whole process, but suffice it to say, the Church has to be satisfied that the prayers of the dead person have achieved 2 miracles (these are scientifically verified, most normally miraculous cures for the ill). If the Church is so satisfied, then she may proclaim with certainty that the dead person in question truly is in heaven, that is he is a Saint, which then allows public veneration.

There are many many many Saints whose identities are not known. All Saints are made by God, and the Church merely identifies a few of them, so that the faithful may have good examples to follow, and may be certain that prayers will be offered in heaven when they are requested from the Saint.

[power2]

Also, the Bible refers to all believers as saints, not just certain celebrated folks as "annointed" by.....I'm assuming the pope.

The Church does not teach that the only Saints in heaven are those designated by the Church.

We would agree with our Protestant brothers that those souls in heaven are all Saints.

[tjwmason]

The Apostles Creed exists in two forms; the original "Roman Creed" and the more popular "Trent" version that was a part of the "Catechism of the Council of Trent" published in Feburary, 1562. The Roman Creed arose circa 200 AD and traces its roots directly to the Apostles. It was in the later that the phrase "the Communion of Saints" was added.

No, no, no, no, no.

If this was the case, why does the Anglican Book of Common Prayer of 1552 have the relevant phrase in it? First, this was 10 years before the supposed addition. Secondly, it is from the Church of England which was at this point rabidly anti-Roman Catholic.

Do you have any source to back up your most bizarre suggestion?

[MomwithHope]

Congratulations and don't be offended by anyone here. Keep praying to St. Jude and any other saint too.

[Natural Law]

I thought this was a discusion of Catholic doctrine, but I would be glad to discuss the reformation as well.

The nineteenth ecumenical council opened at Trent on 13 December, 1545, and closed there on 4 December, 1563. Its main object was the definitive determination of the doctrines of the Church in answer to the heresies of the Protestants; a further object was the execution of a thorough reform of the inner life of the Church by removing the numerous abuses that had developed in it. The specific inclusion of the phrase "Communion of Saints" was a direct repsonse to the Anglican creed. The Roman church was not going to permit the ownership of Saints by the Anglican church to go unchallenged.

There was a lot of tit-for-tat going on between the Anglican and Roman Churches. If you recall the Anglican liturgy originally excluded the Eucharist but later incorporated it because they were losing a PR battle. Popular belief was that if a Roman priest could bring forth the body and blood of Christ and an Anglican priest couldn't it was a sign from God that the Anglican's were not the true church.

This brings us full circle in the discussion; what part of doctrine and dogma is Devine in origin and what part is not?

[tjwmason]

I thought this was a discusion of Catholic doctrine, but I would be glad to discuss the reformation as well.
The nineteenth ecumenical council opened at Trent on 13 December, 1545, and closed there on 4 December, 1563. Its main object was the definitive determination of the doctrines of the Church in answer to the heresies of the Protestants; a further object was the execution of a thorough reform of the inner life of the Church by removing the numerous abuses that had developed in it. The specific inclusion of the phrase "Communion of Saints" was a direct repsonse to the Anglican creed. The Roman church was not going to permit the ownership of Saints by the Anglican church to go unchallenged.

I'm somewhat bemused by your post. You stated that the Council of Trent added the phrase 'the communion of Saints' to the Apostles Creed. I gave as evidence that this is not the case that an edition of the Book of Common Prayer which pre-dated Trent contained it. Now you are claiming that the Church of England (b.t.w. it would be wrong to refer to the Anglican Church pre-Queen Elizabeth I) had it, and the Romans wanted in on the act (so to speak).

The reason the B.C.P. contained the line was that it had been part of the Apostles Creed for centuries by the time that the B.C.P. was complied. Archbishop Cranmer (for many faults which one can lay at his feet) was not into adding or subtracting from the three creeds.

There was a lot of tit-for-tat going on between the Anglican and Roman Churches. If you recall the Anglican liturgy originally excluded the Eucharist but later incorporated it because they were losing a PR battle. Popular belief was that if a Roman priest could bring forth the body and blood of Christ and an Anglican priest couldn't it was a sign from God that the Anglican's were not the true church.

The Eucharist (actually called the Mass in the very first Book of Common Prayer) was central and essential to the C.ofE. For the first few years of its independent existence it continued with the Latin services books (principally the Sarum Use - a Roman Catholic set of books), then starting with the Litany in 1544, the Order for the Distribution of Holy Communion in 1548 (to be used within the Latin Mass), and the Book of Common Prayer 1549, and 1552 it moved into its own style using Liturgical English.

The question of the confection of the Sacrament by Anglican vs. Roman Catholic Priests is at the heart of the difference between these two Communions. However, at the time it simply was not considered, all of the C.ofE. Priests at its outset were ex-Roman Catholics, and the very same men continued to minister to the same congregations simply changing from Latin to English.

Your final sentence in this paragraph is extraordinary. I have no idea what you mean. The whole point of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is that we perceive bread and wine, yet it is in reality the Body and Blood of Christ (that's what transubstantiation means). I could stand at an Altar in Church, say the relevant prayers, and a laymen in the pews would not be able to tell that this was not the Body and Blood (which it would not be, as I am not a Priest).

[mountainfolk]

Congratulations on your answered prayers. You have given credit where credit is due. St. Jude has helped me out more than once as well.

[phil1750]

I cannot understand the threat you see by Catholics and others asking others to include us in their prayers. George Bush asks the Nation to pray for him. We are reminded to pray for the healing of the sick, the salvation of non-believers, the conversion of lost souls. Isn't this praying for others?

Would you be offended or pleased after a meeting with Billy Graham that he would offer to pray for you?

We believe that in addition to our own prayers to our Heavenly Father, that it surely won't hurt to ask others to pray on our behalf. As for me, being the sinner that I am, I will continue to ask Mary, St. Jude, and everyone else I can think of to join their prayers with mine.

[xone]

'He demonstrably does so in this world, and there's no reason why He might not choose to do so in the next.'

Perhaps, but you would think He might have mentioned the process sometime/somewhere in His Word.

[xone]

Very cruel....but right on.

[Xenalyte]

From which college did you graduate? I want to be sure my nieces don't go there . . . I'd like them to turn out literate.

[Fiddlstix]

BTTT