Posted on 12/06/2004 12:44:58 PM PST by Lindykim
"Is it morally and theologically acceptable to hope anyone goes to hell? ... One...need not be a conservative Christian to believe in some form of hell for the evil. All one need be is a rational believer in a just God. For if there is a just God, it is inconceivable that those who do evil and those who do good have identical fates. A just God must care about justice, and since there is little justice in this world, there has to be in the next. And belief in the next world is also not confined to Christianity. As the Encyclopedia Judaica ... (edited largely by non-religious Jews) notes in the first sentence under the heading 'Afterlife,' 'Judaism has always believed in an afterlife.' ... Much of humanity has been adversely affected by modern-day terror. The lives of millions -- virtually all Palestinians and Israelis, for example -- have been terribly affected by Arafat. And there are hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been destroyed or shattered by him. At the same time, other than a few sycophants enriched by some of the billions of dollars he embezzled from the Palestinians, no one has had a better life because Yasser Arafat lived. ... Yasser Arafat single-handedly made nihilistic acts of cruelty routine, even respectable. ... Thanks to him, the Palestinian name is identified among people of goodwill with barbarity just as the German name came to be associated with barbarity as a result of Hitler. ... Just as any decent human being would want good people to be rewarded in whatever existence there is after this life, they would want the cruelest of people to be punished. So, of course, I hope Yasser Arafat is in hell. ... If you think that is hard-hearted, consider the alternative, that one of the most corrupt and cruel human beings of the past half-century is resting in peace. Whoever isn't bothered by that is the one with the hard heart." --Dennis Prager
Careful there Mr. Prager, it's not that Yessir I'marat wasn't evil, but we need to remember that we are all sinners and deserve hell. Without the unmerited mercy of God we'd all be condemned
Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
I don't think I wrote the opening, but thanks, the reply was interesting.
...and being in the company of the rest of those that rejected Him...not a pretty picture. Not a place I want to be.
This question is pretty idiotic in one sense . . . Prager first has to explain to me what exactly how Judaism deals with the concepts of heaven and hell in the first place.
Albeit an incredibly tiny, local one... Once again, this does not justify infinite repercussions.
It's not so simple as saying that anything we do is finite. There are repurcussions.
Sure there are. But yet again, finite errors earning infinite punishment seems in no way "just".
Somehow I think God knows what He is doing.
Somehow, I see a problem with reconciling the two claims that "God is just" and "God runs an infinite torture chamber".
No one is in hell who "would have" been saved had he just lived a few years longer.
Is it really your contention that if you gave the folks in Hell another chance, they wouldn't be even one who would do what it takes to be saved? Nonsense.
Hell is for the unsaved.
Speaking of which, what kind of "just" entity tortures people for eternity for not "loving Him with all their heart"?
God is not shooting dice.
Just fish in a barrel.
So... Infants who die would have been life-long evil had they lived a full life?
Khmer Rouge embraces Jesus
The Khmer Rouge followed a harsh brand of communism, killing nearly two million people in their bid to return Cambodia to Year Zero. Now they have a new faith: evangelical Christianity.
Hundreds of former fighters have been baptised in the past year. The Khmer Rouge's mountain stronghold, the town of Pailin in south-west Cambodia, has four churches, all with pastors and growing congregations. At least 2,000 of those who followed Pol Pot, the guerrillas' former leader who died six years ago, now worship Jesus. [end of excerpt]
And from that same thread, post 33:
Christianity had a rough start in Cambodia; the bible wasn't fully translated into Khmer until about 1964, IIRC.
The coup which overthrew Sihanouk was followed by Christian growth, so that by the time Cambodia fell to the Khmer Rouge, there were some 30 Protestant churches in Phnom Penn (a growth factor of 10, in a period of 5 years).
The President of the Supreme Court and various other individuals had become believers in "the new God". All of this was swept away with the fall of the city;
Do we have a situation here where the truly repentant Khmer who converted will go to Heaven?
Will their victims go to Hell forever?
Do you think it likely that some of the 2 million victims might have converted to Christianity had the Khmer not murdered them?
See #206. I'm not sure what the passage you've quoted there means to Prager; I'm sure the New Testament has a different approach to the afterlife than what he would understand through Judaism.
I saw that sig-line the other day and thought it was very cool!
I think it is the other way around...We reject Him...
We are free to go with Him (love Him) or not...but as they say...
Satan is waitin.
Fred Phelps does not do Christianity any favors.
VERY off-putting.
Albeit an incredibly tiny, local one... Once again, this does not justify infinite repercussions.
You don't seem to get the point. Can you make reparations? Can you restore the cream and coffee to their original state, the way they were before your "finite" action?
No, you can't. You have introduced an irreversible change intot he world. You can not undo your actions. Your sin is not finite in any way.
It's not so simple as saying that anything we do is finite. There are repurcussions.
Sure there are. But yet again, finite errors earning infinite punishment seems in no way "just".
I said "there are repurcussions." I gave you an example. You need to contemplate this before going off again about "finite errors."
No one is in hell who "would have" been saved had he just lived a few years longer.
Is it really your contention that if you gave the folks in Hell another chance, they wouldn't be even one who would do what it takes to be saved? Nonsense.
You are mistaken both in thinking that those in Hell remain capable of choice and in thinking that those there could do something to merit a different reality.
Hell, like Heaven, is an eternal state. There is no change. And Heaven can not be earned. So the idea of those who are damned "choosing" differently ex post facto is a non-starter.
SD
Exactly. See? You said it in less than half the words. I tend to get too verbose.
Dead Corpse gave it to me :-).
I have often felt that way, over the years, and even now fleetingly feel the same way. I am seventy two now, though and realize just how short and fleeting is the longest life ever recorded upon this earth. I still cannot comprehend eternity, but can comprehend that God can, and that to him, our lives must pass in the blinking of an eye.
All we have to remember is that God is just. I rest my case.
I like your response.
No, they're Protestants. Ha ha, just a joke.
I don't begrudge God saving anyone, anywhere, anytime. No one deserves salvation. If He chose to choose these Khmer as one of His, what gripe do I have?
Will their victims go to Hell forever?
Why would you presume such a thing? I am not capable of answering this question. God saves whom He pleases.
Do you think it likely that some of the 2 million victims might have converted to Christianity had the Khmer not murdered them?
Possibly. But that has little to do with where their souls are now. I am not a fundamentalist who believe one must profess the name "Jesus" in order to go to Heaven. (If one is prevented by good cause from knowing the Gospel.) That is the normative way of salvation, but if God chooses to save these victims, that is His concern.
SD
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