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Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
NY Newsday ^ | 12/9/04 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

Posted on 12/10/2004 7:08:12 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

NEW YORK -- A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God -- more or less -- based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

(Excerpt) Read more at nynewsday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antonyflew; atheism; atheist; atheists; convert; evolution; god; intelligentdesign; ssdd
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To: Ken H
This may confuse you more, but Jesus made one of the point's I tried to make

1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them , Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. 8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. --Matt 20:1-16

361 posted on 12/11/2004 1:25:23 PM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: Dimensio
In any case, I think that I owe you an apology for any incivility that I might have shown toward you.

I didn't notice any, but maybe I've been on FR too long.

362 posted on 12/11/2004 1:29:00 PM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: Ken H

Yes, God's Word clearly states that all who reject God will spend eternity in Hell.


363 posted on 12/11/2004 1:52:02 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Nobody from a scientific perspective "knows" the answer to this one, and I suspect nobody ever will.


364 posted on 12/11/2004 2:41:04 PM PST by Torie
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To: Dimensio

Thank you for your kind reply.

I'm afraid there might have been a little of the "if you don't see it, it is because you don't want to see it" in my attitude and I apologize for that. It comes from the continual assaults on Christianity in the world, in Hollywood and all the USA today.

You are correct there are different views out there, different gods, different beliefs. I do believe mine is the correct one or I would be searching for the true one. Some believe in a god with a different name but I sometimes feel it is the same God as mine.

Yet, we are commissioned to spread the word all over the world. God's favored people, the Jews, have been the recipient of many attempts by God to get them to be faithful to him and put aside their other gods. They have been banished, persecuted and then forgiven time and again because He so loved them. Yet, they still to this day deny His Son is the Savior and feel the Savior has yet to come.

So, we who do believe should heed the outcome of installing other gods in place of God. He does not accept it and it is an affront to Him. Therefore, we have understanding that all do not yet believe, but we know that the only way to Heaven is through God's Son, Jesus.

They deny Jesus at their own risk.


365 posted on 12/11/2004 6:00:50 PM PST by ClancyJ (Middle America is what makes America - not the Liberal "elitists" and the Media)
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To: Glenmerle
Even C.S. Lewis didn't move directly from atheism to Christianity. He first became a theist, with a vague belief in some sort of God, then a Christian.

I heard someone say today,,,

I am not where I want to be, I am not where I ought to be, I am not where I am going to be, but thank God, I'm not where I used to be.

Very appropriate timing I would say.

366 posted on 12/11/2004 8:14:31 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Dimensio

just because some moron posts some idiotic website on the internet doesn't make it factual...

and if you had ever been in combat you would have known better...

don't insult my intelligence with such garbage...


367 posted on 12/11/2004 8:15:47 PM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla
just because some moron posts some idiotic website on the internet doesn't make it factual...

So you're dismissing it...why, because you don't agree with it?

and if you had ever been in combat you would have known better...

Funny, atheists who have been in combat say otherwise.

don't insult my intelligence with such garbage...

Why not? It's certainly no worse than you insulting the honesty and integrity of every atheist who has ever served in the military. How dare you claim to know their minds.
368 posted on 12/11/2004 8:47:10 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio

yea right...

and when you meet your Maker try and sell that BS to Him...


369 posted on 12/11/2004 9:04:17 PM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla
yea right...

Said the arrogant atheist-basher who couldn't cite a fact to save his or her life.

and when you meet your Maker try and sell that BS to Him...

And you toss in a completely irrelevant taunt to distract attention from the fact that you were called out on your arrogant lie.
370 posted on 12/11/2004 9:09:43 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio
If becoming a Christian means becoming as malicious, spiteful and dishonest as you, then I want nothing to do with your religion.

Once again a malicious attack, however, I am not going to go through this ridiculous exercise anymore, you either believe or don't believe, I wish I could see the sense in believing nothing, where is the hope in that? As for calling me a liar, ho-hum, your first post did as much to me so try to justify yourself as much as you can, however, you stated that Mr. Flew never accepted Christ, why would you say this unless you were implying that I had said he did? All I said was that I welcome anyone who accepts Christ into the family. You took it upon yourself to try to correct something that wasn't even said. So it must be great to not even realize the hypocritical statements made by yourself. Please remove the plank from your own eye before removing the speck from your brothers.
I also will not be laughing when those who do not accept Christ are thrown into Hell, will not be a laughing matter, however, you will have brought it upon yourself. No one can make a decision for you except you and if you are willing to suffer the consequences I will leave you to your folly. I congratulate you on taking the easiest choice possible, atheism, it truly is the weakest possible choice to make. As the saying goes those who stand for nothing will fall for anything. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. God Bless!
371 posted on 12/12/2004 9:13:09 AM PST by weshess (I will stop hunting when the animals agree to quit jumping in front of my gun to commit suicide)
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To: Raycpa
So your answer is that these Khmer will go to Heaven, their victims, who were overwhelmingly nonchristian, will go to Hell, and the children will never see their parents again. Is that correct or do the nonchristian children go to Hell forever too?

My answer is that if it were not for Christ, we would all be condemned to death. Why God chooses some and not others is a mystery to me.

I thought it was human free will in accepting or rejecting Christ that determined Heaven or Hell.

I can understand your point though. He doesn't do what I would do. I imagine he doesn't do what you want him to do either. However, even if God doesn't conform to what I think or what you think it doesn't make him less God

It seems you don't care for the idea of eternal Hell either. Does it bother you that 2 million Khmer victims will go to Hell but some of their murderers will go to Heaven? That is what Scripture says will happen, correct?

And what about the Cambodian children? Will they go to Hell too, or do they go to Heaven while their parents are in Hell forever?

Does that inner voice that tells you right from wrong tell you this is loving and merciful?

372 posted on 12/12/2004 11:15:59 AM PST by Ken H
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Yes, God's Word clearly states that all who reject God will spend eternity in Hell.

Then why did you say that the fate of the 2 million Khmer victims, who were overwhelmingly nonchristian, was known only to God?

Scripture says the Khmer victims are going to Hell, right?

Also, I still haven't got an answer as to what Scripture says happens to the child victims of the Khmer.

373 posted on 12/12/2004 11:24:33 AM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H
I don't pretend to know what happens in the final moments of any man's life. Do you? Remember the two criminals who were crucified on the right and left side of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Luke 23:32-43

374 posted on 12/12/2004 11:38:09 AM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
I don't pretend to know what happens in the final moments of any man's life. Do you?

Oh come on. They called out to the God they worshipped in life, just like you would.

You don't seem willing to admit to the unpleasant things that follow from Scripture. It's easy to cheer an Arafat or Hitler going to Hell. It's not quite so easy with the Khmer victims.

375 posted on 12/12/2004 11:52:18 AM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H
You may think me a liar, but while I might feel relief over the passing of a Hitler, Stalin, Clinton or Arafat, I feel no joy over any soul that spends eternity in Hell.

I don't know that the two criminals hanging on either side of Jesus Christ of Nazareth had ever been religious, except perhaps to worship their own lusts, but one rejected the Savior and the other cried out to Him for salvation. I cannot explain it, except to say that God says in His Word that He puts a knowledge of Himself in the heart of every man. I encourage you to read the first chapter of Romans, beginning at verse 19.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth spoke much more about Hell than He ever did of Heaven. His dire warnings are crystal clear and would only be dimmed by my attempts to explain them.

Suffice it to say, Hell is a place to be avoided.

Psalms 111:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

376 posted on 12/12/2004 12:25:46 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Jesus Christ of Nazareth spoke much more about Hell than He ever did of Heaven. His dire warnings are crystal clear and would only be dimmed by my attempts to explain them.

No one has any trouble explaining or justifying the kind, loving aspects of Scripture. The Golden Rule, for example, is consistent with a loving God.

Contrast that with difficulty folks are having with explaining or justifying Hell for the Khmer victims.

No matter how anyone tries to avoid the issue, an eternal Hell for any human soul flat out contradicts an infinitely loving Father.

I see no way to reconcile the two contradictory positions.

377 posted on 12/12/2004 12:50:13 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H

Do you believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth died on a cross and three days later rose from the grave?


378 posted on 12/12/2004 1:08:15 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: tuesday afternoon

Volley bump!


379 posted on 12/12/2004 1:12:28 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Do you believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth died on a cross

Yes.

and three days later rose from the grave?

I don't know, but if I had to pick yes or no, I lean to yes.

380 posted on 12/12/2004 1:16:15 PM PST by Ken H
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