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When will Jesus return? Joseph Farah details evidence pointing to Christ coming back to Earth
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, December 22, 2004 | Joseph Farah

Posted on 12/21/2004 11:49:02 PM PST by JohnHuang2

Wednesday, December 22, 2004


between the lines Joseph Farah
When will Jesus return?

Posted: December 22, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Joseph Farah


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness. From then on and forevermore ..."

– Isaiah 9:6-7 (NASB)

As we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ this week and prepare for 2005 next week, I can't help but think about how close we must be to the Second Coming – when the Lord will return for His church and personally rule over the Earth for 1,000 years.

Oh, I know, some of you don't believe in such things. You think it's just a bunch of silly superstition. Even some Christians don't believe in the Second Coming. Many prefer I stick to writing about news events of the physical world rather than arcane spiritual matters.

But, as a journalist, I can't ignore hard evidence – no matter where it may lead me. And the more I study the prophetic scriptures of the Holy Bible and look at the condition of our world today, the more convinced I become that we are nearing that time. In fact, I think we are very close.

For just as Jesus' virgin birth in Bethlehem was foretold by the Hebrew prophets hundreds of years earlier, so, too, was His return to Earth predicted. The only question is when.

The most dramatic evidence for His imminent return our generation has witnessed was the rebirth of the nation of Israel more than 50 years ago. The Jews, God's chosen people, were, as prophesied, scattered over the whole earth for nearly two millennia beginning shortly after Jesus' death on the cross. Yet, in my opinion, the scriptures leave no doubt that the Jewish state would exist once again before He returned.

Interestingly, Orthodox Jews have long taught that the world would last for 6,000 years before the Messiah would come and usher in a 1,000-year period of restful human history. Since God created the world in six days, according to Genesis 1:31, and rested on the seventh day, according to Genesis 2:1, they reasoned the world's history would climax the same way. They cite Psalms 90:4, which says: "For a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by."

Likewise, Christians have looked to II Peter 3:8: "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

The early church understood this "six-day theory" of world history. It was widely accepted teaching for the first three centuries of the church. From the time of Adam, we've got genealogical records to show that 4,000 years passed until the time of Christ. From Jesus' time until the present age represents another 2,000 years for a total of 6,000 years or six days.

There's also a three-day theory: Jesus rose on the third day. Would the beginning of the third millennium – or thousand-year period – not be the likely time for His return to Earth? There is even strong scriptural evidence for such a theory provided in Hosea 6:2: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight." Note that this prophecy is not about the Resurrection of Jesus – it's either about the resurrection of Israel after 2,000 years of dispersal or the physical return of the Lord.

In 1772, Edward Gibbons published "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire," in which he cites early documents suggesting the Christian disciples of the first century were taught that Jesus would return after 2,000 years. We'll soon find out if they were right.

For many reasons, I believe Jesus is returning soon. But I'm especially drawn to II Timothy 3:1-5, which describes the state of the world in the "last days." Tell me if this doesn't sound like our world:

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

To me, that sounds like our world today.

Christmas represents a time of great hope for Christians. Of course, we're grateful that Jesus came about 2,000 years ago and died for our sins. Now we should be hopeful and expectant of His imminent return.

Merry Christmas. And happy birthday, Jesus.




TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2ndcoming; farah; farahanutcase; farahnotcredible; secondcoming; weeklyworldnews; worldnutdaily
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1 posted on 12/21/2004 11:49:02 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2

Best article I've read tonight. Thanks for posting it.


2 posted on 12/21/2004 11:56:58 PM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: loboinok

My pleasure, friend.


3 posted on 12/21/2004 11:57:45 PM PST by JohnHuang2 ("You can get so well educated ... your thoughts become detached from common sense" -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: JohnHuang2

I wish today where the day. I feel ready.


4 posted on 12/21/2004 11:58:34 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: JohnHuang2

I am one who does not believe in a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. The Bible says that in the last days it will be as in the days of Noah. Well, we all know that in the days of Noah there were eight believers. Christians will be persecuted in the last days and many will fall away from the truth. We are beginning to see that but it should make us work harder to reach out with the Gospel and not sit back and wait for the end. How Christians can think they have an idea when the end will come is opposed to Scripture since Jesus said no one knows when the end will come except the Father. Jesus says that there will be signs but these signs have been happening for a long time. But not a long time in God's time.


5 posted on 12/21/2004 11:59:38 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: JohnHuang2

II Tim. does sound like it describes the world today.
The sooner Christ comes and sets up His Kingdom, the better!


6 posted on 12/22/2004 12:03:24 AM PST by Frog Legs
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To: JohnHuang2

Oooga-boooga.


7 posted on 12/22/2004 12:05:00 AM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: taxesareforever
I am one who does not believe in a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth.

I don't believe this is a majority opinion in the religious world.

The Jews of Jesus time had a real hard time grasping the notion that the kingdom of God was not an earthly kingdom. I don't think that will change at the second coming, thus creating this 1000 year reign.

8 posted on 12/22/2004 12:05:29 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: JohnHuang2

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw in Alabama; "Jesus is coming!...and boy is he pissed!"


9 posted on 12/22/2004 12:05:40 AM PST by SAMS
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To: JohnHuang2
how close we must be to the Second Coming – when the Lord will return for His church and personally rule over the Earth for 1,000 years

I believe that 100% and eagerly await His return. This world is very cruel and unjust.

10 posted on 12/22/2004 12:10:11 AM PST by Peace Is Coming
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To: taxesareforever

How Christians can think they have an idea when the end will come is opposed to Scripture

With all due respest,having an "idea" is not opposed to scripture.Predicting or prophesying is.
Scripture tells us to be "watchful, and...be mindful of the seasons".


11 posted on 12/22/2004 12:12:58 AM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: JohnHuang2
You kind of have to tie together the descriptions of the period in which the "End Times" is entered. When darkness is considered light, and light darkness, such as preachers charged with "hate speech" today. It will be a time when good is called evil and evil is called good. Certainly this is that time. There is no why to know how long the "End Times" last, moving on into the "Tribulation" and Armageddon.

The way the leaders of the world, including and especially our own is forcing, pushing, and promoting one world governance via treaties makes one think it isn't that far in the future. God has attempted to protect man from globalism from the "Tower of Babel", yet we persist in chasing this dangerous pursuit.
12 posted on 12/22/2004 12:24:09 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Peace Is Coming

Not going to happen, ever - at least not in the way we think. I curious though, what happens after those 1,000 years of the Lord's reign? Does all hell break loose again? In the cosmic view of things 1,000 years is pretty short. Personally, I like to think in terms of infinity and eternity.


13 posted on 12/22/2004 12:28:15 AM PST by Avenger
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To: Avenger
what happens after those 1,000 years of the Lord's reign? Does all hell break loose again?

Rev 20:7
All hell does break loose again..! But not for long and there will be a Last Judgement

14 posted on 12/22/2004 12:33:32 AM PST by Jay Howard Smith (Retired(25yrs)Military)
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To: JohnHuang2; taxesareforever

As a post-trib believer, and one that believes Christ will return, as the article says, at the beginning of the millennial reign, I say bravo for such a great article. John Farah is tops in my book for putting this out.

And as for taxesareforever, who is apparently Amillennial, I submit this. Amillennialist have a thousand arguments against the thousand years, I think I have heard them all in various prophecy conferences I have attended.

Mere theoretical contrivances, the chronological order of the book of Revelation places the thousand years after the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Besides that, if there is no millennial reign upon earth, why does the book of Revelation have him returning to the earth? (In chapter 19...followed by the thousand years in chapter 20.)


15 posted on 12/22/2004 12:36:23 AM PST by sasportas
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To: JohnHuang2

As a Christian, I say- we're not even close. I wish it were today, but we're not even near. It's supposed to get ALOT worse than this before He comes. Even these trying times are nothing compared to what He described the "Days Before The Coming" would be like.

And the fact that I've heard preachers state for over 20 years that "The End is VERY near! It could happen at ANY moment!" doesn't help too much.


16 posted on 12/22/2004 12:37:27 AM PST by richmwill
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To: taxesareforever

"opposed to scripture"

It was Paul's teaching that said to the new believers, "it has been given unto you to know the mysteries and secrets of the Kingdom" - if God wasn't going to tell us anything, He forgot to inform Paul.

I believe Jesus said that we "already know the times and the seasons".

Since God is able to commune with us (as believers), then surely He is able to tell us the time is near. Would He tell us the exact date - NO - but He's been giving off signals for years.


17 posted on 12/22/2004 12:39:24 AM PST by CyberAnt (Where are the dem supporters? - try the trash cans in back of the abortion clinics.)
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To: taxesareforever

I remeber seeing a program, I believe it was on the History Channel about the end of the Earth, and they were looking towards the Bible where they said that the end would come after 11 years of peace between the Isrealites and the Palistineans, which should of started in 2002 since they predicted the end in 2012 (iirc).

God just loves to keep us wondering.


18 posted on 12/22/2004 12:48:07 AM PST by Brian328i
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To: JohnHuang2

Every generation since the time of Christ believes that their generation is the last one. God only knows how many times some religious leader has claimed to know when the Last Day will be, and every one of them has been 100% wrong. It is amazing to see that people still fall for the same old line.


19 posted on 12/22/2004 12:52:51 AM PST by Nosterrex
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To: Nosterrex

Yep, I can say with confidence I have no idea when Jesus will return or what will happen upon his return; but I do know we will all finally pay our dues, like it or not.


20 posted on 12/22/2004 12:53:57 AM PST by Brian328i
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To: richmwill; All

When Jesus comes for His church .. the Holy Spirit will leave the earth. Just light a small candle in a dark room, and then blow the candle out. What you have is "gross darkness". The church will not experience that. The church will be gone. Those who are left on the earth will have tons of bad stuff to deal with.

When Jesus returns to begin His 1000 year reign, He will be bringing the church with him. After the 1000 years, the devil will be loosed one more time .. (short - according to the Bible) .. and then the final judgement (the white throne judgment). After that is eternity - enjoying being one of God's kids - no sickness, no death, no hunger, no wars.


21 posted on 12/22/2004 12:55:36 AM PST by CyberAnt (Where are the dem supporters? - try the trash cans in back of the abortion clinics.)
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To: Nosterrex

"last generation"

That may be true, but Jesus gave a clue in Mathew - He said, "the generation that sees the fig tree bloom". The diciples ask Him when the end would come.

The "fig tree bloom" is in reference to Israel becoming a state. That occurred in 1948 - 56 years ago. Since a generation is 40 years (or was at the time the Bible was written), 56 years could mean Jesus is late .. or it could mean that God understands the laws of longevity have changed and we still have a few years to go.

However, since I was alive in 1948 - it could be that my generation is the last one.


22 posted on 12/22/2004 1:04:16 AM PST by CyberAnt (Where are the dem supporters? - try the trash cans in back of the abortion clinics.)
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To: CyberAnt

Check out Zacharia 14. He will set his foot on the mount of olives. They (Jews) will see the scar in his side and the scars in his hands and say, "Where did you get those scars? and he will say in the house of my friends and a nation will be saved in a day.


23 posted on 12/22/2004 1:24:44 AM PST by Texas Songwriter (p)
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To: loboinok
With all due respest,having an "idea" is not opposed to scripture.Predicting or prophesying is.

Prophesying is? Do all those prophets in the Bible know that? Someone should have told Paul... "Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." I Cor. 14:1

24 posted on 12/22/2004 1:35:52 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: JohnHuang2

Don't really know for sure when he's coming

But from what I've read ... we won't miss the hints when he does


25 posted on 12/22/2004 1:41:22 AM PST by Mo1 (Should be called Oil for Fraud and not Oil for Food)
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To: Nosterrex
Every generation since the time of Christ believes that their generation is the last one.

It always amuses me greatly that Johnathon Edwards (Preached one of the most famous sermons ever - "Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God", 1741, Connecticut) thought the "end was near" in 1741, due to all the "sin and wickedness" he saw all around him in Colonial America. If he came back today, he'd probably be so stunned, he'd die of a heart attack within minutes.

"...God seems now to be hastily gathering in his elect in all parts of the land; and probably the greater part of adult persons that ever shall be saved, will be brought in now in a little time..."

26 posted on 12/22/2004 1:46:55 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited

Prophesying or predicting when the lord will return.Not prophesying in general.


27 posted on 12/22/2004 1:51:24 AM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: loboinok

Correction: Lord


28 posted on 12/22/2004 1:55:42 AM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: loboinok



But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

To me, that sounds like our world today.



Oh come on. That sounds like the world of men at any point in history.


29 posted on 12/22/2004 2:02:28 AM PST by Truthsearcher
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To: JohnHuang2
In 1772, Edward Gibbons published...

Edward Gibbons, eh? I especially liked the 15th & 16th chapters of that devout Christian's book on Rome. ;-)

To me, that sounds like our world today.

And to me that sounds like our world every single day since humans have been stumbling across its surface. This is the main trick of gloomy prognosticators: their "evidence" is so arrantly ambiguous it can be applied to all times. "Gee-whiz, Grandpa, that Nostradamus predicted everything!"

"He sure did, Tristram! And we know that the Brewers will win the World Series next year because of Nostradamus' reference to a white knight eating a pear."

Of course when the Brewers get badly stompted next year it casts no dispersions on ol' Nostradamus' visionary genius; it's our fault for not interpreting the true import of the pear: he meant in 2008!

Raptures, tribulations, atonements: Why is God so obsessed with bizarre theatrics?

30 posted on 12/22/2004 2:03:29 AM PST by Tristram Shandy
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To: Truthsearcher

Oh come on. That sounds like the world of men at any point in history.

True to some degree.Is it more prevalent today than say,50 to 150 years ago?


31 posted on 12/22/2004 2:07:26 AM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: Frog Legs
The sooner Christ comes and sets up His Kingdom, the better!

Since God is not willing that any should perish, He keeps waiting, 'delaying' the final day. Those who come to Him this week are very thankful for His patience.

32 posted on 12/22/2004 2:26:59 AM PST by eccentric (aka baldwidow)
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To: JohnHuang2

Who's the anti-Christ? Don't we sorta need him in this deal?


33 posted on 12/22/2004 2:41:06 AM PST by Glenn (The two keys to character: 1) Learn how to keep a secret. 2) ...)
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To: Brian328i
" Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God The Father. "

I also believe that we are close to the end times. The turnaround from what was taboo when I was growing up to the "anything goes" mentality that has been sweeping our country is disturbing. A culture of morals and values do still exist but it doesn't appear to be as dominant among most people as when I was growing up. Respect for "anything or anybody" has taken a backseat to immorality. I do see hope in some of the younger generation of today that are taking abstinence seriously, planning for their future, and enlisting to serve their country during times of crisis. To these young Americans, I say thank you, my faith is restoring.
34 posted on 12/22/2004 2:41:55 AM PST by Mustng959 (In loving memory of those that gave their all to preserve our Freedoms!)
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To: JohnHuang2
When will Jesus return?

I am inclined to accept the inspired word of God (with the help of a few men) for the answer to this one.

When will Jesus return?

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only". Matthew 24:36

35 posted on 12/22/2004 2:47:56 AM PST by asgardshill (Will shill for Zwieback toast.)
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To: JohnHuang2

While on the subject of the imminent return of Christ, I received this in email recently, and my apologies in advance for the length of it, but I found it most compelling and hope that it will be of interest.



The Rapture - Mid-Tribulation
By Mark Watson

The Pre-tribulation Rapture is not a sound and unassailable theological position. The preponderance of evidence that the translation of the saints and the second coming of Jesus Christ are one and the same event is extensive. I know many of you have been taught to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture by a plethora of biblical prophecy teachers and scholars. The following paragraphs will explain why, as much as I want to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, the scriptures clearly indicate when the translation of the saints will occur. But first let me explain why this topic is so very important.

What you believe affects how you live. If you earnestly believe that you will not go through the last seven years of extreme trouble commonly referred to as the Great Tribulation, then you will not make any preparations spiritually or physically. If on the other hand you know (or even suspect) you will be here, then you will prayerfully and constantly seek Christ’s wisdom and guidance and LIVE BY FAITH. It is my considered opinion that God loves us all, even the most hardened sinner. But he will not be mocked at judgment day. We saints of God who sincerely want to do God’s will must do what Christ tells us to do, even if it means receiving ridicule and scorn, and having ‘Christians’ separate themselves from us. For many of us this means to live simply and humbly. Others have been called to exhort and teach while others are to minister according to Gods good graces. We, who are among the saved, must claim Gods promises including the ones Jesus made such as “In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world.” ( John 16:33b) This is an (uncomfortable) promise the Son of God makes to his followers. If you are a true Christian, it applies to you. The necessity of enduring to the end and of the leading astray, if possible, even the elect takes on an entirely new meaning if the Church is to here during the tribulation and the reign of anti-Christ.

Additionally, it must be stated here that other than the doctrine of the first coming of Christ, his death and resurrection and Messiahship, the doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ is the most important doctrine in scripture, in short it is the final act in God's promise of redemption. The return of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to save his Church, the true Israel and heirs to the promise is the single most important doctrine in the Bible, with the possible exception of Christ's bodily resurrection. In short it is the consummation of the work of Jesus Christ. So how can any believer say, 'It isn't important', or 'it will all come out in the wash' or 'we'll know when he comes'?That was the mistake the Jews made when Christ came the first time and THEY WERE REJECTED FOR NOT KNOWING THE TIME OF THEIR VISITATION. Jesus told us to watch, over and over again he warns us to watch. How are we to know what to watch for? The answer to that is in the scriptures, in the writings of the Prophets and in the Messiah's words. This is a critical doctrine, because if you do not get this right, you will be as a man looking towards the east, when all the things he should be watching for are in the west. Remember, the Jews during Christs time, were hell-bound and eventually wound up hating and murdering the Christ who came to save them because they did not expect him to do the things that he did at the time that he did them. They wanted someone who would restore the kingdom of David and rid them of Roman Dominance without really turning towards God and doing the things that he commanded them to do. Today, believers want Christ to come to save them from the reign of Antichrist and severe persecution without the true repentance and more importantly the complete submission to Christ's Lordship (obedience) that leads to true salvation. In short, they want to fly away. Yet the scriptures clearly teach something very different. Lay hold of this, it is very important.

The rapture of the saints cannot occur until the last trumpet is sounded. “Behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51,52). This gives the timing of the rapture.

At the last trump.

Let’s see what else the scripture says about this, “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the LORD himself shall decent from heaven with a shout with the voice of the Archangel and with the Trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air and so shall we ever be with the LORD. (1 Thes 4:15-17)

The time table is the same:

The trumpet.

The Dead in Christ shall be raised.

The remaining saints translated

Paul tells the Church that we the remaining, still alive believers will not precede those saints who had already died in the LORD. My goodness, how much more clear can you get!? Brothers and sisters, this doctrine is no real mystery. It is not complicated, it is not hidden deep in obscure verses to be interpreted in a strange and new way. It is in plain black and white so plain that any honest, literate, spirit-filled Christian can see for themselves. Unfortunately that is the extreme minority of Christians in America. Far too many are listening to the false shepherds of Babylon.

Paul warned the Thessalonians, “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

(2Th 2:1-4)

Here is a stern warning from the Apostle. He categorically states with regard to:

1. The coming of the LORD

2. Our Gathering unto Him

He warns us not to let any man deceive you BY ANY MEANS (by a secret return of the LORD). Yet the modern American teachers have found a means. They simply say that there is another 'secret coming' or a 'secret gathering' that that Paul isn't talking about. Christ warned us about those who teach of a secret return of the LORD and told his disciples exactly how he was going to come, suddenly for all to see and hear.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Mat 24:26-27)

A note here, Paul says that anyone who says the church won’t be here when the son of perdition (Antichrist) is revealed is deceiving you. Those who are teaching that you are going to fly away before the Antichrist is revealed are deceivers. Plain and simple. But there is big, big money in deceiving the Church, hence they are the ones whom the harlot religious system honors and promotes with their books, movies and magazines. Some may be doing it with the best of intentions, but a false doctrine is still false and a false teacher is still a false teacher. Reader Beware. Many of todays Seminaries and Bible Colleges have pounded the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture into the minds of denominational Church leaders that now hold important positions in mainstream Christianity. Many hold this doctrine because they have never really honestly studied it fully. Other have studied it knowing the pre-trib rapture position is false but remain silent out of cowardice and fear. Still others don't really believe in a return of the LORD at all, though they would never actually teach that. In any event, whatever the motivation of these religious leaders weather it is laziness, fear, or unbelief the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture is a false one.

What does Jesus say?
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Matt 24:29-31)

Jesus said after the tribulation. And again we see the angels are present and the sound of a Trumpet.

The book of revelation identifies when the LAST trumpet sounds. There are seven trumpets which sound in the book of revelation and the last one is very different from the first six.

The First trumpet - fire hail and blood were thrown to earth.

The Second trumpet - a great “mountain” was cast into the sea.

The Third trumpet - a great star fell from heaven.

The Fourth trumpet - the sun moon and stars smitten.

The Fifth trumpet - the key to the bottomless pit opened, locusts released

The Sixth trumpet - Four powerful angels released to slay one-third of men.

Then there is a long description of events which take place BEFORE THE SEVENTH AND FINAL ANGEL SOUNDS his trumpet.

1. An angel declares the mystery of God is finished1. (The seven thunders)

2. There should be no more delay.

3. The temple of God is measured.

4. God’s two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days (who says there are no more prophets!)

5. The two witnesses shall be killed in Jerusalem.

6. The two witnesses shall be caught up to heaven.

But at the seventh trumpet;

1. The kingdoms of the Earth become the kingdoms of God and Jesus Christ

2. The nations are angry at Jesus Christ

3. The Judgment of the dead is at hand

4. The reward of Gods servants is at hand.

5. Time for Christ and his servants to destroy those that destroy the earth.

6. The time of God’s wrath has come.

Indeed these verses show there is an excellent possibility of a pre-wrath rapture. Consider that the DAY of the LORD begins with his wrath. And that on that day many, many things begin to happen, perhaps too many to fit into a single solar day.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2Pe 3:8)

I do not want to take liberties here for this subject is not so clear, but it is quite possible that the Last Day (Day of the LORD) that begins with God's Wrath, is the actually the beginning of the last thousand year reign also known as the millennium. This is food for serious thought for after the last trumpet sounds, the rulership of the planet changes hands and many many things transpire.

The First Resurrection
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection - Revelation 20:4-5

This is a most amazing scripture in the entire debate on the second coming of Christ. First, look and see who is included in this resurrection; those who refused to take the mark of the beast. Now we know that the translation of the saints (rapture) is not until after the first resurrection (1 Thess4:16-17). This verse tells you that the First resurrection takes place AFTER the mark of the beast. In short, NO resurrection and NO rapture before the mark of the beast. This lines up perfectly with what Paul so clearly stated, there will be no second coming of Christ before the Antichrist is revealed. (2 Thess. 2:3).

Indeed, Christ himself was most emphatic on when he was going to resurrect the dead in Christ.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (Joh 6:39)

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (Joh 6:40)

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (Joh 6:44)

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. (Joh 11:24)

Christ makes it abundantly clear that no one gets resurrected until the last day. The Apostle Paul makes it clear that no one is going away in any 'rapture' until the dead in Christ are raised up first. These are clear and incontrovertible teaching of Christ and his holy Apostles.

I do not see the Second Coming of Christ and the rapture of the saints as two different events. Rather, I see clearly it as being one single event. Nevertheless, even if they are separate events, neither will occur before the man of sin is revealed and many Christians are martyred for having refused the mark of the beast. More importantly, I do not believe the scriptures teach anything remotely like a pre-tribulation rapture. Christ is coming for a Church without spot or wrinkle. That certainly does not describe the millions of worldly, carnal 'christians' who flock to see the latest 'end-times' movies or buy the latest, best selling heretical 'Christian fiction' books. I am not trying to be condescending, but I believe that in the scriptures, first means first and last means last, if another trumpet sounds it is not the last!! Let me make this very clear to those who are teaching contrary to God’s revealed word, any other definition of last is no more than a wresting of the scriptures and great spiritual folly. But I am sure you will find no difficulty in finding millionaire teachers to convince you “that the Holy Spirit really didn’t mean last, what he really meant to say was…[Insert your convenient lie here]...”

The Wrath of God and the Church.
The church will not experience God’s wrath. PERIOD. Many teachers see this as evidence that the church must be raptured first. On the surface this seems sound, but in reality it is American, it is Laodicean and it springs from a spirit of lukewarmness. Consider this, Lot was not translated at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but he was removed from the danger area, Noah was not translated even though the flood covered the whole earth, everyone else was dead! At the end of the tribulation at least a few will survive. By faith Noah prepared. Even though he was certainly mocked and laughed at for doing so. During the plagues of Egypt God supernaturally protected his people from his WRATH (not from chastisement, tribulation or persecution, but Gods Holy Wrath). This is one way God may protect us from the plagues of the last days. However God chooses to do it, you can be sure he will. It is a non-sequiter that God MUST translate the church for people to escape his wrath. God is Sovereign and rest assured he has the situation under control, even if we are like the saints in the book of Daniel who were thrown directly into the fiery furnace and were not burned, GOD IS ABLE!!! I must tell you, this American Gospel of prosperity, easy believe-ism and name it and claim it materialism, is not of God and gives rise to the comfortable no-suffering doctrines which are passed off as truth in the pulpit and Christian TV. Millionaire Christians who preach this non-sense put their sheep in great peril because when persecutions and tribulations come, it shakes the faith of these poor souls. And if they are taught to believe that we will not go through the tribulation and finds everyone still here, what will happen next? Hell's voice will speak in their troubled minds and say “If your preacher was wrong about the Rapture what else is he wrong about?” Then unbelief and even apostasy sets in. Then follows spiritual disaster. Because they were taught the gospel according to the American flag and the American dollar rather than according to Christ Jesus. God is not mocked. He who stores his treasure on earth will reap corruption. Consider this carefully, it will mean life or death to the mainstream American-Laodicean Church.

While God has not appointed us to wrath, there are some hard, hard times that believers will have to face and endure...to the end. The Antichrist will make war on the saints and will overcome them.

Revelation 13 says of the Beast: Vs 7 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

One of the first mistakes made by modern and apostate teachers is that the Church will not be here when the 'end times' begins. This is palpably false and there is no real scriptural evidence for this. Those who hold this view must ignore or 'reinterpret' the words 'saints' and 'believers' and 'those who obey God's commandments' as something other that the true followers of Jesus Christ, better known as the Church. Redefining terms is a tool the devil has always used to obfuscate and confuse the truth and finally deceive people. Saints means saints. If you have difficulty in knowing who the saints are, then do a word study(See Bottom of this Page2). Most of you will not STUDY the word of God, to show yourselves approved and that is why so many will not believe what the scripture teaches, but rather believe what the false teachers are teaching.

Rev. 14:9-14 clearly teaches 3 things:

The saints of the tribulation are those who hold the true faith of Jesus Christ (Vs 12)

They are to have patience because the mark of the beast is here and they must not take it (vs 9-12)

There is s special blessing in those who die from that time onwards (Vs 13)

I also believe that these teachers are setting up the people of God for a very, very vile deception. I do not know exactly what this deception is, but the Spirit bears witness that the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture figures in heavily. But whatever it is, it will be strong enough to deceive God's most precious elect, if it were possible. Very few believers fall into that category. Very few. If it is strong enough to deceive them, what about the millions of half-baked lukewarm minions who call themselves Christians who bring great dishonor to Christ with their sinful lifestyles, and doctrines of devils? Did not the Apostle Paul warn of these types of people when he said that God would send them a strong delusion because they loved not the truth? Bear this in mind, saints of God, Satan is not sending this delusion, though he may be the instrument. God himself is sending this one.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:8-12)

Whatever this deception is, it has been in the works since at lest the days of Paul in the 1st Century (2Thes2:7). Therefore, if you are not firmly rooted and grounded in the word, knowing the times and the seasons of God's prophetic timetable, you will be like a man who goes into battle without a map, weapon or a battle plan.

Such people will be the slaughtered on the great day of the LORD, with all who loved the lie rather than the truth.

The Spirit bears witness that the doctrine of Christ's Second Coming is a foundation one. It is almost as important (though not quite) as salvation by grace and repentance from dead works. It is especially important to THIS GENERATION. God does not make foundational doctrines difficult to understand for his TRUE FLOCK. It is up to the Devil to confuse, obfuscate, misdirect, and otherwise DECEIVE those who receive not the love of the truth. Brothers and sisters, please let that not be you.

I know I have been uncompromising on this and I cannot apologize, I sense deeply that there is a great deception coming and this doctrine (the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine) is an important part of it. It is going to fool a lot of Christians. Even now some are teaching that it will be OK to take the mark of the Beast because it is only an 'economic mark' (????). Please study this doctrine and know the times and seasons it is the only way to properly watch unto salvation.




I humbly submit that I have been given no special divine revelation, no special angel has visited me with special messages regarding the rapture, no dream has revealed this mystery nor has any spiritual being spoken to me about these matters. I profess no special unction from God nor do I seek to have 'followers'. Additionally, I do not wish to create dissension in the true Church of God. My only tools in unraveling this mystery are rightly dividing the word of truth (for many years) and deep and sincere prayer. Many will gainsay this message as it is contrary to the common teachings of the American Pulpit and the Government Corporations passing themselves off as Churches. Also, many who have claimed to have had 'special revelation' from God will also revile this message. I am undaunted and unconcerned with them. If they cannot teach the truth clearly, concisely from the scriptures, I want nothing to do with their uninspired opinions and half studied doctrines that are deceiving many well meaning Christians. Let them be judged by the living God for what they are. Please keep in mind that this writing is not a personal attack upon anyone. It is a look at the doctrine of the rapture/last trump as it is taught clearly and concisely in the Bible, without fanciful interpretations of apocalyptic symbology or exegetical mistakes that imputes or assumes events that are not clearly and concisely taught in scripture. Before any of you readers get all hot and bothered with what I have written, read, study and pray sincerely for wisdom and it will be granted... if it is asked for in faith.

“And what I say unto you, I say unto all, Watch” (Mark 13:37)


36 posted on 12/22/2004 3:05:14 AM PST by Mad Mammoth
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To: JohnHuang2

Great post John.....


37 posted on 12/22/2004 3:10:00 AM PST by .45MAN (Have a Happy and Holy Christmas)
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To: JohnHuang2

I am reminded of a little chorus and a hymn that I learned 50 years ago:

It might be no more days, It might be eleven;
It might be 22 more days before we hear from heaven.
It might be 33 more days; it might be 44.
It might be 55 more days. It might be even more.
It might be 66 more days it might be 77.
It might be 88 more days before we hear from heaven.
It might be 99 more days, it might be even more.
BUT THIS I KNOW--HE'S COMING SOON, JESUS MY LORD.

All I know is that we're closer to the Lord's return than we were yesterday.

Another song:

It may be at morn when the day is awakening.
It may be at noon when the bright clouds are breaking
It may be at even with the darkness descending
When Jesus shall come in the fullness of glory to receive from the world His own.
Oh, Lord Jesus, how long, how long ere we shout the glad song? CRIST RETURNETH, HALLELEUJAH! HALLELEUJAH, AMEN.


38 posted on 12/22/2004 3:11:17 AM PST by 1lawlady
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To: Glenn
Who's the anti-Christ? Don't we sorta need him in this deal?

Sometimes I wonder if OBL is him. The bible says the anti Christ will have a bad arm and a blind eye due to wounds during war. OBL has a bad arm and I don't know about his eyes. Maybe he will yet get a bad eye in another battle. Many Muslims already believe he is the messiah and Europe seems like it is not far behind. Just wondering not putting this out as fact, at least not yet.

39 posted on 12/22/2004 3:14:09 AM PST by Bellflower (A NEW DAY IS COMING!)
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To: Frog Legs

Jesus told us to "watch"! I'm watching with great expectation.


40 posted on 12/22/2004 3:18:44 AM PST by MrLee
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To: JohnHuang2

Oh Come, Lord Jesus, Quickly Come....


I never thought I would ache for that the way I do today. I guess because I've come to realize that the world will never provide what I'm looking for, and least the way it is today.


41 posted on 12/22/2004 3:23:28 AM PST by johnb838 (To Hell They Will Go. Killmore.)
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To: MissAmericanPie
i>It will be a time when good is called evil and evil is called good.

More than just hate speech, on issue after issue the world seems upside down.

42 posted on 12/22/2004 3:26:26 AM PST by johnb838 (To Hell They Will Go. Killmore.)
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To: taxesareforever

I believe as you do.
It will get much, much worse before He comes again.


43 posted on 12/22/2004 3:29:04 AM PST by mabelkitty (Blackwell for Governor in 2006!!!)
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To: richmwill

Jesus himself says to be ready.

And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times? Matt 16:3


44 posted on 12/22/2004 3:30:37 AM PST by johnb838 (To Hell They Will Go. Killmore.)
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To: richmwill

I agree.
Man is capable of unspeakable evil, and even though we live in trying times, we haven't even scratched the surface. There are still so many things that still have to come to pass.


45 posted on 12/22/2004 3:32:56 AM PST by mabelkitty (Blackwell for Governor in 2006!!!)
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To: Tristram Shandy

It's hard to get past that reconstitution of the State of Israel.


46 posted on 12/22/2004 3:34:07 AM PST by johnb838 (To Hell They Will Go. Killmore.)
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To: Bellflower
Who's the anti-Christ? Don't we sorta need him in this deal? Sometimes I wonder if OBL is him. The bible says the anti Christ will have a bad arm and a blind eye due to wounds during war. OBL has a bad arm and I don't know about his eyes. Maybe he will yet get a bad eye in another battle. Many Muslims already believe he is the messiah and Europe seems like it is not far behind. Just wondering not putting this out as fact, at least not yet.

A lot of people seem to make a sport out of identifying the anti-christ, dating back to the reign of Nero. Personally, I don't think Osama bin Laden makes the best candidate, too clearly identifiable as evil. I'm thinking someon emore underhanded, like George Soros.

As for a timeline, I think we still have a way to go, although I think it could easily be sometime this century.

47 posted on 12/22/2004 3:36:24 AM PST by shekkian
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To: shekkian

I think the bible predicts many anti-Christs. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot... all the most notorious mass murderers of history (million victim club)... hard to call them anything but antiChrists. Saddam was a piker.


48 posted on 12/22/2004 3:39:58 AM PST by johnb838 (To Hell They Will Go. Killmore.)
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To: PFKEY

actually "chiliasm" or belief in a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, is a very MINORITY opinion of Christians.

You should read "The Millenium, Four Views" by Clouse, (Inter Varsity Press), if it is still in print.

It proposes a set of questions to four solid, believing, scholars, all of whom attest to the integrity, accuraccy, and inerrancy of the Bible. They represent the "historical" pre-millenial position (a millenium, but none of the stuff about the "rapture" or re-instituting OT worship in Israel), post millenial (the belief that Christ will triumph in this world thru revival and issue in his "reign"-- this was the common view of those who founded the country...., we were in the midst of a revival that caused even heathen like Ben Franklin to posit that "the whole world was becoming religious"), a-millenial (a belief that the "1000 years" is figurative...., the predominant view among bible believing Christians thru history and today), and dispensational pre-millenial, a relatively late belief, spawned by James Darby and CI Scofield, with a little help from a charismatic woman in the congregation of Edward Irving (first "prophecy" of the "secret rapture" recorded in the history of the church) in 1860. This last view is very popular among fundamentalists in America, but not well known outside.


49 posted on 12/22/2004 3:43:15 AM PST by chronic_loser (Go to my blog: http://snarktown.blogspot.com)
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To: Glenn
"Who's the anti-Christ? Don't we sorta need him in this deal?"

What makes you think the anti-Christ will be a man? I'm guessing it's a female, and I bet she wears pantsuits a lot.

50 posted on 12/22/2004 3:47:09 AM PST by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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