Posted on 12/26/2004 4:36:26 PM PST by Brilliant
The price of unreliability is getting outrageous. If you want to buy what Consumer Reports has determined will be the least reliable sedan available in the U.S., you're going to have to shell out between $75,000 and $125,000. That's because the dubious honor went to a car Consumer Reports also calls "sumptuous," "quiet and luxurious" and "a delight to drive": the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.
Mercedes-Benz (a division of DaimlerChrysler) has been struggling with quality problems over the last few years. But the rest of the list of the least reliable sedans reads like the valet lot of a Davos hotel at convention time. Ten of the 11 are European-made and include some of the most celebrated and technologically advanced sedans on the market, including 3 Mercedes-Benz models, 2 BMWs and 2 Jaguars (see table). The average price: $51,000, compared with an average price of $32,000 for the mostly Japanese vehicles on the list of most reliable sedans.
The problems, says David Champion, a former Land Rover and Nissan engineer who runs the auto testing program for Consumer Reports, are electronic. "The engineers have gone a little wild," he says. "They've put in every bell and whistle that they think of, and sometimes they don't have the attention to detail to make these systems work."
The Mercedes-Benz S-Class has a computer-driven suspension system that reduces body roll as the vehicle whips around a corner. It has cruise control that automatically slows the car down if it gets too close to another car. Its seats are adjustable 14 ways, and they are ventilated by a system that uses eight fans to whisk away perspiration.
But drivers who responded to Consumer Reports' surveys cited "serious" problems with the vehicles' electrical systems, power equipment and accessories. The S430 Consumer Reports used for its own test came with a broken "back" button on the navigation system. One small mistake in entering a destination address made the system unusable.
Mercedes-Benz doesn't believe there's a problem, saying in a statement: "The data utilized by Consumer Reports is volunteered by [Consumer Reports] readers, not verified, and does not correlate to our own data or that of other surveys." In recent J.D. Power and Associates studies Mercedes-Benz scored better than the industry average for initial quality but worse than the industry average for longer-term dependability.
BMW says it has fixed the problems with its 7 Series-but not by making the vehicles any simpler. "People drive our cars because they're sophisticated," says spokesman David Buchko. "Our goal is not to take stuff out of the car but to make what's in the car as reliable as possible." Sales of the high-end sedans for both BMW and Mercedes-Benz are suffering. Through the end of October, 7 Series sales were down 19% from 2003 and S-Class sales were off 12%.
Porsche is in a bad spot. They make most of their money from SUVs now. The Boxster is seen as a "chick car". They make too many 911s to command the price of exclusivity (except for the turbo, GT2 and GT3), and a $48K Corvette runs head to head with it - for $25-30K less.
Heads-up - watch out for the next latest and greatest - steer and brake by wire. Not for me, thank you very much. Don't want to be around when those cheap connectors corrode and short out (or open ...).
When you say "no problems" what do you mean? Have you ever had the air conditioning serviced? Has an engine light ever come on? Are you saying that you've never had any problems, other than standard maintenance, or are you simply discounting the significance of the problems you've had?
Just curious.
I'm not sure that MB ever deserved their reputation. When I heard of the Chrysler merger, I thought "a match made in heaven."
Sounds like the German engineers screwed up the new Beetle according to a friend. He told me the Chilton's manual on oil changes begins somehting like, "Changing the oil is not easy on the Beetle." Of course, bring it to the dealer is what they want.
Yep...first one was a 2000, then a 2003. I highly recommend picking up an off-lease model. Audi lease covers everything, so they are well maintained.
Never had the air conditioning serviced on 4 A6's(my wife has one too). The engine light has come on a few times, but I have always been able to drive fine until getting in for service in a day or so. Any problems we had were very minor, not affecting performance.
I own the '99 A4. No problems(knock wood) except to replace the front speakers while under warranty. I love this car.
Yeah, my '72 Demon (slant 6) just keeps getting better. Bought it new in Oct. '71 and been driving it to work every day since. Original engine. Last time I replaced the alternator it took 15 minutes. Ha ha ha ha
Ya think any of these high tech cars will even be repairable in 10 (or less) years? Not a chance.
Which is why only a looney buys the first model year!!! I learned my lesson when young with a 1954 Mercury, the first year with the OHV V8. I have spent a lifetime trying to forget the experience.1991 Lexus LS400. Probably the most reliable car ever produced. 1993 Toyota Supra. Solid as a rock. Both first model year cars.
Toyota learns from "lesser cars". If you drive a 1989 Cressida, you'll know where Lexus got it's refinement. They constantly refine parts and tecnologies and use the resulting products in newer models.
Case in point is the Prius. They didn't start out with a Lexus hybrid (which is coming). They started out with a econobox.
They totally respect the luxury car buyer by supplying them with a car that has the benefit of proven parts and technologies. Put another way - Lexus owners are never beta testers.
I must live in the projects, compared to some of you folks.
A 1992 Thunderbird, and a 2000 Taurus.
Never left me anywhere but the place I wanted to go.
Saved a fortune...spent it all this Christmas.
I must live in the projects, compared to some of you folks.
A 1992 Thunderbird, and a 2000 Taurus.
Never left me anywhere but the place I wanted to go.
Saved a fortune...spent it all this Christmas.
So why can Lexus and Infiniti build in at least as many tech toys without these problems?
That's pretty much been my experience with my Ford. You're inevitably going to have problems. It's just a matter of whether you consider them significant. That's why I'm always a little suspicious of these polls that ask people whether they've had problems and they say "no." Do they really mean "no," or are they simply discounting the significance of the problems?
I've spent a lot of money having maintenance done on my car--brakes, belts, etc. All that doesn't count, though. It's to be expected on any vehicle.
They have more electronic engineers, and pay them less, so it doesn't cost them as much to make sure the electronics work.
Where did you ditch the Mercedes Benzs?
Ever own a Beemer? I own three.
"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier is is to stop up the drain."- Montgomery Scott
The dyno reads at over 322 bhp. Not bad for a 2,350 car. 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. It is difficult to keep the rubber on the pavement when under full acceleration.
I'm going to sell it and stay with the M5.
Our stable is strictly BMW products. M5, X3, and a Mini Coopers S. I will admit that BMW's I-Drive is for dopey old farts; who by the way, could never figure out how that dopey handle would ever work anyway. Munich F-'ed up big time with that marketing disaster.
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