Over-Engineering 101: Seems that the fancier-and more European-the car, the less reliable it is

Forbes Magazine via Yahoo! ^ | December 9, 2004 | Jonathan Fahey

[FreedomPoster]

There are certainly Porsches where that's the best way to adjust the valves. It wouldn't surprise me if there are some where that's the best way to change the oil.

[oceanview]

IBM has just sold its entire PC business (except service) to China.

[eno_]

A lot cheaper and absolutely perfect.

Dr. Deming taught the Japanese well. The foundation of luxury in Japan is that Things should Work Right. BMW still makes marvelous engines that can last forever, but the baubles tend to break.

[SpiritualPatriot]

As a former automotive design engineer, I can tell you "the most celebrated and technologically advanced" features and functions are a) engineered in an irrationally compressed timeframe to satisfy the program manager's (and corporate's) exceptionally aggressive schedule, b) thoroughly tested by "simulation" and only partially tested with real hardware because it costs money and time to actually test "real" hardware (and the models are SOOOO good [NOT!]), and c) manufactured in an outsourced, non-English speaking country, where manufacturing engineering is sporatic at best.

And of course, these are put on the most expensive cars, because the technology is not solid enough to put in the high volume cars until the "bugs" are worked out (can you say Recall?).

Give me a low-tech clunker ANY day - I can pop the hood and actually WORK on it. ;-)

[ReadyNow]

"People drive our cars because they're sophisticated," says spokesman David Buchko.

The cars or the people?

[KeyWest]

bump

[Kolokotronis]

Santa was very good to you!

[Gorzaloon]

Maintainability and Reliability go hand-in-hand with availability.

Yes, I can get parts for the Ford at laughably low costs..They make millions of them, and everyone sells parts.

But surprisingly, I have never had trouble getting parts for the Jag, if one does some online legwork. For example, I just got a set of fuel injectors. Since the system uses a common Bosch injector (It's an XJ40) there are about fifty models that use the same thing. When one gets bitten is when it is a Coventry part!

Well, it keeps my wife happy. She shows it at the annual concourse and takes seconds with it, and has a ...relationship..with it that borders on perversion.

[chilepepper]

more of a reason to buy the laptops IBM makes now, before the quality goes downhill...

[Disambiguator]

My '67 Pontiac Catalina looks better all the time.

[Gorzaloon]

As a former automotive design engineer, I can tell you "the most celebrated and technologically advanced" features and functions are a) engineered in an irrationally compressed timeframe to satisfy the program manager's (and corporate's) exceptionally aggressive schedule, b) thoroughly tested by "simulation" and only partially tested with real hardware because it costs money and time to actually test "real" hardware (and the models are SOOOO good [NOT!]), and c) manufactured in an outsourced, non-English speaking country, where manufacturing engineering is sporatic at best.

Which is why only a looney buys the first model year!!! I learned my lesson when young with a 1954 Mercury, the first year with the OHV V8. I have spent a lifetime trying to forget the experience.

Still have dreams about the '58 Studebaker Golden Hawk, though..WHY did I sell that!!!?

[investigateworld]

Just wondering: does the Asian concept of "face" inspire the auto manufactures there to do a better job?

[Gorzaloon]

But today was different: I must have seen at least 20 Ferraris (the new ones), a handful of the super-charged convertible Bentleys and a smattering of Lambos and other exoctics. (Porsches don't even seem to rate anymore.) Maybe it's the economy or maybe it's getting near the end of the year for tax write-off purposes, but it was interesting seeing so many on parade.

I suspect Porsche got a bad culture rap in the 80's-90's.

We had a young engineer, a recent graduate, show up in a new black Porsche.

People constantly ribbed him..making wiping-the-finger-up-the-nose gesture to him, explaining that they had a big party this weekend, and did he have an 8-ball hanging around, etc., others were asking for rentals of women.

He finally left and found a job somewhere else.

[q_an_a]

Lexus proved, beyond a doubt, that the Mercedes was a myth of advertising not a great car - gettting better. The only difference between a mercedes and a jag was the everyone knows that the english don't have a clue about electrical part in a car - so the jag and the MG was considered a mechanics car.

Add dodge technology to a mercedes and you get the making of two dead end streets - I hate the german auto and lazy managers.

[Disambiguator]

Never had a Mercedes. I like things that were put together by people who speak some approximation of my language. It makes reading the manuals easier.

"German, to me, looks like what worms do under rocks."

P.J. O'Rourke, "Holidays in Hell".

[ozzymandus]

When Benz bought Chrysler, I hoped the german quality would rub off on the crappy US cars. Apparently the opposite happened. Most German products tend to be overly engineered and complicated. They had the same trouble with their tanks in WW2. Far superior to the competition, (at least after the Panther and Tiger were introduced to counter the T-34), but if they break down every few miles, they're useless except as pillboxes.

[river rat]

If one were to select the automobile they purchased - AFTER visiting the production line where the car is built, Toyota/Lexus would win hands down....

To a Mechanical Engineer associated with high tech production lines my entire 44 yr career --- the Toyota/Lexus lines, and the professionalism of the staff working those lines - came as close to perfection as I've had the opportunity to observe.

The poor Germans have several things working AGAINST them these days: Strong EURO, Weak Dollar, Anti-American stance, Oil for Food Scam, Muslim workforce in factories and their most difficult challenge: Japanese excellence in design and execution...

The center of automobile excellence abandoned Germany..years ago.

Semper Fi

[NewLand]

Audi A6. On my second term and haven't had any problems in 5+ years now. Great car all around, better than BMW or MB.

I bought the last one before the Iraq war began...next time, we will get Japanese (Lexus or Acord).

[First_Salute]

R'44

[First_Salute]

1999 - 2003, it is a great car. Wish I could have afforded to buy one.Maybe I'll pick up a good used 2000 model some day.