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Over-Engineering 101: Seems that the fancier-and more European-the car, the less reliable it is
Forbes Magazine via Yahoo! ^ | December 9, 2004 | Jonathan Fahey

Posted on 12/26/2004 4:36:26 PM PST by Brilliant

click here to read article


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To: Gorzaloon

Porsche is in a bad spot. They make most of their money from SUVs now. The Boxster is seen as a "chick car". They make too many 911s to command the price of exclusivity (except for the turbo, GT2 and GT3), and a $48K Corvette runs head to head with it - for $25-30K less.


61 posted on 12/26/2004 6:41:20 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Gorzaloon
Which is why only a looney buys the first model year!!! Amen!!

Heads-up - watch out for the next latest and greatest - steer and brake by wire. Not for me, thank you very much. Don't want to be around when those cheap connectors corrode and short out (or open ...).

62 posted on 12/26/2004 6:42:40 PM PST by SpiritualPatriot
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To: NewLand

When you say "no problems" what do you mean? Have you ever had the air conditioning serviced? Has an engine light ever come on? Are you saying that you've never had any problems, other than standard maintenance, or are you simply discounting the significance of the problems you've had?

Just curious.


63 posted on 12/26/2004 6:44:46 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: ozzymandus

I'm not sure that MB ever deserved their reputation. When I heard of the Chrysler merger, I thought "a match made in heaven."


64 posted on 12/26/2004 6:47:01 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Salo

Sounds like the German engineers screwed up the new Beetle according to a friend. He told me the Chilton's manual on oil changes begins somehting like, "Changing the oil is not easy on the Beetle." Of course, bring it to the dealer is what they want.


65 posted on 12/26/2004 6:52:52 PM PST by Right Wing Assault (Wish me a Merry Christmas! I won't report you to the ACLU.)
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To: First_Salute

Yep...first one was a 2000, then a 2003. I highly recommend picking up an off-lease model. Audi lease covers everything, so they are well maintained.


66 posted on 12/26/2004 6:58:20 PM PST by NewLand (I'm a Generation Jones'er and WE elected President Bush!)
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To: Brilliant

Never had the air conditioning serviced on 4 A6's(my wife has one too). The engine light has come on a few times, but I have always been able to drive fine until getting in for service in a day or so. Any problems we had were very minor, not affecting performance.


67 posted on 12/26/2004 7:01:55 PM PST by NewLand (I'm a Generation Jones'er and WE elected President Bush!)
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To: NewLand

I own the '99 A4. No problems(knock wood) except to replace the front speakers while under warranty. I love this car.


68 posted on 12/26/2004 7:16:59 PM PST by nycgal
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To: Disambiguator

Yeah, my '72 Demon (slant 6) just keeps getting better. Bought it new in Oct. '71 and been driving it to work every day since. Original engine. Last time I replaced the alternator it took 15 minutes. Ha ha ha ha

Ya think any of these high tech cars will even be repairable in 10 (or less) years? Not a chance.


69 posted on 12/26/2004 7:17:38 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60's.....you weren't really there.)
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To: Gorzaloon
Which is why only a looney buys the first model year!!! I learned my lesson when young with a 1954 Mercury, the first year with the OHV V8. I have spent a lifetime trying to forget the experience.
1991 Lexus LS400. Probably the most reliable car ever produced. 1993 Toyota Supra. Solid as a rock. Both first model year cars.

Toyota learns from "lesser cars". If you drive a 1989 Cressida, you'll know where Lexus got it's refinement. They constantly refine parts and tecnologies and use the resulting products in newer models.

Case in point is the Prius. They didn't start out with a Lexus hybrid (which is coming). They started out with a econobox.

They totally respect the luxury car buyer by supplying them with a car that has the benefit of proven parts and technologies. Put another way - Lexus owners are never beta testers.

70 posted on 12/26/2004 7:18:12 PM PST by Rate_Determining_Step (US Military - Draining the Swamp of Terrorism since 2001!)
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To: Gorzaloon

I must live in the projects, compared to some of you folks.

A 1992 Thunderbird, and a 2000 Taurus.

Never left me anywhere but the place I wanted to go.

Saved a fortune...spent it all this Christmas.


71 posted on 12/26/2004 7:31:41 PM PST by Greenpees (Coulda Shoulda Woulda)
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To: Gorzaloon

I must live in the projects, compared to some of you folks.

A 1992 Thunderbird, and a 2000 Taurus.

Never left me anywhere but the place I wanted to go.

Saved a fortune...spent it all this Christmas.


72 posted on 12/26/2004 7:32:41 PM PST by Greenpees (Coulda Shoulda Woulda)
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To: Brilliant

So why can Lexus and Infiniti build in at least as many tech toys without these problems?


73 posted on 12/26/2004 7:35:46 PM PST by Kerfuffle
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To: NewLand

That's pretty much been my experience with my Ford. You're inevitably going to have problems. It's just a matter of whether you consider them significant. That's why I'm always a little suspicious of these polls that ask people whether they've had problems and they say "no." Do they really mean "no," or are they simply discounting the significance of the problems?

I've spent a lot of money having maintenance done on my car--brakes, belts, etc. All that doesn't count, though. It's to be expected on any vehicle.


74 posted on 12/26/2004 7:36:11 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Kerfuffle

They have more electronic engineers, and pay them less, so it doesn't cost them as much to make sure the electronics work.


75 posted on 12/26/2004 7:39:14 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: proxy_user
As soon as Nissan came out with the Maxima, we ditched them.

Where did you ditch the Mercedes Benzs?

76 posted on 12/26/2004 7:42:34 PM PST by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Ever own a Beemer? I own three.


77 posted on 12/26/2004 7:44:07 PM PST by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Brilliant

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier is is to stop up the drain."- Montgomery Scott


78 posted on 12/26/2004 7:49:05 PM PST by Squawk 8888 (With enemies like Michael Moore, who needs friends?)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
As a hobby, I built a 1964 Shelby Cobra. Ripped of the FI and put a normally aspirated Holey 650 cfm double pumper on top ov and Edelbrock RPM intake manifold. The mill is a 302 roller-tappet cam tricket out. The front suspension is dual coil-over shocks, the rear is a Jaguar independent suspension with 11" in-board discs.

The dyno reads at over 322 bhp. Not bad for a 2,350 car. 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. It is difficult to keep the rubber on the pavement when under full acceleration.

I'm going to sell it and stay with the M5.

79 posted on 12/26/2004 7:50:33 PM PST by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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To: foofoopowder
Well, you can git yurself a used El Camino or Ranchero cheap at the auction too.

Our stable is strictly BMW products. M5, X3, and a Mini Coopers S. I will admit that BMW's I-Drive is for dopey old farts; who by the way, could never figure out how that dopey handle would ever work anyway. Munich F-'ed up big time with that marketing disaster.

80 posted on 12/26/2004 7:55:30 PM PST by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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