Marine's sentence sparks debate

The Washington Times ^ | January 9, 2005 | Julia Duin

[No Longer Free State]

Seventh-day Adventists are criticizing the Marine Corps for sentencing a Marine to seven months in prison for refusing to bear arms after undergoing a religious conversion. (snip)

"In 36 years of dealing with these cases, this is the first one I've seen go so far," said Richard O. Stenbakken, a retired U.S. Army chaplain and Seventh-day Adventist Church pastor. (snip)

"There is no reason anyone should get a felony conviction for a religious conversion."

When ordered May 12, 2004, to draw a weapon from the unit's armory for a training exercise, the Marine refused. (snip)

"There is a certain criteria in meeting CO status and he didn't meet it," Capt. Pool said.(snip)

Pvt. Klimkewicz served with the Marines from 1999 to 2002, during which time he experienced a religious conversion. In 2002, he re-enlisted for two more years.

But by the time he joined the church in the summer of 2003, he had volunteered for two separate deployments in which he would help clear land mines in Iraq, a task that would not require him to carry a weapon or kill anyone.

[No Longer Free State]

So much wrong here.

First, he was convicted for disobeying an order, not 'religious conversion'. He was told to draw his weapon to bring on a military exercise.

Second, if the timeline listed is correct, he allegedly had his religious conversion BEFORE he reenlisted. If he had disclosed this 'conversion' he would have been (justifiably) denied re-enlistment (at least if the Marines do it like the Army does). Either his conversion was not sincere or his re-enlistment was fraudulent.

Third, volunteering to go remove mines is very sweet, but it's merely a pointless gesture because US troops are prevented by law from conducting demining operations except where necessary to complete military missions, such as clearing an airfield for our use, or to pick up mines we placed ourselves. I don't have the details at my fingertips, but we are prevented by law from doing demining for things like humanitarian operations.

Finally, even if he was engaged in demining operations, he most certainly WOULD be required to carry and, if necessary use, a weapon.

[No Longer Free State]

Ping

[rlmorel]

Not to be too harsh, but...

Screw this guy. I have nothing but respect for honest to goodness conscientious objectors, but this guy ain't one of them.

[caisson71]

The guy was a MARINE, for goodness sake! Every Marine is an infantryman. I think he got off with a pretty light punishment.

[Gondring]

Note:

   Marine Capt. Jeff Pool, spokesman for the 2nd Marine Division at Camp Lejeune, said Pvt. Klimkewicz, was denied conscientious objector status on March 3, 2004.

   "There is a certain criteria [sic] in meeting CO status and he didn't meet it," Capt. Pool said. "The military has to grant this."

I think this is probably right:

"...Someone decided somewhere he was being insincere and was trying to dodge deployment." "

[montag813]

Pvt. Klimkewicz served with the Marines from 1999 to 2002, during which time he experienced a religious conversion. In 2002, he re-enlisted for two more years.

He re-enlisted AFTER the "conversion". Religious objector my ass. Put him in the stockade.

[kennedy]

He's no Alvin York that's for sure.

[Echo Talon]

he had volunteered for two separate deployments in which he would help clear land mines in Iraq, a task that would not require him to carry a weapon or kill anyone.

This guy needs to go to jail. ALL Marines are rifleman.

[sgtbono2002]

The biggest problem is who is able to judge whether he is a Conscientious Objector or has turned Yellow.
If it were up to me I would give him a Dishonorable Discharge and be done with it.

[Cornholio-LGF]

I agree, he should go to jail. But I'm curious about how military justice works. "Klimkewicz was charged with 'disobeying a lawful order' to carry a weapon." What happens if you are lawfully ordered to, say do 50 pushups, and you're exhausted and can only do 40? I always imagine you'd get yelled at, get made fun of, maybe even get your ass kicked. But is that also a felony for which you can be sent to prison for?

[Echo Talon]

Well if someone was ordered to do 50 pushups and could only do 40... then what? he gave up? or he had a heart attack? In any case the man got down on the ground and tried doing the pushups... In this case the man just refused to get down on the ground....

[No Longer Free State]

What happens if you are lawfully ordered to, say do 50 pushups, and you're exhausted and can only do 40?

He won't get court-martialled, but he'll probably find himself doing extra PT until he can do enough to pass the PT test. But that would be retraining, not punishment.

[Former Military Chick]

First NLFS is my beloved and it is rare that he posts a thread (he does love reading and remarking), so this must have caught his eye and frankly his observations are on point.

This Marine is trying to get something over on the Corp and that is just NOT acceptable. In the end, beloved points out some important aspects that he felt were not addressed I hope you will check out his thoughts in comment 1! (yes I am biased, but, what a chick to do?)

[Quix]

Thanks for your sharp observations and perspective.

[Titan Magroyne]

While I can't cite USMC regs as to COs, I CAN say that it was always stressed to us that no matter what MOS we were, every Marine is a basic rifleman. From that I surmise that USMC would have disallowed his re-enlistment had he been honest enough to declare his CO status beforehand. But since he did re-enlist, he disobeyed a direct order to withdraw his weapon from the armory. Der, what did you expect, Marine? All of which leads one to wonder what training exercises he took part in before he finally declared Oh OK, this holding a gun thang is the last straw... The guy's a punk with no sense of honor.

I don't consider his sentence hard time at all under the circumstances. But if he wants to reimburse the money spent on his salary and training since he became a *sneer* CO, hey, I'd be willing to consider that a decent substitute. Not that anyone cares, LOL.

Nope, I wouldn't enter a mine field without a weapon in hand. It's a jolly good place to be pinned down by the enemy, for one thing, and I would expect my fellow Marines to cover my back just as they would expect the same from me.