Leaving the Brothel Behind

New York Times ^ | 1/19/05 | NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

[John Lenin]

But what you are seeing is the same results of what happens when the government controls the wealth in a country.

[Ditter]

Ping me if you hear about Strey Mom. I hope it is good news as well.

[af_vet_1981]

She is a happy, giggly, self-confident reminder that we should never give up on the slaves of the 21st century.

Bump for Truth

[af_vet_1981]

Oh yes, I forgot. Every Westerner in Thailand is a sex tourist. Right.

Every second, third, or fourth ...

The slave trade persists ...

Evil does not release its grip willingly.

[angkor]

Every second, third, or fourth ...

A Ding! for you for accepting MSM propaganda and for being a naive individual.

I know more than a dozen expats in Thailand. Not one of them is a "sex tourist."

As I said above, the largest group of sex customers in Thailand is the Thais themselves. Same in Cambodia. Same in Vietnam.

[af_vet_1981]

I know more than a dozen expats in Thailand. Not one of them is a "sex tourist."

The only one I knew was and I was shocked that he disgraced himself.

Then again men are weak.

[angkor]

what you are seeing is the same results of what happens when the government controls the wealth in a country.

I'm not sure it's that simple, though you do have a partial point.

Having spent a lot of time there, I can assure you that best description of Cambodia's government is "warlord kleptocracy". It isn't even close to being communist.

Yes, wealth is in the hands of the warlords, and they will do just about anything to get it: brothels, heroin trafficking, arms sales (almost openly and to the Tamil Tigers when I was there), and plain old graft and payola.

That's all an effect of the warlord society, and Cambodia is a nation of warriors, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Ironically, Nepal is having a true Maoist Communist insurrection which is aimed at the (also kleptocratic) Rana monarchy. And Nepal also has (or had) several "brothel towns" which were exclusively the domain of Nepalis and Indian traders. No Westerners, not one. They weren't allowed there. Despite those "brothel towns", there is no sex tourism in Nepal. Same in Delhi and Bombay.

The myth that Westerners are responsible for Asian prostitution is absolutely ludicrous and bizarre, though Americans are ignorant and naive enough to believe it. It starts with the locals.

[angkor]

Then again men are weak.

Really?

[EvaClement]

Thank you for posting this thread. I look forward to reading the sequel.

E.C.

[af_vet_1981]

Really

[angkor]

Really

That's about as profound as your previous gross generalizations. I see you have a flair for painting a great deal in the exact same shade of black.

[af_vet_1981]

That's about as profound as your previous gross generalizations. I see you have a flair for painting a great deal in the exact same shade of black.

Are you defending any business interests or is this personal for you ?

[angkor]

Are you defending any business interests or is this personal for you ?

Yeah, it's personal. I've done more than Kristof to solve the problem.

My beef with you is that you've twice regurgitated that MSM line that the problem is caused by Westerners, to wit, white males. That's wrong.

You've also grossly and with no evidence or backup whatsoever stated that "three in four" tourists are in Asia for the sex trade. That is simply a flat out lie.

You expose yourself as a naive propagandist by making such egregiously false assertions.

In truth the sex trade is a local trade primarily run by and for locals.

Now, why are you on this thread? You've contributed not a whit of truth or wisdom to this point.

[af_vet_1981]

Yeah, it's personal. I've done more than Kristof to solve the problem.

What have you done ?

My beef with you is that you've twice regurgitated that MSM line that the problem is caused by Westerners, to wit, white males. That's wrong. You've also grossly and with no evidence or backup whatsoever stated that "three in four" tourists are in Asia for the sex trade. That is simply a flat out lie.

You are not a very well educated reader. Your reading comprehension is inferior.

You expose yourself as a naive propagandist by making such egregiously false assertions.

I think you are uncomfortable because you are a western male and are trying to defend your presence there.

In truth the sex trade is a local trade primarily run by and for locals.

How would you know that ? You must have evidence.

Now, why are you on this thread? You've contributed not a whit of truth or wisdom to this point.

Because I hate prostitution and those who promote it, defend it, and profit from it

[wagglebee]

It's a well known fact that sex-tourism in SE Asia is a huge business. The governments turn a blind eye in return for kickbacks. In Phucket alone, there were thousands of European (a lot were from Denmark IIRC) MEN who were killed (the ratio of European MEN to women was completely out of sync with normal tourism). To defend this slavery on any level whatsoever is indefensible.

[af_vet_1981]

THAILAND (TIER 2 - WATCH LIST) [Extracted from U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June 14, 2004]

Thailand is a source, transit and destination country for persons trafficked for sexual exploitation and forced labor. Thailand is a destination for men, women and children from Burma, Laos, Cambodia, and China who are trafficked for forced or bonded labor and prostitution. Thai women are trafficked to Australia, South Africa, Japan, Bahrain, Taiwan, Europe and North America for sexual exploitation. Internal trafficking also occurs in Thailand, involving victims from Northern Thailand. Additionally, regional economic disparities drive significant illegal migration into Thailand, presenting traffickers opportunities to move victims into labor exploitation. Widespread sex tourism in Thailand encourages trafficking for forced prostitution.

The Government of Thailand does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking; however, it is making significant efforts to do so. Thailand's placement on Tier 2 Watch List is due to the government's failure to provide evidence of increasing efforts to combat severe forms of trafficking in one area: the protection of Cambodian trafficking victims, particularly those exploited in street work. The Thai government needs to take measures to protect trafficking victims in order to demonstrate significant efforts to eliminate severe forms of trafficking. In September 2003, the Thai government declared a national campaign against criminal organizations in Thailand including traffickers of women and children, the first time the issue has been publicly elevated to a national level priority.

[angkor]

You're a real twit. I worked for an NGO and had many friends who dealt personally (professionally) with the sex trade problem. I contributed money to the cause. There were some other involvements that (I have reason to believe) put some of these creeps into jail, or at least deported.

Now, you come to the table with some gross generalizations which I know from actually being there to be absolutely false. You won't admit it, but they are false.

And instead of questioning (let alone researching) your own mistaken assumptions, you just keep walking down the road of ignorance.

I'm flaming because it is knuckleheads like you who irk me. You just keep the (un)subtle insults flying while having not the faintest idea what you're talking about. You'd be a charicature of pompous naivete if you weren't so annoying.

[af_vet_1981]

It's a well known fact that sex-tourism in SE Asia is a huge business. The governments turn a blind eye in return for kickbacks. In Phucket alone, there were thousands of European (a lot were from Denmark IIRC) MEN who were killed (the ratio of European MEN to women was completely out of sync with normal tourism).

Those there for sex tourism deserved to die

[wagglebee]

And something should be done about the travel agencies who book these sex tours.

[af_vet_1981]

You're a real twit. I worked for an NGO and had many friends who dealt personally (professionally) with the sex trade problem. I contributed money to the cause. There were some other involvements that (I have reason to believe) put some of these creeps into jail, or at least deported. Now, you come to the table with some gross generalizations which I know from actually being there to be absolutely false. You won't admit it, but they are false.

And instead of questioning (let alone researching) your own mistaken assumptions, you just keep walking down the road of ignorance.

I'm flaming because it is knuckleheads like you who irk me. You just keep the (un)subtle insults flying while having not the faintest idea what you're talking about. You'd be a charicature of pompous naivete if you weren't so annoying.

So in other words, you are given to personal fits, your reading comprehension has not improved, and you have no evidence you have done more than the journalist quoted in this article.

Yet you are here and it seems as if you are defending this modern evil, at least in the context of the Western male tourists on the prowl for prey.