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Tollway funding is question of control
Fort Worth Star-Telegram ^ | Tue, Jan. 25, 2005 | Gordon Dickson

Posted on 01/26/2005 5:06:47 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

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So, is Cintra going too far in its collection practices, or are they in line with what other companies do? Texans may get to find out, very soon...
1 posted on 01/26/2005 5:06:48 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: 1rudeboy; 38special; Abcdefg; Alamo-Girl; anymouse; ArmyBratproud; barkeep; basil; Ben Chad; ...

Trans-Texas Corridor PING!


2 posted on 01/26/2005 5:07:37 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Free roads are an illusion. Somebody has to pay for them. If it's those who actually use them, that's probably more fair than most government programs.

You'll pay for them one way or another. The difference is that trucking firm from Chicago or Portland will be helping to pay for the roads they use to make their profits.

3 posted on 01/26/2005 5:24:58 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone

i agree with what you said.

but there's more at issue here.

1. why is a foreign company being chosen behind closed doors, as the article above states.

2. don't we have american firms that can do the construction and management?

3. we need american taxpayers and drivers involved in the political process.

4. as radio klbj said the other day, concerning freeways in the austin area, city council members have noticed discrepancies in the state department of transportation's disclosures.

everything need closer scrutiny, and especially the involvement of texans.


4 posted on 01/26/2005 5:44:50 PM PST by ken21
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To: ken21
I don't know the answers to those very good questions, although I am certain that American firms would be the actual workers constructing the highways through sub-contracting.

It does need to be more open and transparent. Construction jobs are often the biggest in this state, and we often know nothing about them until they're awarded. The potential for corruption is immense, even if it isn't occurring. There's no way for us to know.

5 posted on 01/26/2005 5:49:31 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ken21

While you are at it,

Insurance Companies, Trash Collection, MADD, Wind Storm Engineers and anybody else in bed with the folks in Austin.


6 posted on 01/26/2005 5:50:42 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: TexasTransplant; Dog Gone

yep.

dear student:

please check all of the above!


7 posted on 01/26/2005 5:52:33 PM PST by ken21
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To: Dog Gone
The potential for corruption is immense, even if it isn't occurring. There's no way for us to know.

Can you say, "Big Dig"? The way we'll know is when the cost overruns begin -- or when the toll increases start...

8 posted on 01/26/2005 6:03:43 PM PST by TXnMA (Attention, ACLU: There is no constitutionally protected right to NOT be offended -- Shove It!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Governor PERRY has to GO!
AND, , ,

http://www.firericwilliamson.com


9 posted on 01/26/2005 6:10:43 PM PST by MarshallDillon (<<<Click here to fight the toll road plan & RECALL MAYOR WILL WYNN the Double-Taxer)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
If the Pennsylvania Turnpike can make $320 million or so per year in profits, how much would the Texas Turnpike (or whatever it is called) be likely to make? Figure an easy $300 million per year, times 50 years = $15 billion or more.

Paying only $1.2 billion to the state and then $6 billion to develop it is chump change. Besides, the politicians will not actually use the windfall to reduce taxes but will treat it as "free money" to spend on pork.

I have not accounted for current value etc. since tolls will rise each year or few years to keep pace with inflation.

10 posted on 01/26/2005 6:41:33 PM PST by ikka
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To: Dog Gone
"Free roads are an illusion."

I'm not familiar with anyone asking for "Free" roads. What we're asking for is equitable treatment. Why should people who need to use limited access highways have to pay 22 cents per mile (gas tax and Cintra's toll), when people clogging up surface streets get by with paying 2 cents per mile (gas tax only)?

There are a lot of questions when the governor is permitted to go into a back room and negotiate a $7.2 Billion deal, without any input either from the legislature or the voters. That may not bother some people, but it scare the heck out of me.

Hopefully Kay will hand Perry his head in next year's Primary.
11 posted on 01/26/2005 9:14:11 PM PST by BobL
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To: TXnMA
Can you say, "Big Dig"? The way we'll know is when the cost overruns begin -- or when the toll increases start...

Toll roads in Texas have tended to be just the opposite. They get built faster and significantly under budget compared to public sector projects. The Hardy toll road in Houston is a good example of that. It was finished a year ahead of schedule and $50 million under budget. I've never seen state owned highways that got built as fast.

The "Big Dig" is a financed by the federal fuel taxes paid by drivers all over the US. At least with toll roads, the money doesn't get allocated according to which senator has seniority or which one is the party leader. I wonder how many people have died in other states due to the diversion of highway funds away from them postponement or cancellation of highway improvements.

12 posted on 01/26/2005 10:07:11 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

BTTT!!!!!!!


13 posted on 01/27/2005 3:10:56 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Paleo Conservative
"Toll roads in Texas have tended to be just the opposite. They get built faster and significantly under budget compared to public sector projects."


If it were only that simple, when you have back-room deals with Cintra. As the Canadians learned the hard way, there is no way to have a functional "free" highway system operating operating in parallel with privately run and protected toll roads. These toll roads will not get built UNLESS improvement of the "free" roads is stopped dead in its tracks, as is exactly what happened in Ontario. It was real easy in that case - the deal with Cintra was that any parallel improvement that reduces revenue to Cintra (i.e., maybe a widened, or even repaved?, I-35) means Cintra gets compensated for the next 50 years. The bottom line - I-35 is either left to wither on the vine, or tolls get charged on I-35, and all of that toll money goes to Cintra.

That, my friends, is simply a sellout.

There are other options.
14 posted on 01/27/2005 4:45:04 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL
Why should people who need to use limited access highways have to pay 22 cents per mile (gas tax and Cintra's toll), when people clogging up surface streets get by with paying 2 cents per mile (gas tax only)?

If all the state money is being spent on maintaining and widening existing roads, then the really big new projects can't be built with state money. Nobody is being forced onto toll roads in this state.

Nobody likes tolls but nobody likes taxes, either. Yet most of us like new modern roads. You have to pick your poison.

15 posted on 01/27/2005 4:25:38 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ikka

I didn't even know the PA turnpike was making profits. I thought it was having red ink problems, but maybe I was misinformed. One thing's for sure: whatever profits they're making comes from keeping the tolls relatively low (currently at about 6 cents per mile). If the Trans-Texas Corridor administration wants to actually see profits, I think they would be wise to follow the PA Turnpike's example.


16 posted on 01/27/2005 6:52:27 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: E.G.C.

5 cents a mile and no higher BUMP!


17 posted on 01/27/2005 6:54:20 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: Dog Gone
From http://www.firericwilliamson.com/expensive.htm:

"A 6 cent per gallon gas tax increase will raise around $840 million per year $630 million goes to transportation, $210 million goes to education

"$610 million per year is enough to prevent all freeway-to-tollway conversions, as well as build many of the new highways we need."

In addition to that, if the portion of the gas tax that was (mis)directed toward education was redirected toward roads, things would be even better. And if the gas tax were raised, as some advocate, by ten cents per gallon instead of six, things would be even better, and it would still be lower than it is in eight other states.

18 posted on 01/27/2005 7:07:34 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Why are you so fascinated with the politics of road construction in Texas? It's equivalent to me having an obsession with fishing regulations in Chesapeake Bay and setting up a ping list for that topic.


19 posted on 01/27/2005 7:25:28 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

They have a PDF somewhere on their web site (state.pa.us); they take in about $400 million per year, spend $50 million on maintenance and $30 million on wages (all those toll collectors making $40K + per year, plus the no doubt unionized maintenance guys), leaving $320 million of CASH which is promptly mis-spent by the thugs in business suits located in Harrisburg.


20 posted on 01/27/2005 7:25:46 PM PST by ikka
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