NY TIMES HEADLINE(FLASHBACK)-Germans Reveal Hate of Americans. Oct. 31, 1945.

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[paltz]

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Mark Levin, affectionately known as F. Lee Levin, as the legal division head here at the EIB Limbaugh Institute, has a piece that points out just how ugly it got in postwar Germany, too.

"With all the nay saying about our presence in Iraq, it's worth noting that none of these difficulties are particularly new. No postwar occupation has been without serious challenges, including the occupation of Germany after World War II. The New York Times ran a series of news stories in late 1945 reporting, in part, the following:

"Headline: Germans Reveal Hate of Americans. Oct. 31, 1945. (Stories)
The German attitude toward the American occupation forces has swung from apathy and surface friendliness to active dislike. According to a military government official, this is finding expression in the organization of numerous local anti-American organizations throughout the zone and in a rapid increase in the number of attacks on American soldiers. There were more such attacks in the first week of October than in the preceding five months of the occupation, this source declared. This official views the situation as so serious that he and others are protesting the withdrawal of 1,600 experienced military-government officers from the German governments on township, county and regional levels between Nov. 1 and Dec. 15."

Sound familiar? You know, this is what I call -- I don't mean to be redundant -- but historical perspective. So many people think that we've never been through anything like this before. "Iraq is horrible and wrong." It's understandable when you look at the press coverage the Democrats are getting, talking about this "micromanaging" every little thing that goes wrong. How many news reports were there of World War II when one or two soldiers died? Zip. We didn't know until we went to the Movietone news on Saturday. We didn't really see any moving pictures, you know, we had newspapers in their daily accounts. Not being critical, I'm just saying it's different. The coverage is different, but the reality is not different. What happens in war happens in war, always has, always will.

Another headline, November 18th, 1945, from the New York Times: Loss of Victory in Germany Through U.S. Policy Feared. November 18th. They thought we were going to lose. Our occupation was going so bad, that we were going to lose the war! (Stories)

"Grave concern was expressed today by informed officials that the United States might soon lose the fruits of victory in Germany through the failure to prepare adequately for carrying out its long-term commitments under the Potsdam Declaration."

Why, where have I heard this before? I think it goes something like this. [Doing John Kerry impression] "Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and thooose neocons, theeey didn't plan effectively for the aftermath! Whhhy, this is an abject failure. Whhhy, we're losing this war." Or losing the peace, whatever the hell they say we're losing. "They didn't plan for the aftermath. They had no idea what was going to happen." And look at this, 1945. This is almost 60 years ago, and it's the exact same thing.

"Might soon lose the fruits of victory in Germany through the failure to prepare adequately for carrying out its long-term commitments under the Potsdam Declaration."

"Germans Declare Americans Hated, December 3rd, 1945. (Stories)
An exhaustive compilation of opinions of Germans in all walks of life on their reaction to the United States occupation of their country was released this afternoon from the confidential status under which it was submitted to officials of the United States Forces in the European Theatre recently. Bitter resentment and deep disappointment was voiced over the Americans' first six months of occupation, though there was some praise for the improvements in transportation, health conditions, book publishing and entertainment."

The New York Times then, the New York Times today. Sixty years ago. Virtually identical. And one more, December 19th, 1945. "German Election Set In Towns of U.S. Zone. (Stories) "United States Seventh Army headquarters announced today that plans had been completed for initial German elections in January at Gemuende. A statement said that a vast majority of Germans remained passive in attitude toward politics and displayed no disposition to take over civic responsibilities."

Folks, just keep listening to this program. If you want to understand reality and truth and life and all these sorts of things. If you want to have an accurate portrayal of historical perspective, understand that what's happening in Iraq is quite normal, and, in fact, probably ahead of schedule, compared to Germany or Japan. Way ahead of schedule. It's good news. It's reason to be optimistic. They still got the same naysayers today as you had then, but what we have today is what we had then. We have committed leadership. What is so funny? [Talking to program observer] I'm not being funny right now, what are you laughing at in there?

I'll bet you we can find a German prison scandal. I betcha there were some scandals. I'll betcha there were. You think this is the first time we've had prison scandals? I'll betcha some people do. They try my patience in there. Here I am in the middle of being brilliant and they have to go off into jocularity, but I got the point out, folks, I was not distracted. I finished my point to you before I asked them what they were so rudely laughing at in there. We'll be back in -- I don't mind that you're laughing. I mean I love laughter. But now you got me -- I'm going to find a German prison scandal. I know there had to be one. Be back here in just a second. Probably Reagan was involved in it.

END TRANSCRIPT

[oolatec]

If only the links to the articles worked...

There are scans of some of the clippings here:

http://www.thecr.blogspot.com/2003_11_01_thecr_archive.html

[Nitro]

So, after 60 years the NYT tells the truth...

that means 90% of people under 15 can expect more lies.

[Waco]

In 1945 no one on the street particularlly gave a sh*t what the Germans or the Japs thought of US! Ha!

[MHalblaub]

You can't compare as you try Germany and Japan after the war with Iraq. Both had a well operating public administration and a juristic system. In general the populations were educated.

Just seven months after the war in Germany was over elections take place. Let me think, when was the mission accomplished?

Germany and Japan suffered long time from the war. The Iraq suffered from the UN embargo and after that even more from the demolition the US strike caused.

In my opinion the big difference therefor is the people were glad that the WW2 has an end. The Iraqis are frustrated at the moment.

[Michael81Dus]

That, and there hasn´t been reported deads among American or other Western allied forces after the war due to "attacks from civilians". There was no terrorist group active on May 9th 1945 or after that date. Live with it, neither Germany nor Japan had their Al-Zarqawis, therefore this analogy is plain wrong.

I´m not sure how the Iraqis feel, I tend to think they´re happy that Saddam is history but they fear the terrorists, and rightly so, IMHO.

[lizma]

There was no terrorist group active on May 9th 1945 or after that date.

The History channel did a documentary a few years back that claims otherwise. Interviewed our guys who had been attacked or witnessed them, showed clippings from the NYT that reported the same. I think the biggest post-war terrorist thugs called themselves The Werewolves.

[MHalblaub]

From the 'Werwölfen' is just known one assassination in which the the mayor of Aachen was killed. Some attacs from the Hitler Youth were also reported.

The reason was is for that is simple. 3 Million US soldiers were in Germany to controll one third of the country. The rest was controlled through Russia, UK, France, ...
The German police was never disbanded.

[Michael81Dus]

Nope. The very most reason was not the presence of US soldiers (and I doubt the number of 3 million), but the lacking will of the Germans to fight. Nobody except the Nazis and Stalin´s crew wanted that war in Europe 1939. The civilians (no matter which citizenship) were sick of being terrorized by Nazis and bombs and the former German soldiers were sick of fighting for a lost war. The people had not enough to eat, so why should they bother about the American occupation? Heck, the American sector and the GIs were the most popular of all! This analogy between Germany 1945 and Iraq 2003/2004 is nothing else but stupid and wrong. Oh, and there´s also a report in some of the "Urban legend" sites that proves me right.

[lizma]

I've seen photocopies of NYT's article written at the time reporting the opposite. Sorry but I believe our guys who were there and Condi Rice.

[Michael81Dus]

There has already been a discussion about it on FR- and the outcome is clear. Secretary Rice is wrong about that, and articles "of 1945" showing an evident comparison with today´s Iraq are simply faked.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/976319/posts
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/Ricehoaxedstoryexposed17jan04.shtml
http://hnn.us/articles/1655.html
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/germany-iran.htm

[Michael81Dus]

Please see post #11.

[Incorrigible]

You can't compare as you try Germany and Japan after the war with Iraq.

You're right! It's unlikely we'll still have US military forces based in Iraq after 60 years!

[Southack]

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nytimes/94029744.html?did=94029744&FMT=ABS&FMTS=AI&date=Oct+31%2C+1945&author=By+DREW+MIDDLETON+By+Wireless+to+THE+NEW+YORK+TIMES.&desc=GERMANS+REVEAL+HATE+OF+AMERICANS

[Michael81Dus]

1. I won´t buy this article, which isn´t one - check the urban legends links.
2. You don´t comment on this topic.

[Southack]

That article is on the NY Times' web site.

Choose the NT Times' 1851-1995 search option on the NY Times front page of their web site. Type in "Germans Reveal Hate of Americans" and their web site brings up that Halloween 1945 article (among others).

[MHalblaub]

You're right! It's unlikely we'll still have US military forces based in Iraq after 60 years!

I think you're sarcastic, aren't you?
For what did the US build their biggest embassy in Baghdad and why upgrading around 15 US bases in Iraq?

[Michael81Dus]

Again, comment and read the urban legend reports.

[Michael81Dus]

... or better: ask a Vet!

[Southack]

I am in no way validating the NY Times' veracity. I'm merely pointing out that the NY Times made the same claims about failure and hate in post-war Germany that they are making today about Iraq.