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America the Incredible
TechCentralStation ^ | 02/03/2005 | Douglas Kern

Posted on 02/03/2005 9:13:33 AM PST by Tolik

Every twenty years or so, we don the mask. The author on a uniquely American phenomenon.

He's a fairly ordinary, middle-class fellow who doesn't act as though he wields near-godlike power. But he's nearly unstoppable, capable of besting any imaginable enemy, and yet he seems perfectly content with his lovely wife, three kids, and a nice house in the suburbs. Or…almost content, anyway. Despite the edicts of self-righteous lawyers, carping media twits, and nitpicking politicians, he patrols the bad alleys of his city, looking for the kind of trouble that only he can stop. Oh, he's been accused of being the source of the trouble; he's been told that he's as much of a menace as his enemies, and he's been socked with colossal bills for all the damage he's inflicted in his super-battles. But he doesn't care. He knows, deep down, that the world contains supervillains that don't go away just because he wants a vacation. He knows the kind of suffering that could ensue without his intervention, and he knows that the local cops are worse than useless against super-powered foes. When his city is in danger, he can't turn away. So when the forces of evil threaten the innocent, he throws caution to the wind and teams up with like-minded friends and family to fight for freedom!

He's Mr. Incredible, the animated star of Pixar's latest box office super-hit, The Incredibles.

He's America.

Superheroes are a uniquely American phenomenon. To be sure, plenty of American immigrants played vital roles in the development of the superhero, as did gifted writers and artists from around the Anglosphere -- but the superhero was born, bred, and raised to manhood in the United States. No other nation has any comparable place for costumed crimefighters of any kind, in any medium. Indeed, outside of the Anglosphere, no country has produced a genuine superhero worth mentioning.

The superhero has displaced the cowboy as America's representative myth. The frontier has been settled for decades, and no one makes Western movies anymore. By contrast, superheroes dominate America's most successful movies, and comic books loom astonishingly large in the cultural mind of ordinary Americans. Most Americans can name ten superheroes, but not ten Apostles; more Generation X-ers can discuss the death of Phoenix than the death of Achilles. The explosive sales of graphic novels, comic book reprints, and superhero movies in the last twenty years can't be entirely attributed to the increased incomes of fat smelly fanboys in ill-fitting T-shirts. Superheroes are hot because they're telling us something about ourselves.

The central dilemma of the superhero story centers on the problems of power. How shall it be used? Who has the right to use it? How does it affect those who use it? And nearly every superheroic story resolves this problem in part through creation of an iconic superhero persona. Superheroism demands the creation of a second self, grounded in the same morality and history as the original self but with brighter colors, greater swagger, and an unstinting sense of self-sacrifice.

The superhero's solution to the problem of power is America's solution, also: we have created a second self. Domestically, we prefer a laissez-faire government that leaves us alone to pursue our own projects. But internationally, we recognize an obligation to confront threats to world peace -- and we detect that we are the only agent with the power and the will to do so. Thus, when evil looms large, America the tolerant and unimposing becomes America, the mighty and relentless. America, the purveyor of soft post-modern values, becomes America, the exporter of surly pre-modern men with rifles. The government that leaves you alone becomes the government that pulverizes you with its super Marine strength and Tomahawk Missile vision. The administration that couldn't find your country on a map yesterday becomes the administration that renames the cities on your map tomorrow. Off go the glasses, on goes the costume, and America becomes a superhero, fighting with astonishing powers in the name of the very ideals that give it the illusion of weakness and indecision.

Do we seek permission to fight for the good? Does Superman? Does Spider-Man? For that matter, does Mr. Incredible?

It's no accident that the four decades that featured the great popularity of superheroes -- the forties, sixties, eighties, and today -- are the four decades in which America flexed its muscles in the international sphere most forcefully. Whenever America exerts itself internationally, it does so with reluctance; the ensuing tension aches for the dramatic catharsis that superhero stories provide.

A powerful strain of isolationism lurks in our national psyche. Since the first days of the United States, wise voices have whispered to us that America is big enough and complex enough to absorb the sum of our energies; that America is strong enough and secure enough to ignore the follies outside of our own borders; that we are too good, or perhaps not good enough, to soil or be soiled by the world. These whispers haunt our struggles. Leave the heathens to their folly. Bring the troops home. Throw away the costume, Peter. Marry Lois, Clark. Get comfortable behind that desk, Mr. Incredible.

But sooner or later, the monsters invade the city, and superheroes remember what they have to be. And we remember what we have to be.

In each generation, the struggle is different. Superman -- a child of the late thirties -- reflects the problem of power as seen through the eyes of a first-generation immigrant. He comes to America from a distant land, an adopted citizen who gains extraordinary powers from the near-magical differences between the stagnation of the old world and the boundless possibilities of the new. For him, power is basically infinite; his struggles inhere in the imagination and determination he must bring to bear in using it -- and in the patience he must exercise in not using his power in his civilian identity. By contrast, Spider-Man -- a child of the sixties -- reflects the struggles of the second-generation American: possessed of strange (but not infinite) powers through the mysteries of science, he must reconcile his enormous responsibilities with his desire to lead a normal, fulfilling, unburdened life. When his responsibilities overwhelm him, he sometimes retreats into despair and selfishness, only to return to the fight with a renewed sense of purpose. Finally, Mr. Incredible -- a post-9/11 suburban American -- is indifferent to the origin of his power and comfortable with the use of it, but bedeviled by the enervating influences of modernism: bureaucracies, lawyers, and relativists who can see only order and disorder, rather than good and evil. Need I draw the comparisons to World War II, Vietnam, and the War on Terror?

Every twenty years or so, we don the mask. The fight isn't always selfless; the superheroes usually fight to save their home cities, often rescuing their own loved ones first. The fight isn't always without casualties, or collateral damage. And sometimes the fight compels us to accept some responsibility for creating our own villains -- as Batman and Mr. Incredible learned, towards the end of their respective movies. But we choose the fight just the same, without anyone's permission, and we do so in the name of what we know to be the good.

Yes, the good. No irony. No sarcasm. Perhaps no humility. But no cowardice. We insist: the good.

To understand America, you have to realize: it's an Incredible place.

 

The author is a lawyer and frequent TCS contributor. He recently wrote about Moron-Proofing Social Security.

 

 


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: douglaskern; genx; mrincredible; superheroes; theincredibles
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1 posted on 02/03/2005 9:13:34 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; Valin; yonif; SJackson; dennisw; monkeyshine; Alouette; ...

Nailed It!

This ping list is not author-specific for articles I'd like to share. Some for perfect moral clarity, some for provocative thoughts; or simply interesting articles I'd hate to miss myself. (I don't have to agree with the author 100% to feel the need to share an article.) I will try not to abuse the ping list and not to annoy you too much, but on some days there is more of good stuff that is worthy attention. I keep separate PING lists for my favorite authors Victor Davis Hanson, Lee Harris, David Warren, Orson Scott Card. You are welcome in or out, just freepmail me (and note which PING list you are talking about).

2 posted on 02/03/2005 9:14:30 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik

Interesting idea. If you look at the majority of comic books, though, they're absolutely NOT about moral clarity these days. They're nauseatingly PC, and instead of the great Marvel sophistication of having the heroics come with a price--innocent bystanders being hurt, heroes sometimes questioning their own actions--they're crammed with Mikey Moorisms (I think a Captain America issue made refernce to the War on Terror as being Fascist or something) and more "soul searching" than interesting stories. I'm basing this on a casual sample, though, since I haven't read comics in 20 years and am prejudist against anyone over 18 who's into comic books. :)


3 posted on 02/03/2005 9:20:01 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377
If you look at the majority of comic books, though, they're absolutely NOT about moral clarity these days. They're nauseatingly PC

I find it hard to believe that comic books like that are big sellers. I was never into comic books, but to the best of my (admittedly faltering) recollection there's probably no demographic more viscerally conservative than 9-12 year old males.

4 posted on 02/03/2005 10:02:37 AM PST by Stultis
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To: qam1; ItsOurTimeNow; PresbyRev; tortoise; Fraulein; StoneColdGOP; Clemenza; malakhi; m18436572; ...
Xer Ping

Ping list for the discussion of the politics and social (and sometimes nostalgic) aspects that directly effect Gen-Reagan/Generation-X (Those born from 1965-1981) including all the spending previous generations (i.e. The Baby Boomers) are doing that Gen-X and Y will end up paying for.

Freep mail me to be added or dropped. See my home page for details and previous articles.

5 posted on 02/03/2005 10:04:17 AM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: Stultis

Check out the comic rack. You'll see the average reader is a LOT older than it was when we were reading them, and the quality of the paper and art has improved accordingly, while the politics are pretty tansparently leftist.


6 posted on 02/03/2005 10:04:52 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Tolik

BTTT


7 posted on 02/03/2005 10:12:40 AM PST by knews_hound (Out of the NIC ,into the Router, out to the Cloud....Nothing but 'Net)
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To: Darkwolf377
They're nauseatingly PC...

I was NEVER politically correct!


8 posted on 02/03/2005 10:21:51 AM PST by Jonah Hex (A Freeper is the real man a liberal's girlfriend wishes she had.)
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To: Jonah Hex

LOL! Jonah Hex got pretty ghoulish and twisted twenty-odd years ago. The violence and depravity were pretty much ahead of their time, like the one where Hex was killed and stuffed. Mind-blowing stuff for a comic!


9 posted on 02/03/2005 10:23:43 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377
Today's comic books can be awful. Especially the real modern ones. For example, after 911, some liberal comic writer thought it good to make Captain America, yes that Capt. America, to hate-America.

If these comic writers were writing back in WWII we'd be speaking German and answering to the Red Skull.

10 posted on 02/03/2005 10:28:33 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: Darkwolf377
Yep, that was back when I was in college (late 70's). Weird westerns were in at the time...
11 posted on 02/03/2005 10:30:09 AM PST by Jonah Hex (A Freeper is the real man a liberal's girlfriend wishes she had.)
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To: KC_Conspirator
AH, so I didn't imagine that Capt. America thing, thanks for clarifying that.

Yeah, you're right, if this was WW2 we'd be reading about Red Skull being a product of a bad home, and instead of a shield Cap would deal with him using a red-white-and-blue box of Kleenex.

12 posted on 02/03/2005 10:43:44 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377

The article is right about America and superheros thopugh. No wonder the Incredibles did so well.


13 posted on 02/03/2005 10:48:26 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: Darkwolf377

Today's Capt. America would be marrying Bucky.


14 posted on 02/03/2005 10:49:11 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: Stultis
there's probably no demographic more viscerally conservative than 9-12 year old males.

My 12 year old son had to write a short essay providing his logic on whether nuclear power/energy eas a good or bad thing. His essay in favor of nuclear energy started out First, nuclear bombs are the best.

15 posted on 02/03/2005 10:52:33 AM PST by CharacterCounts
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To: Stultis
there's probably no demographic more viscerally conservative than 9-12 year old males

As a mother of a 13 year old male, I can assure you that your recollection holds true for many a young male today. Given that age bracket and recent events, I do see a strong tie between the events of 9/11 and the shaping of these youth. IMHO

16 posted on 02/03/2005 11:02:59 AM PST by momfirst
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To: KC_Conspirator
The article is right about America and superheros thopugh. No wonder the Incredibles did so well.

Ditto that. I love the correlation they made between the hero-of-the-day and the issues-of-the-day. Interestingly enough, I came to work today to find my e-bay-purchased Mr. Incredible costume arrived for my youngest son. (Wolverine and Spiderman suits are getting worn out....Superheroes ROCK in my house!) ;-)

17 posted on 02/03/2005 11:10:55 AM PST by momfirst
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To: Darkwolf377
If you look at the majority of comic books, though, they're absolutely NOT about moral clarity these days. They're nauseatingly PC.

Very true. And some of the older superheroes are now darker, weaker, less certain of themselves. That's because their writers and publishers are leftists.

The recent Batman movies are of that kind. Hard to tell which are the heroes and which are the villains, sometimes.

Mr. Incredible is the wonderful exception, a real hero for our time. No irony, no doubts, just plain heroism. And no family complexities or perversions, but just an ordinary, loving, nuclear family. That's why the movie is so wonderful.

Remember after 9/11 when the critics all said that Hollywood would now abandon its irony and cynicism. It did--for about 5 minutes. Then back to the same old doom and gloom. But ordinary Americans didn't revert, just the elitist self-anointed opinion leaders. Mr. Incredible speaks to real Americans, not the effete snobs of the left.

18 posted on 02/03/2005 11:13:51 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

I don't mind moral ambiguity or comic book/Hollywood leftist ideology in movies as long as there is representation--not even equal representation, just SOME--of the other views. Libs in Hollywood never seem to see how their practices don't follow their rhetoric, and in the case of the ideological bases of their movies, it just makes everything boringly the same.


19 posted on 02/03/2005 11:22:50 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: qam1
...speed of lightning, roar of thunder...
20 posted on 02/03/2005 11:33:55 AM PST by grellis (#47,569 11-29-00. See? I made it easy for ya!)
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To: Tolik

you have a "nailed it" pinglist?

please add me to it.
thanks.


21 posted on 02/03/2005 11:37:32 AM PST by King Prout (Remember John Adam!)
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To: Darkwolf377
If you look at the majority of comic books, though, they're absolutely NOT about moral clarity these days.

But the movies aren't -- at least the successful ones.

22 posted on 02/03/2005 11:54:04 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
I don't know, of the successful movies there were the Batman flicks, which were all about moral ambiguity, X-Men and X2, which were, too, and Daredevil, which fits in that category.

For those with more unambiguous good/evil, I am guessing you're thinking of Spiderman, both of which have an upright hero battling sympathetic villains who are "afflicted" with their badness, like it's a disease.

Incredibles isn't based on a comic book, but I gather it's a straightforward good/evil story from what I've heard.

So, I don't agree with your point, but maybe Incredibles will show the way?

23 posted on 02/03/2005 11:58:24 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377
If you look at the majority of comic books, though, they're absolutely NOT about moral clarity these days.

That sort of person desperately needs to feel superior to other people, and accomplishes that feeling by adopting a different, "higher" in their eyes, moral code. It isn't absolute, it is ever changing so as to always be superior to whatever cause the hoi polloi have adopted.

You have to be in the club to be good, and once you are in the club, nothing you do can ever be bad. To those on the outside, they look indecisive because they won't adhere to a strict moral code. But the reality is they are very decisively in favor of anything that enhances their own self-importance, and moral clarity diminishes that self-importance.

Under their leadership, America is always indecisive and weak because they have reject the obvious truths about what must be done to prove their superiority and greater wisdom than those who arrive at those obvious truths.

They are at once both narcisstic and nihilistic demanding the entire nation be sacrificed on an altar to their magnificance if that is what it takes to magnify themselves.

24 posted on 02/03/2005 12:12:45 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: hopespringseternal
Good thoughts.

The whole position that one is morally superior because one doesn't make a solid judgement of this being good and that being bad is ridiculous. When people talk like that I laugh at them--THEY don't make judgements that X is good and Y is bad? Please. Whoever got people into thinking that "I don't judge" is the statement of one with superior moral values should be flogged. And that's MY judgement.

25 posted on 02/03/2005 12:54:08 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: grellis
Aw, man, that song's too good to just post ONE line.

When criminals in this world appear,
And break the laws that they should fear,
And frighten all who see or hear,
The cry goes up both far and near for
Underdog...Underdog!
Underdog...Underdog!

Speed of lightning, roar of thunder!
Fighting all who rob or plunder!
Underdog, Underdog!

When in this world the headlines read,
Of those whose hearts are filled with greed,
And rob and steal from those in need.
To right this wrong with blinding speed goes
Underdog...Underdog!
Underdog...Underdog!

Speed of lightning, roar of thunder!
Fighting all who rob or plunder!
Underdog...Underdog!

----

On a related note, has anyone seen this guy at the same time Wesley Clark has made a public appearance?


26 posted on 02/03/2005 2:27:25 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: Darkwolf377

I have thousands of comics in my collection, and I'd say that you've got it wrong. Depends on the genre.


27 posted on 02/03/2005 2:31:05 PM PST by Melas
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To: Stultis

Pre-pubescent boys haven't been the comic book demographic for 20 years or better.


28 posted on 02/03/2005 2:32:29 PM PST by Melas
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To: Darkwolf377
there were the Batman flicks, which were all about moral ambiguity, X-Men and X2, which were, too

I'd have to disagree. There's never any doubt which characters are on the side of "good" and which are on the side of "evil". The characters do have more depth, though. Taking X-Men, you can at least understand why Magneto does what he does, even while realizing that it is evil. Wolverine is ambiguous at times about his loyalty, but when push comes to shove, he knows which side he is on.

Of the movies mentioned, the only character I can think of where it's really hard to place them as inhernetly good or evil is Catwoman from the 2nd Batman movie, as she had plenty of good justification for being as p***ed as she was...

29 posted on 02/03/2005 2:33:51 PM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
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To: Cicero
Very true. And some of the older superheroes are now darker, weaker, less certain of themselves. That's because their writers and publishers are leftists.

The recent Batman movies are of that kind. Hard to tell which are the heroes and which are the villains, sometimes.

Mr. Incredible is the wonderful exception, a real hero for our time. No irony, no doubts, just plain heroism. And no family complexities or perversions, but just an ordinary, loving, nuclear family. That's why the movie is so wonderful.

I don't get the adult attraction to the Incredibles. I saw the movie with my children, and I found it mildly entertaining at best. I did a lot of clock watching during the movie.

Not that it's a bad movie, because it's not. It's just a very juvenile movie, obviously written for young minds. Which is great, I took two young minds to see it and they loved it.

I totally refute that the weaker, less sure, more fallible heroes of your lament have anything to do with anyone being a leftists. It's a more mature look at the genre, and an adult fleshing out of the myths. In my opinion, it's very much welcome. Don't even get me started on how much I enjoy the irony.

30 posted on 02/03/2005 2:40:05 PM PST by Melas
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To: Darkwolf377
Here's what you're missing: The Incredibles is a kid movie, it's for children. The comic books, and the movies they inspired, left children behind a long time ago.

The original comic book stories were essentially 11 page strips with a beginning , an abbreviated middle and an end. The plot was always the simplest of obstacle met, obstacle overcame variety still found in children's literature. Comics weren't taken seriously then. The art was crude and simple, and the writing even more so.

That completely changed, and for the better. Real writers, and real artists began to take an interest in comic books as a new way to tell a story. Daredevil and Batman, to pick a couple that you mentioned were fleshed out by great writers who's work you'd recognize outside the comic book world. Guys like Kevin Smith, Alan Moore, and Frank Miller brought tried and true literary devices, personifications and character nuances that date back to Shakespear to familiar comic book heroes. They brought story arcs that allowed for stories as complex as any novel to be told in graphic form. In short, they grew up the genre.

The problem comes when people who don't get it, look to comic books to provide the juvenile two-dimensional stories of 50 years ago when the average reader was 9. Those people are always horrified to see what comics have become, because they're looking for something appropriate for the 2nd grade shelf in the juvenile section, and comics aren't about that anymore.

31 posted on 02/03/2005 2:54:16 PM PST by Melas
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To: Darkwolf377
I don't know, of the successful movies there were the Batman flicks, which were all about moral ambiguity, X-Men and X2, which were, too, and Daredevil, which fits in that category.

You have a point with X-Men and I haven't seen X2 or DD nor all the Batmans -- BUT the Batmans I saw certainly had villians who were evil and a hero who was good.

For those with more unambiguous good/evil, I am guessing you're thinking of Spiderman, . .

And Superman.

32 posted on 02/03/2005 3:14:41 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: Fedora; Darksheare

PING!! Thought of y'all when I saw this.


33 posted on 02/03/2005 4:25:37 PM PST by Alkhin (Tributaries - http://awanderingconfluence.com/blog)
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To: Darkwolf377; Fedora
What would make a good CONSERVATIVE graphic novel.

I say this as someone who is interested in writing one.

34 posted on 02/03/2005 4:26:59 PM PST by Alkhin (Tributaries - http://awanderingconfluence.com/blog)
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To: Alkhin; Fedora

Thanks!

I'm not much of an artist or writer for that matter.
I'm lucky if my short stories make sense.
*chuckle*

But if I ever get the writing style down, I think I'll continue the story of Karsh Kentu and the land of Kentothe.


35 posted on 02/03/2005 5:33:27 PM PST by Darksheare (Trolls beware, the icy hands of the forum wraith are behind you!)
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To: Melas
"The Incredibles is a kid movie, it's for children."

Every parent I know who's seen the movie has said, separately from each other, that they thought the movie was more appealing to adults than kids, and thought kids wouldn't get much of it.

The Frank Miller, Watchmen and that kind of "graphic novel" stuff uses some devices that were used by WIll Eisner decades before, and also used graphic violence and the "cutting edge" moral ambiguity stuff, which isn't anything new or deep, it's just taking stuff for little kids and transforming it into stuff high schoolers are into--sex, violence, etc. It's not emphasizing anything of value but is merely whetting appetites for violent movies and videos.

My work is very dark and violent (I write fiction), but it doesn't revel in it the way this crap does. And its audience is teenaged boys who are in their twenties-through-forties. THAT is my major gripe with it--it's fashionable nihilism for boys. Despite it's literary pretentiousness, it's masturbatory entertainment for retarded growth cases, and it's a lot of BS. It's as stupid as kiddie comics but more corrupting, and people praise it for being "literary" when it's merely morally ambiguous, and boring to anyone who wants to be entertained beyond the level of a high school kid who's into death metal.

36 posted on 02/03/2005 5:50:23 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: kevkrom

I'm not talking about who's on whose side, good or evil, but how the movie portrays those characters--OBVIOUSLY you know who the villain or hero is. I'm not against moral complexity, but these AREN'T morally complex--they're just the same old "understanding the villain" thing. All the villains need in these movies is a hug and to be loved. That's boring.


37 posted on 02/03/2005 5:52:07 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Melas

Somehow I'll survive being considered ignorant about comic books by adults who read them.


38 posted on 02/03/2005 5:53:04 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Alkhin
I don't know, I don't care for comics, but maybe by using the superhero format for an allegory about those who maintain their integrity and live by a moral code in opposition to those who have NO moral code whatsoever, who believe it's all relative, etc. The heroes don't have to be perfect--no one's suggesting that--but they should live by a moral structure and their defeats should be as a result of not living up to it, while the villains are nihilists. :)

The last thing I found halfway interesting was the graphic novel adaptation of I AM LEGEND, and before that was WATCHMEN, so considering that I used to own thousands and gave that up when I got into high school, except for the occassional Eisner or Wrightson oldie, I'm not a good source on comics. But good luck with yours.

39 posted on 02/03/2005 5:56:45 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377
Somehow I'll survive being considered ignorant about comic books by adults who read them.

Obviously, since you implied in the previous post that I (and those like me) are retarded growth cases. I didn't realize I was picking a fight here.

40 posted on 02/03/2005 7:17:08 PM PST by Melas
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To: Melas

You weren't, and neither was I. Just stating an opinion.


41 posted on 02/03/2005 7:28:21 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Tolik
American's have heroes and G-d to look up to. The heroes must be fearless and not hesistant to face death. And they must win. Americans understand that not all come back, but all win. God must be forgiving. He also is self-sacraficing.

American's expect the war to be over and the good guys winners after two hours. That is plenty time enough to get the job done with or without popcorn. If it takes longer, well, we'll just have to do it.

Americans also offer their sons and daughters without hesitation to preserve the liberty and peace of future generations of people they will never know.

Americans sometimes fly off the handle at people who don't understand how precious the jewel of freedom is. That's o.k. Sometimes the pressure just gets to them. After all, their sons and daughters have been lost.

Americans will forgive you for almost any transgression. They just want to live in peace and engage in commerce. Just don't try to prevent those two activities because Americans will make sure you will never be able to either. You will be dead.

42 posted on 02/03/2005 7:33:11 PM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: Darkwolf377
My work is very dark and violent (I write fiction), but it doesn't revel in it the way this crap does. And its audience is teenaged boys who are in their twenties-through-forties. THAT is my major gripe with it--it's fashionable nihilism for boys. Despite it's literary pretentiousness, it's masturbatory entertainment for retarded growth cases, and it's a lot of BS. It's as stupid as kiddie comics but more corrupting, and people praise it for being "literary" when it's merely morally ambiguous, and boring to anyone who wants to be entertained beyond the level of a high school kid who's into death metal.

You are conflicted. My whole family absolutely loved The Incredibles. It wasn't crap because it was sheer entertainment.

43 posted on 02/03/2005 7:40:19 PM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: groanup

You are the conflicted one--I never said The Incredibles was crap--I haven't seen it, but have only heard positive things about it.


44 posted on 02/03/2005 7:47:50 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Tolik

Let them fret over cartoons all they want; America is too busy bringing freedom and light to a dark world to care what others think of some aspect of its popular culture.


45 posted on 02/03/2005 7:51:32 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Darkwolf377
You are the conflicted one...

Then your post was very ambiguous. Not a good thing for a writer-for-profit. I apologize for mis-re-dis-interpreting it.

46 posted on 02/03/2005 8:01:30 PM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: groanup
"Then your post was very ambiguous. Not a good thing for a writer-for-profit."

Just because you can't understand what I wrote in context doesn't mean you have to be insulting. Maybe you've got self-esteem issues, but in the future, maybe you should read before you get snotty.

47 posted on 02/03/2005 8:11:57 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377
...before you get snotty.

Ta, daaaaa!

48 posted on 02/03/2005 8:24:23 PM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: groanup

Very good. Now go watch some more cartoons. :)


49 posted on 02/03/2005 8:46:16 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Brotherhood of Dim-Bulbs of the Illuminati!!!!!!)
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To: Cicero

Remember after 9/11 when the critics all said that Hollywood would now abandon its irony and cynicism. It did--for about 5 minutes. Then back to the same old doom and gloom.

Well if you can't trust someone who's job is to read what someone else has written and pretend to be someone else, who can you trust?
I know whenever I'm confronted with a moral problem I ask my self "Self what would Jennifer Lopez do in a situation like this?"
But for geopolitic's I like to look to Brad Pitt or Barbra Streisand for guidance.


50 posted on 02/03/2005 9:32:31 PM PST by Valin (Sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield)
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