"How, Red Brothers! You want'um any more fake Injun for pow-wow?
Seriously, man, we've hardly worked since F-Troop. We could use the bread."
Posted on 02/07/2005 3:29:27 PM PST by edfrank_1998
MONDAY, Feb. 7, 2005, 2:31 p.m. 'Little Eichmanns' prof to speak here
Ward Churchill, the University of Colorado professor whose remarks comparing the victims of the World Trade Center attacks to a World War II Nazi war criminal, is scheduled to speak at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater on March 1, a university spokesman said. Churchill, chairman of Colorado's ethnic studies department, was invited to Whitewater by a group of Native American students.
Churchill was scheduled to speak last week at Hamilton College in upstate New York but administrators there cancelled the appearance, citing clear and present danger of violence.
His writing, titled, "Some People Push Back," describe the nearly 3,000 who died in the World Trade Center attacks as "Little Eichmanns," a reference to Adolph Eichmann, who helped Hitler with plans to exterminate Jews from Europe during World War II.
-By Meg Kissinger
Miller, Jack millerjw@uww.edu Chancellor Office Phone: (262) 472-1918 Chancellor's Office Office Location: HY 400
Just as a public service and to correct the record, of course. I'm sure they don't want to be spending their hard-earned student activity dollars on a white guy . . .
I guess the fact that he is no more a 'Native American' than I am doesn't matter to these students - And why should it? That little inconsistency in this guy's story is the absolute least of his trifling with the truth..
From what I know of University of Wisconsin students - they couldn't tell if the sun rose in the east or the west let alone be aware of the validity of this idiots heritage.
This isn't at the Madison campus, it's at the Whitewater campus (a little southeast of the people's republic).
"How, Red Brothers! You want'um any more fake Injun for pow-wow?
Seriously, man, we've hardly worked since F-Troop. We could use the bread."
Actually, this campus is pretty conservative. They have a strong business program here. Of course they have their kooks, but generally it's a conservative place.
That's what I had thought. I know about their business program (I'm closer to Milwaukee), so you're probably right. The timing of the announcement sure is interesting in view of the other information that's come to light.
I guess the littlest Eichmann is the one on the left. Her name was Juliana McCourt. She died on Flight 175, along with her mother, Ruth McCourt (pictured), and her mother's friend (Paige Hackel) who was on Flight 11.
I knew both of those women. One was a family friend.
Words cannot express my outrage at Ward Churchill or any institution that would give him a platform or provide him with even part of a living. May he never know a moment's peace.
UW-Stevens Point grad here. You're almost half right though. Was raised out on the prairie & ever since I've moved to the Big Woods, I've had problems knowing east from west but only when the sun isn't shining...
was invited to Whitewater by a group of Native American students.
Any idea how many NA's on the Whitewater campus? Up here at Stevens Point, there was a bare handful while I was enrolled...2001 grad.
Here's his article:
found at: http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill.html
"If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it."
His claim as a Keetoowah Band Cherokee has been discredited (by the Keetoowah). AIM specifically says that Churchill doesn't speak for them.
We'll have to disagree on Mr. Churchill.
Wheaton College, Norton Mass. had Ward Churchill scheduled as a speaker on March 29 th.
I sent them an e-mail and got this response.
Dear Tom,
Ward Churchill will not be speaking at Wheaton. He had been invited to participate in a panel discussion on conflict and genocide, but the college has rescinded its invitation.
Michael Graca
Director, Communications
Wheaton College, Norton MA
I don't understand.
What is your position regarding him?
Oh my, I'll bet you think Christopher Columbus day shouldn't be celebrated anymore either. You think American Indians think we were systematically committing genocide? Did you just come over from DU or what?
I'm surprised they invited him in the first place. Wheaton College is about as conservative college as they come.
I can believe that too..Sad..
hoods....
white sheets....
bucket of hot tar.....
feathers.....
the is the recipe for Ward pie
So sorry for you buddy..Perhaps you should email the school with that post and picture. I would
Hey, why can't I buy Point Beer out here in Maryland hey. Yah, been to your campus many times for wrestling meets when I went to Ripon don't-cha-know.
Who here can tell me what a bubbler is for cripes sake?
Trouble is, this nut case isn't even Indian. While he claims to be, all he has is an honorary membership to some tribe, kind of like a key to the city thing. But he is as much Indian as the Queen of England.
Sorry, wrong Wheaton College...yikes!
there's no 'wrong' side?
have you been smokin' dat kill, homez?
Yes I came over from DU. That is why I disagree with you. Plus you are clearly much smarter than I am and have all the correct answers. You have cowed me with your remarks.
If you took the trouble to actually read my post without your bias glasses on you would have picked up that I AGREE with the attack on the Muslims. I actually think we should stop messing around and fight a total war, wiping them off the planet.
I also agree with the successful attack on the Native Americans, but my point is that they do NOT.
If the Indians were not nearly wiped out where the heck did they all go? Why don't they still have this land? I don't know if the Genocide was systematic but most of them and their civilization is gone that is for sure.
I like Columbus day, although in all fairness it should be Vikings day as they were the first ones here that we know of.
Oh and the personal attack and assumptions about me are a nice touch as well.
Now that I think of it why don't we just post all the opinions we are supposed to have and I'll make sure to have them. Or I'll just email you and you can tell me what to think.
You asked:
"What is your position regarding him?"
I strongly disagree with statements like this:
found at: http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill.html
"As to those in the World Trade Center . . .
Well, really. Let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire – the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved – and they did so both willingly and knowingly. Recourse to "ignorance" – a derivative, after all, of the word "ignore" – counts as less than an excuse among this relatively well-educated elite. To the extent that any of them were unaware of the costs and consequences to others of what they were involved in – and in many cases excelling at – it was because of their absolute refusal to see. More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it."
Civilians of a sort? He is wrong.
He is also wrong to pass himself off as a member of the Keetoowah Band and use that falsehood to legitimize his arguments.
Here's what the American Indian Movement told him (and the University of Colorado) in 1993 (these are images of the pages of a fairly long letter):
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_Morris11_24_93.jpg
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_MorrisLtr2.jpg
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_MorrisLtr3.jpg
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_MorrisLtr4.jpg
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_MorrisLtr5.jpg
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_MorrisLtr6.jpg
http://www.aimovement.org/csi/LettersWeb/Churchill_MorrisLtr7.jpg
This letter gives a bit of history, but it is interesting in that the American Indian Movement was very clear on page 7. Churchill and Glenn Morris (then Department of Political Science at U Colorado) were expelled from AIM and directed (in bold) to refrain from disrupting the Indian Movement. Or on page 5, "You, Mr. Churchill, after a period of time, which you declared yourself a member of various Indian groups including Creek/Cherokee, now identify yourself as Creek/Cherokee and Metis. To the knowledge of most Indian people, you are the first to declare yourself "Metis" here in the U.S." No mention of the Keetoowah back in 1993. The Keetoowah connection (or lack thereof) has been discussed on another thread here.
I see him as having some flaws. He is, of course, entitled to his opinion. I don't agree with him and I don't want my state tax dollars providing support for him or his views. On 1 March he is scheduled to participate in a day long "Native Pride Day" at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater (a state school). I don't believe he's a member of a tribe or band and on that basis (on which he promotes himself) should not appear there.
You said:
"hoods....
white sheets....
bucket of hot tar.....
feathers.....
the is the recipe for Ward pie"
Nope. Besides, he's speaking at Whitewater, not in Edgerton.
I feel your pain--sincerely
Ain'a so?
Don't you see his point though? About how our enemies past and present see things? It is perspective: imagine the perspective of the people of Gaul toward Rome.
I saw him on the interview, he is clearly of Native American descent. I think they are distancing themselves from him.
He sure looks like he is. Plus he thinks he is so he regards himself as a member of that group.
the right side doesn't fly airplanes into skyscrapers or behead people.
we're the right side. if you don't think america's ABSOLUTELY the right side, then maybe a move to france should be thought of.
i grew up in ohio and there's nothing wrong with my english, thank you very much. just having some fun. i'd be perfectly happy to translate the last sentence in that post for you, you poor culturally deprived child.....
You asked:
"Don't you see his point though? About how our enemies past and present see things? It is perspective: imagine the perspective of the people of Gaul toward Rome.
I saw him on the interview, he is clearly of Native American descent. I think they are distancing themselves from him. "
You previously asked me a specific question and I gave you a detailed answer (with references). And this is all you ask? Have you read his article? Did you read the letter from the American Indian Movement? AIM wrote that in 1993. How can they be distancing themselves now?
4 airplanes went down on 9/11. They didn't have to. Churchill thought it justified and a rational act of war. He's wrong.
I knew Ward Churchill was scheduled here in Massachusetts at Wheaton College on March 29th.
I waited awhile to give Wheaton a chance to dump him or standby him.
I e- mailed Wheaton College last night and today I got the reply that his invitation was recinded.
I was glad to hear that. - Tom
This isn't some racist genocide as Native American activists have portrayed it. The settlement of the American frontier was just another episode of the clash between a hunter/gatherer civilization, which requires huge amounts of land to support a small population, and agriculturalists, who support far larger numbers but limit the herds. This clash has been going on ever since domestic agriculture was invented in Mesopotamia thousands of years ago. The agriculturalists always win.
(Please, I know there were some Native American agriculturist tribes, but they occupied a very small part of the American landmass.)
Here's another from his essay:
"Hence, it can be concluded that ravings carried by the "news" media since September 11 have contained at least one grain of truth: The peoples of the Mideast "aren't like" Americans, not least because they don't "value life' in the same way. By this, it should be understood that Middle-Easterners, unlike Americans, have no history of exterminating others purely for profit, or on the basis of racial animus. Thus, we can appreciate the fact that they value life – all lives, not just their own – far more highly than do their U.S. counterparts."
I've been to ogrish and viewed videos of beheadings. He's wrong about them valuing "all lives, not just their own - far more highly than do their U.S. counterparts."
The Native Americans have made an enormous mistake by staying on the reservations. The European-Americans made their own painful transition from an agricultural to an industrial and urban economy. This has been very painful for the rural areas that have lost population and whole towns as fewer farmers are needed. By staying on the reservations, the Native Americans place themselves in an economically untenable position - there's not enough work in those rural areas and never will be.
Why wouldn't the land look empty to the Indian agriculturalists as well?
That is the main problem with your Thesis.
"Most of your post doesn't make much sense."
Sorry. But some of the ancillary stuff that might have confused you is just too much work to explain properly.
Aren't 90% of college students "native Americans"? Perhaps they should check and see whether any of these people are really Indians.
Me too.
You said:
"My whole point of being annoying about this is that his essay points out a truth of our existence on this planet. That groups of humans struggle for dominance and that is the way it has to be."
That's the nature of the beast at any level. I think the difference is our "dominance" is a dominance that permits an individual to think or do pretty much what he wants (within societal limits established as laws). Opportunity dominance, if you will. Other systems of government and society don't like or want that (see WWII and Hitler or any number of current demagogues).
Our republic is different. In a sense, our message is "Knock off the foolishness and let's make some money." And the individual has an opportunity to share in that.
Groups struggling for dominance within our republic could be call political parties, among others. We manage to hold our elections without warfare, for the most part. And we don't impose our system on others without provocation or reason. We left governments in Europe pretty much the way they were after WWII (active monarchies remained and republics like Germany restored). We didn't arbitrarily impose our system on everyone. I don't think Churchill would make that distinction.
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