Posted on 02/18/2005 11:27:18 PM PST by churchillbuff
As I said, when your IQ improves, then there might be a possibility of debate. As it stands, you are woefully handicapped. AND DON'T GO AWAY MAD.......just go away :)
A lie in the first line is usually an indicator of a slavery apologist.
In post #171, I said that "the Proclamation freed no one." You responded in post #174 by saying that "someone should have told Douglass that the Emancipation Proclamation did nothing to free the slaves." You were, in effect, saying that the Proclamation freed the slaves.
If anyone here is lying, it isn't me.
Sure. Only if you preface your replies to me in the same manner. ;-)
Regardless of what you think, it's the truth. Lincoln knew he didn't have the constitutional authority to end slavery by executive order. The Emancipation Proclamation was purely a political move on his part.
Look at the results of the latest FR poll.
Uh, I'm not Frederick Douglass. Quoting the importance of the Proclamation to someone else doesn't mean I'm saying it. You didn't know that?
You REALLY need to learn some basic English!
No, I'm talking about a barf alert for your 'slave insurrection' nonsense.
I'm with you. I used to think otherwise. But I have to wonder why America was the only country that had to fight a war in order for slavery to end. All of the others had done so peacefully. There is no reason to think that it couldn't have been phased out here somehow.
All the centralizers and statists adore Lincoln, from the neocons to the communist Lincoln Brigades of the Spanish civil war.
Well...mighty brave of you to insult me while hiding behind your PC....Come visit Texas. We know how to handle *ssholes like you......Yankee ones at that. :)
Bye mentally challenged one! :)
And you need to learn period.....
(yawn) Yeah, ok, great post, you done with your completely worthless babyish posts? MAN... "You need to learn". Really contributing to the discussion, dude! Now go back to watching your cartoons.
OFFICERS AND MEN:Dahlgren confided his secret orders to Capt. John McEntee (see The Secret War for the Union). Gen Ben. F. Bultler has proposed a similar scheme which Lincoln & Stanton approved but failed in execution. Seeing the river too high, Dahlgren hung his guide, a black freedman in a fit of rage. Dahlgren's notebook included, 'a set of notations referring to planning for the raid and for carrying it out, including the stark direction: "Jeff Davis and Cabinet must be killed on the spot."'*
You have been selected from brigades and regiments as a picked command to attempt a desperate undertaking—an undertaking which, if successful, will write your names on the hearts of your countrymen in letters that can never be erased, and which will cause the prayers of our fellow-soldiers now confined in loathsome prisons to follow you and yours wherever you may go. We hope to release the prisoners from Belle Island first, and having seen them fairly started, we will cross the James River into Richmond, destroying the bridges after us and exhorting the released prisoners to destroy and burn the hateful city; and do not allow the rebel leader Davis and his traitorous crew to escape. ...Guides.—Pioneers (with oakum, turpentine, and torpedoes), signal officer, quartermaster, commissary. Scouts and pickets. Men in rebel uniform. These will remain on the north bank and move down with the force on the south bank, not getting ahead of them, and if the communication can be kept up without giving an alarm it must be done; but everything depends upon a surprise, and no one must be allowed to pass ahead of the column. Information must be gathered in regard to the crossings of the river, so that should we be repulsed on the south side we will know where to recross at the nearest point. All mills must be burned and the canal destroyed, and also everything which can be used by the rebels must be destroyed, including the boats on the river. Should a ferry-boat be seized and can be worked, have it moved down. Keep the force on the south side posted of any important movement of the enemy, and in case of danger some of the scouts must swim the river and bring us information. As we approach the city the party must take great care that they do not get ahead of the other party on the south side, and must conceal themselves and watch our movements. We will try and secure the bridge to the city, 1 mile below Belle Isle, and release the prisoners at the same time. If we do not succeed they must then dash down, and we will try and carry the bridge from each side. When necessary, the men must be filed through the woods and along the river bank. The bridges once secured, and the prisoners loose and over the river, the bridges will be secured and the city destroyed. The men must keep together and well in hand, and once in the city it must be destroyed and Jeff. Davis and cabinet killed. Pioneers will go along with combustible material. The officer must use his discretion about the time of assisting us. Horses and cattle which we do not need immediately must be shot rather than left. Everything on the canal and elsewhere of service to the rebels must be destroyed.
The War of The Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies, Washington DC: Government Printing Office (1891), Series 1, Vol. 33, pp. 219-220 (similar on p. 178 and 179)
* For a detailed analysis, see The Dahlgren Papers Revisited by Stephen W. Sears
You are the funniest thing I have ever seen...I'll just stay a while and watch you pontificate.....
My My...I would LOVE to see the look on old Non-Issue's face when he reads this posting.....Thanks Pard!
Let's get back to the original subject, shall we? Above is the claim made by TexConfederate which started the whole thread. Nothing he has shown or you have shown supports that claim. Nothing either of you have shown supports the claim that Dahlgren was ordered to do anything but free the prisoners in Libby. Your post from the History.net offers speculation but at best it's paper trail begins and ends with Dahlgren and Kilpatrick.
I know what you meant. Not really sure why you think it's nonsense, though. If the point was to free the slaves--if he indeed had that power--then Lincoln would have included ALL slaves, not just those in the South.
And you really need to learn how to post in a discussion forum. You see, when someone cuts and pastes a third-party quote in lieu of his or her own opinion, it's usually assumed that the poster was using that quote to bolster his or her own position.
In my post #171, I was addressing a point you made in post #127. You responded with two posts: one included the sarcastic remarks, "The slaves were freed by Jefferson Davis, I guess" (something I never even implied) and "Lincoln had nothing to do with it"; the other was the Frederick Douglass quote. When I said that Lincoln didn't have the power to end slavery with the stroke of a pen, you replied, "I never said that."
Sorry, but that's exactly what you implied when you responded to my post about the Emancipation Proclamation. It's ridiculous to address a specific point I made with a post about what someone else thought, especially when you go on to admit that it doesn't even represent your own position. If you'd like to try to take on the points I made, go ahead. Just don't resort to cut-and-paste tactics.
If you want to continue squabbling about what your intent was when you posted a third-party quote, then our discussion is over. I would much rather save my energy for someone willing to engage in actual debate.
That was because he realized that even though they would be free, they would nevertheless never be treated equally. He clearly foresaw the Jim Crow era and thought that only amongst themselves could they achieve true equality.
Fredrick Douglass argued against this reasoning, even though he understood the difficulties (or thought he did) that blacks would face. In hindsight of a century and a half it was Douglass that was most correct, although a century ago one couldn't have said that.
The Supreme Court had already established the legality of the Confiscation Acts which allowed the government to seize without compensation private property if it was used to further the cause of the rebellion. The Emanicpation Proclamation can be seen as a continuation of that. Slaves were used in support of the rebellion, freeing them in those states in rebellion was a valid tool to be used against the southern war effort.
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