Posted on 03/03/2005 3:22:46 PM PST by RKBA Democrat
As the gaggle of gun enthusiasts with their assorted handguns sitting openly on their hips dined on hamburgers and chicken tenders at the Fuddruckers restaurant in Annandale, Victor Castellon's eyes grew wide with concern.
"I've got to be careful with these guys because they've got guns," he said, sitting at a nearby table with his girlfriend. "It's like the old West." Castellon was observing members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, an organization that believes gun owners have the right to carry their guns anywhere — including restaurants like Fuddruckers that serve alcohol.
Under Virginia law, carrying a concealed firearm in a bar or restaurant where alcohol is served is illegal, even if the gun owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. But anyone may "open carry" handguns in those establishments, just so long as the gun is visible. Restaurants and bars may post signs stating firearms are prohibited, but few establishments have done so. Two weeks ago, a House of Delegates committee killed a bill that would have prohibited restaurants that offer mixed drinks from serving people who are lawfully carrying firearms. The bill, SB 759, had been unanimously approved by the Senate in late January. "My constituents don't want to walk into a restaurant that serves alcohol and see people carrying guns," said Sen. Janet Howell (D-32), the bill's sponsor. "I've had dozens of e-mails from people who are both angry and frightened about open carrying."
THE GUN-CARRYING members of VCDL resent the implication that they and other Virginia gun owners are not responsible enough to carry their weapons in bars and restaurants.
"I think it's kind of a bizarre thing," said Jim Snyder, VDCL's vice president who lives in eastern Fairfax County. "Why shouldn't a person carrying a gun be able to enjoy a meal? They need to target the bad guys. That law targets the good guys."
VCDL members and other Fairfax County residents who routinely open carry say they are law-abiding citizens merely exercising their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. "We carry guns for self defense," said Philip Van Cleave, the group's president and a software designer. "They're for life and death situations." VCDL has roughly 2,000 members and represents Virginia's 111,000 concealed-carry permit holders, 16,000 of whom reside in Northern Virginia.
LAST JULY, 13 members of Virginia Citizens Defense League openly carried their handguns at Champps Americana Restaurant in Reston. The manager called in Fairfax County police officers, who incorrectly believed it was illegal to carry firearms in an ABC-licensed establishment.
That incident drew national attention to the gun-carrying phenomena in Northern Virginia that continues on an almost weekly basis. Three weeks ago Fairfax County police were called to the Red Robin Restaurant in Chantilly after a group of gun owners entered with their guns visible on their hips. They had just finished target practice at a nearby shooting range. But usually other restaurant patrons either do not notice or simply assume they are undercover law enforcement officers, they said.
"It's still a problem for us sometimes, but most people don't even seem to care," said Rudolph DiGiacinto, a Fairfax gun enthusiast and legal researcher who was present at the Champps and Red Robin incidents. "We're open carrying legally." When they carry their firearms openly at restaurants, they say they are careful to never drink alcoholic beverages. "We don't want to make ourselves targets for law enforcement," said Mike Stollenwerk, a Fairfax County resident who carried a visible 9-mm Beretta at Fuddruckers the other night. Virginia Citizens Defense League's top legislative goal is to allow concealed-carry permit holders to bring their hidden guns into bars and restaurants.
HOWELL'S BILL was defeated by the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. Del. Chap Petersen (D-37), one of only two Northern Virginia lawmakers on the committee, said Howell's bill and the proposed lifting of the concealed-weapon restaurant ban both boil down to a balance between the restaurant owner's right to a safe establishment and the gun owners' right to bear arms.
"There needs to be some meeting of the minds between the two groups," he said. "I do believe that restaurant owners should know who on their property has firearms." Petersen, who voted against killing Howell's bill, said it and other gun control measures resulted in little change during this year's General Assembly session. But Dave Yates, a Virginia Citizens Defense League member and a Mount Vernon computer programmer disagreed. He said the defeat of stiffer gun control measures marked a victory for handgun owners. "After everything that got thrown at us, after all the dust had settled, we lost no ground," said Yates, as he walked out of Chinese food restaurant in Chantilly on Friday night, openly carrying one of his favorite semi-automatic pistols.
Ping.
'"I've got to be careful with these guys because they've got guns," he said, sitting at a nearby table with his girlfriend'
Begin this statement...
........ is a polite society.
An armed society.....
"So everyone's concerned because no one was killed???"
It would appear that way.
Just how likely is it that a person openly carrying and who is attracting attention from everyone in sight is going to commit a crime? Isn't one of the big rules of being a criminal to avoid having your activities witnessed by others? I suppose someone could argue that anyone with a firearm could snap and start spraying bullets around but I don't see how this can be prevented by denying the right to carry openly. Every lunatic who shoots up his office or the local K-Mart about whom I have read has sneaked the gun in under a coat or in a bag or box or something. If anything the sight of people openly carrying firearms should give even lunatics reason to pause before they open fire.
I bet the idiot didn't notice that no gangbanger tried to rob the place or kill anyone.
Why didn't he just ask them to leave? If they would not leave, it would be trespassing, and then he could call the police.
Howell's bill and the proposed lifting of the concealed-weapon restaurant ban both boil down to a balance between the restaurant owner's right to a safe establishment and the gun owners' right to bear arms.
Senator Howell, and other gun grabbers, would take the decision to allow armed patrons in a restaurant away from the owner and give it to the state. Typical liberal methodology. Responsible gun owners will not go where they are not wanted. They'll take their business elsewhere. Of course some restaurateurs would not want armed customers, but would prefer the state force there competition to operate under the same restriction, so that their business would not suffer the results of their hoplophobia.
I guess he would rather NOT know that they're carrying guns?
I guess he also would rather not know that a guy is a martial arts expert before challenging him to a fight?
what is this guy smoking? a restaurant is private property. If the restaurant owner does not want people to carry firearms on the premesis, all he has to do is post the policy "no guns" - any patrons who disobey can be asked to disarm or leave; if they refuse to do either, they are guilty of criminal trespass and can be jailed and fined for that offense. I see no justification for the state to get involved in legislating this interaction of property rights and arms rights.
when government wankers start chirping the magic word "balance" I begin to see red.
whadda maroon.
My wife and I have concealed carry permits from Oklahoma. I was surprised when we took the course that concealed means CONCEALED. If you show your weapon you are no longer in compliance. In Okla I have carried openly on occasion when going to and from the range or hunting and no one said a word. I'm not sure of the legal status. I would like to be carrying openly. I really believe that an armed populace increases civility.
Without question! :-)
When I was hunting in Wyoming, I used to carry my Colt 45 Auto on my hip into restaurants many times. No one ever said a thing.
BTTT
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