Gun Enthusiasts Continue to 'Open Carry'

Connection Newspapers (VA) ^ | 3-3-05 | Brian McNeill

[Rakkasan1]

"gun owners have the right to carry their guns anywhere — including restaurants like Fuddruckers that serve alcohol."

you can do this in MN, including in a bar. (but I wouldn't suggest it. different cultural norms. and it's annoying explaining it to the police every 10 minutes)

[glock rocks]

You bring an interesting point, at least in today's society.

In my state, if you are a business open to the public, then concealed permit carriers are within the law to carry concealed on that property where the general public is allowed. Can a store owner throw you out and give you a trespass warning because he doesn't like your looks? Probably, unless you're an obvious "protected minority" class...

So... a truly private property owner in my state has such a right to forbid anything he pleases (no... no tattoos allowed), but a property owner who declares his property open to the general public does not, at least in terms of the concealed carry laws. Interesting situation, eh?

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Address or web site needed, thanks.

[King Prout]

yeah, that is kinda screwy.
one way to end-run that bit of idiocy is to charge an entry fee to the premesis (sort of a "membership fee), which makes the place a private "club"

[hophead]

My argument regarding permit holders, or open carry laws in this case is this. All the 2nd Amendment supporters and gun owners I know are responsible law abiding citizens. The LAST thing they would do is ANYTHING that would jeopardize their right to own or carry firearms. They hold that right so dear to them that exposing themselves to the myriad of laws that would disqualify them from owning or carrying is out of the question. So logically, those types are the most law abiding around. Thats why there are some states that have disqualifying laws that are so minor. Gun grabber politicians are more afraid of the informed law abiding gun owner than they are of the criminal types. Thats WHY they want to disqualify so many from legally owning firearms. Those who cannot own are less of a threat to them.

[GovernmentShrinker]

the Virginia Citizens Defense League, an organization that believes gun owners have the right to carry their guns anywhere

In his haste to paint the VCDL as some sort of lunatic fringe group, the author conveniently fails to mention that this also the official position of the government of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Restaurants and bars may post signs stating firearms are prohibited, but few establishments have done so.

And apparently also the position of the great majority of restaurant and bar owners (who are probably taking their cue from the majority of citizens, upon whom they rely for income).

[glock rocks]

I'll look into that, I don't know if even that would pass muster, if membership is open to the general public. Dunno. My church forbids carrying, and is within the law, because there is a provision for churches banning firearms if posted. OTOH, our teachers can carry concealed in the public schools.

BTW, you can carry concealed into a bar, but the threshold for possesion of a firearm while intoxicated is the same as for driving. You get caught with a beer in your hand, or have a BAC above that stated in the DUI statute (.08) while carring concealed is an offense. You'll lose your permit and have a gun related misdemeanor on yer record.

And what's worse, the local rednecks would probably tie you to a fence post and brand and flog yer useless butt for defaming gun owners for being stupid. (Son, we've found you guilty of public stupidity...)

[Eagles6]

Can't get a straight answer from the state police re: open carry in PA. Any Freepers are welcome to pass on info.
According to those same state police PA law does not restrict concealed carry with permit in establishments serving alcohol.

[hophead]

Here are the two sites to see if you want an out-of-state permit from Virginia. Read both before applying.
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/forms.htm See SP-248

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_nrcwp.htm

[Migraine]

I choose not to pack heat into otherwise friendly, family establishments, because I think it's
1) useless, under the circumstances,
2) frightening to some people,
3) a little bit too "in-your-face" for me,
4) a statement that goes something like: "look at me--chip on shoulder, gun on hip.."

But that's probably just me, as I read other comments on this thread. Weird, too; because I'm as big a gunnie as anybody on here. I just don't take them in among polite company.

[Lester Moore]

Gun grabber politicians are more afraid of the informed law abiding gun owner than they are of the criminal types..

You are so right. Much law is passed with the intent of controlling citizens and to serve government convenience.

[hophead]

"Can't get a straight answer from the state police re: open carry in PA. Any Freepers are welcome to pass on info.
According to those same state police PA law does not restrict concealed carry with permit in establishments serving alcohol."

Pa is whacked. I have an out-of-state permit from Florida. The Pa Attorney Generals website has a page that says they have reciprocal agreements with Florida so I could legally carry in Pa. To be safe, I called 4 different police stations in Pa before traveling there for vacation. I called 2 State police stations and 2 Sheriffs offices. ALL told me they do not honor Florida permits. One state policeman whom I spoke to asked, after he told me my Florida permit is no good in Pa., "Why do you feel you need to bring a handgun to our state?" I answered, "for the same reason you carry one, to protect myself from criminals." After I enlightened all those I spoke to about the AG's website and the Pa reciprocal laws they became somewhat annoyed with me. I would hate to be carrying there and been questioned by these uninformed officers of the law on my short 6 day vacation. Lord knows how long it would have taken to settle the dispute. I DID print out a copy of the AG's web page ad CARRIED IT TOO!!!

[chudogg]

Here in the People's Republic of Connecticut, the Concealed part is enforced militantly! I heard of people getting their liscenses revoked for life for somethings simple as for reaching for the top shelf at a supermarket and allowing their shirt move upward revealing thier holster (and then some anti-gun soccermom type calls the cops)

[jim_trent]

All he has to do is mind his business and he hasn't got a problem. I guess that is too much to ask of the liberal-left.

[Eagles6]

Quite a few shootings happen in friendly, family establishments. Luby's Diner for one. The McDonalds massacre in CA. I could give you,off the top of my head, a list of about 20, in recent yearsm in Pittsburgh, PA.

[Eagles6]

Quite a few shootings happen in friendly, family establishments. Luby's Diner for one. The McDonalds massacre in CA. I could give you,off the top of my head, a list of about 20, in recent yearsm in Pittsburgh, PA.

[109ACS]

I choose not to pack heat into otherwise friendly, family establishments, because I think it's
1) useless, under the circumstances,

Luby's Restaurant in Killeen, Texas is a nice safe family oriented establishment. See http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1445

[Eagles6]

Good idea. That's the problem, too few LEO know the law. Even if you're right, it could cause major hassle.

[Froggie]

Here is a great web site for information regarding weapon carrying - or as I think of it, exercising your second amendment right !! www.packing.org
By the way, in Texas you have to have a concealed, and just like another poster commented, it HAS to be concealed. Any unconcealed carrying is illegal. In regards to carrying in establishments that serve alcohol, it is legal only if the establishment does not derive the majority of their income from alcohol sales. Also, other establishments can prohibit carrying concealed on their premesis by posting a state approved sign, that is in compliance with the state law. It amazes me that businesses would want to prohibit law-abiding citizens from carrying weapons - these citizens have had background checks and passes a state course, been fingerprinted etc.
So to me, these signs tell the criminal -- come on down - the coast is clear !! You can carry at an airport -- as long as you don't try to go through security. You can carry on school grounds such as parking lots, but not in the buildings, nor at race tracks, or sporting events. I believe government buildings and courthouses are off limits!! As the instructor kept telling us regarding carrying where you aren't supposed to: " It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" -- and he was a state legislator!! Isn't it something that we have to have all these laws to allow us to exercise a right granted by the constitution??

[angkor]

In Okla I have carried openly on occasion when going to and from the range or hunting and no one said a word. I'm not sure of the legal status.

Check your legal status at http://www.packing.org.