[Alamo-Girl]

Er, if I may...

Doesn't this whole "green" problem boil down to the classic "if a tree falls in the forest and no one's around to hear it" question? In the case of the lonely tree, it certainly falls, and the air vibrates, but "sound" is a reaction in a human brain.

Sound waves are recorded in the cosmic microwave background at the moment the universe had cooled enough for photons to "decouple" from electrons, protons, and neutrons, atoms formed and light went on its way.

There was no physical organism to hear that sound yet there you have it - proof that sound exists even if noone hears it.

[MacDorcha]

I normally dont do this,but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

I think Pat's arguement was that "yes, we can hear it" but before it's percieved, is it sound? The mechanism that triggers "sound" in our brain is activated on the outside. We percieve "sound" only when we can record it.

Stop me if I got you wrong Pat.

This is a specific arguement I don't claim to have full knowledge of either, but I do like to play it out as much as I can, reardless of who I'm speaing with/for.

[betty boop]

There was no physical organism to hear that sound yet there you have it - proof that sound exists even if noone hears it.

Great observation, A-G!!!

[PatrickHenry]

Sound waves are recorded in the cosmic microwave background at the moment the universe had cooled enough for photons to "decouple" from electrons, protons, and neutrons, atoms formed and light went on its way. There was no physical organism to hear that sound yet there you have it - proof that sound exists even if noone hears it.

I don't want to side-track the discussion over this, but your post is a good one and deserves a reponse. My interpretation of what you've just described is that the vibrations existed when no one was around. Just like the case of the lonely tree falling in the forest. That's not "sound." (I think this is a meaningful distinction, and not just a freepish quibble.) Hearing is an independent event, and it's the hearing that gives us "sound." So -- stubbornly, as befits my grouchy nature -- I repeat: no listener, no sound; no viewer, no green.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Note that we "hear" it now, albeit faintly.