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Deadly Shooting Puts School on Lockdown (Pittsburgh)
KDKA ^ | 3/16/05 | KDKA

Posted on 03/16/2005 12:51:41 PM PST by HereComesTheGOP

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To: SE Mom
***There is NO good reason for AK-47's to be "on the streets". ***

Have you ever heard of the U.S. Constitution?
Try reading it. It's short and won't tax your brain.

281 posted on 03/17/2005 5:04:30 AM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: jmc813
***Do you think machine guns should be legal?***

Actually they are legal in most (many) states.

The paperwork is a b*tch and the fees suck, but they are not outlawed by the Federal Government. All you need to buy one is a Class 3 license from the ATF.

(again, this is all subject to local and state laws)

282 posted on 03/17/2005 5:11:55 AM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: HereComesTheGOP

School violence is out of hand but aside from that why print, "Police say the shooting may have involved an AK-47."? I mean that it could have been ANY type of firearm, so why single the AK-47 out? Agenda?


283 posted on 03/17/2005 5:20:41 AM PST by SeaBiscuit (God Bless all who defend America and the rest can go to hell.)
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To: Irish Rose
I don't know what to think on the issue of assault weapons,
1) Do you even know what an assault weapon is?

Some weapons have no place except in the military.
2) Says who? You?
Furthermore, do you have the slightest clue as the intent and or what purpose the 2nd Amendment serves and is really about?

(Hints - it ain't 'hunting' and it's not 'self defense' either)

284 posted on 03/17/2005 5:23:05 AM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: SE Mom
The purpose of the Second Amendment was to retake the government should it ever get out of control. Think of it as one of those checks and balances built into the Constitution.

You can't do that with 22s.
285 posted on 03/17/2005 5:23:32 AM PST by keats5
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To: HereComesTheGOP
Carrick High School

Frankly and honestly, I'm amazed this school has gone this long without something like this happening in or around it, and no, I'm not being facetious.

286 posted on 03/17/2005 5:25:56 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: KingofQue
they banned full auto weapons in the 20's or 30's.

With all due respect, that is another MSM lie. Full auto weapons are not banned by the Federal Gubmint.

All you need is a Class 3 license from the ATF. Granted the paperwork is a b*tch and the 'fees' involved suck, but if you eventually do get your Class 3 license you can have a house full of full auto weapons (and real machine guns to boot). Naturally, this is all subject to local and state laws, but in 'most' (many) states they're legal to own. And in the late 1970's we could even own them here in IL, but alas that's no longer the case.

NOTE: I haven't checked my ATF book lately on all state laws so I don't know the exact number of 'most states' off hand.

287 posted on 03/17/2005 5:37:24 AM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: SE Mom
I am FLAMING you.
Why citizens are permitted to own weapons are easily explained. Read the PREAMBLE TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

Also how about looking at history. Go check out the history of DEMOCIDE.






I handled hundreds of signals to all parts of the Soviet Union which were couched in the following form: "To N.K.V.D., Frunze. You are charged with the task of exterminating 10,000 enemies of the people. Report results by signal.--Yezhov."

And in due course the reply would come back:

"In reply to yours of such-and-such date, the following enemies of the Soviet people have been shot."

----Former Soviet Spy-Chief Vladimir Petrov


MASS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND GENOCIDES:

A LIST OF ATROCITIES
1450 CE TO WORLD WAR II

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The descriptions below, of mass crimes against humanity, are sorted by the starting date of the atrocity. 

The numbers of victims are not particularly accurate; often records are very incomplete.

Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1450 to 1792 Europe, New England, S. America Christians "Satan worshipers" & other heretics Perhaps 50,000 to 100,000

For about 300 years, during the late Middle Ages and Renaissance periods, the Christian church was directly or indirectly responsible for the arrest, torture and execution of persons believed to worship Satan or express heretical religious ideas. Most of the death sentences were passed by civil courts, not by the Catholic Church. However, the church was indirectly involved:

bullet It provided the theological foundation for the persecution of heretics in civil courts. 
bullet It created a false and unsupportable belief that large numbers of worshipers had sold their soul to Satan and were committing evil and homicidal acts.

Belief in Witches gradually dissipated during the Age of Enlightenment, as people began to question the reality of many long-held religious beliefs. Estimates on the number of victims range from 3,000 (from a Roman Catholic source) to 9,000,000 (from various Neopagan sources). 

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1492 to now Western Hemisphere European Christians Aboriginals Millions or tens of millions

"For his second voyage to the Americas, Columbus took the title Admiral of the Ocean Sea and proceeded to unleash a reign of terror unlike anything seen before or since. When he was finished, eight million Arawaks -- virtually the entire native population of Hispaniola -- had been exterminated by torture, murder, forced labor, starvation, disease and despair." 1 Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional tens of millions of Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. The exact number is unknown. Natives were murdered by warfare, forced death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, intentional and accidental spread of disease, poisoning, the promotion of suicide through the destruction of their cultural and religious heritage, etc. Even today, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide of any population group in the world. 

The genocide against American Aboriginals is one of the most massive, and longest lasting genocidal program in human history. More details

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1770 to now Australia British invaders Aboriginal people 720 thousand

The European invasion of Australia started in 1788. The population of Aboriginals in the country was approximately 750,000. By 1911, the number had been reduced to 31,000. Most were decimated by diseases introduced by the invaders, against which the Aboriginals had no defense. Some 20,000 were murdered. In those days, "The Sydney Herald claimed that blacks had 'bestowed no labour upon the land-their ownership, their right, was nothing more than that of the Emu or the Kangaroo.' Courts rejected Aboriginal evidence, because non-Christians could not swear oaths, and white killers used 'the defense that Aboriginal morality did not exist'. The extermination of Aboriginals in Tasmania was particularly brutal; many white settlers would shoot them on sight. In 1830, the remaining 300 Aboriginals were ethnically cleansed from Tasmania. They were captured and transferred to Flinders Island. They signed a treaty which guaranteed their later return. It was never honored. By 1843, only 50 remained alive.

The atrocities continued into the 20th century. Between 1910 and 1970, "between one in three and one in ten indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families." They were placed with white families in order to absorb "these people into the general population." Aboriginals were finally granted citizenship in 1967. They still await an apology from the Government of Australia.

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1904 to 1907 Namibia, formerly German South-West Africa German government, (Christian) Hereros, Animists 35,000 to 105,000
This was the first genocide of the 20th century. Some Hereros have suggested that the Nazi Holocaust was patterned after this genocide some three and a half decades later.

Germany ruled Namibia from 1880 to 1915. In 1904, Herero warriors were angered at the German settlers who had enslaved their people, lynched their men, and stolen their land, cattle and women. On JAN-12, they massacred about 200 German civilians. Although the uprising ended on 1904-AUG-11, the German army continued to exterminate the Hereros until 1907, resulting in the deaths of perhaps 65,000 persons. As is usual in these mass slaughters, the number of victims is unknown. The Herero population alive at the time range from 50,000 to 120,000. About 15, 000 survived.

On 2004-JAN-12, the 100th anniversary of the Hereros uprising, Wolfgang Massing, Germany's ambassador to Namibia, expressed his regrets. He said that while history could not be undone, "we can give back to the victims and their descendants the dignity and honor of which they were robbed...I also wish to express how deeply we regret this unfortunate past."

Later in 2004, German Development Aid Minister Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul finally gave the Hereros what they have been asking repeatedly: her country's apology. She said: ""We Germans accept our historical and moral responsibility and the guilt incurred by Germans at that time....The atrocities committed at that time would have been termed genocide." She promised continuing economic assistance, but ruled out financial compensation for the descendents of the victims.

Namibia-travel.net describes Herero present-day spirituality: "The ancestral cult still plays an important role in the lives of many Herero people. In the evenings, they often sit in front of the 'Okuruo'; the holy fire, which may never be allowed to burn out. The chief establishes contact with the ancestors and in a loud self-talk, asks for advice and help or confesses mistakes and sins. 18,19,20

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1915 to 1916 Turkey Muslim government Armenian Christians 1.5 million
"The [Christian] Armenian genocide of 1915-1916 effectively wiped out the Armenian population of Turkey, claiming some 1.5 million victims. Perhaps 75,000 Armenians endure in Turkey today, most of them in Istanbul."

"The Armenian Genocide occurred in a systematic fashion, which proves that it was directed by the Turkish government" -- the "Young Turk" government of the Ottoman Empire. "First the Armenians in the army were disarmed, placed into labor battalions, and then killed. Then the Armenian political and intellectual leaders were rounded up on [1915-]April 24 and killed. Finally, the remaining Armenians were rounded up, told they would be relocated, and then marched off to concentration camps in the desert between Jerablus and Deir ez-Zor where they would starve and thirst to death in the burning sun...The authorities in Trebizond, on the Black Sea coast, did vary this routine: they loaded Armenians on barges and sank them far out at sea." 3 Current and past governments of Turkey have denied that the genocide actually happened. On 2001-JAN-18, France passed a law branding as genocide the mass murder of Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Turks.

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1917 to 1987 USSR Communist government Public About 41 million

This was mass murder with a difference: it lasted over a period of 70 years. The Communist government systematically exterminated millions of its citizens. Most died from being worked to death in the camps of the gulag. The government  employed additional methods such as: terrorizing the public by random executions, purges, show trials, and artificially induced famines. An additional 21 million died during the civil war and during World War II. Estimates of the total dead range from about 28 to 125 million. 4

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1937 Nanking, China Japanese army Chinese public 320 thousand

This is a relatively little known massacre -- perhaps because memories of it were overlaid a few years later by stories of World War II atrocities. There were many incidents of mass crimes against humanity during the 1930's perpetrated by the Japanese army. Of these, perhaps the most serious was the "Nanking Massacre." On 1937-DEC-9, the Japanese invading army launched a massive attack on the city of Nanking -- then the capital of China. Three days later, the Chinese defense forces retreated across the Yangtze River. Then began "an orgy of looting and mass execution." 300,000 to 340,000 civilians died; 20,000 to 80,000 women were raped. "The war left a legacy of distrust, which even today, tarnishes relations between Japan and the other countries of East Asia." The Japanese government has maintained that the death toll is greatly exaggerated; some politicians have even claimed that it never happened. Fortunately, many army personnel took snapshots of their victims during the atrocity. 5,6

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1940 to 1945 Poland, mainly German army volunteers Jews, Roma, etc. 11 million

This has been called the Shoah in Hebrew or the Holocaust in English. Some 11 million people were first declared sub-human and then murdered. Some were killed when the towns and cities in which they lived were captured by German troops. Others were rounded up, and transported to extermination camps, mainly in Poland where the gas ovens waited.

bullet Jews: About 6 million were killed, mostly in death camps. Hitler's goal was to completely clear all Europe of Jews.
bullet Poles: About 3 million were killed. This represented about 10% of the population, and one third of the Catholic priests in the country. 7,8  
bullet Roma: (These are commonly called by the derogatory term, Gypsies). At first, the Nazis thought that they could be "re-educated."  About 1940, the Nazis decided to exterminate them. Approximately 400,000 Roma were killed. Roma survivors refer to this tragedy as "the devouring."
bullet Homosexuals: Estimates of the number executed or worked to death range from 50,000 to half a million. 9.10,11
bullet Jehovah's Witnesses: About 10,000 Witnesses were imprisoned in concentration camps during the Nazi period, mainly because they were conscientious objectors. An estimated 2,500 to 5,000 died. 12
bullet Disabled persons: About 150,000 Germans who were crippled or mentally ill were murdered. They were considered "life not worthy of life."
bullet Others: This included millions of Slavs, Russians, socialists, and various types of dissenters.

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Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1941 to 1945 Croatia Ustaša (Roman-Catholic/Fascist regime) Jews, Roma, Serbian Orthodox Christians, anti-fascist Croats. Unknown; estimates range up to one million 13

These atrocities were perpetrated by the Ustaša regime, the Independent State of Croatia, which was established in power by the Nazi government of Germany during World War II.  They fiercely hated Serbs, Jews, Communists and all other non-Catholics. Their goals were to convert Croatia into a pure Croatian and Roman Catholic independent state. On 1941-JUL-22, Dr. Mile Budak, the Ustaša Minister of Education and Cults, said: "The movement of the Ustashi is based on religion. For minorities-Serbs, Jews and Gypsies, we have three million bullets. We shall kill one part of the Serbs. We shall transport another, and the rest of them will be forced to embrace the Roman Catholic religion. Thus, our new Croatia will get rid of all Serbs in our midst in order to become one hundred percent Catholic within ten years." 13

During 1941 to 1943, the regime slaughtered at least 250,000 Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia, and more than 20,000 Jews. Most were systematically exterminated at the Jasenovac concentration camp, and similar facilities. "Ustaša units, often encouraged by Catholic clergy, carried out a program of compulsory conversion of Orthodox Serbs to Catholicism; resistance often resulted in murder. Some Serbs, particularly members of the elite, were not even offered the option of conversion to avoid being killed." 14 "Conditions in the Jasenovac camps were horrendous. Prisoners received minimal food. Shelter and sanitary facilities were totally inadequate. Worse still, the Ustasa guards cruelly tortured, terrorized, and murdered prisoners at will." 15 After mid-1942, a further 7,000 Jews were dispatched to Auschwitz-Birkenau in Poland for slaughter. "The Ustasa government was dissolved in May 1945. After the war, most of the Ustasa leaders escaped to South America or Spain." 16

"Since the end of World War II, political and ideological conflicts in the area have made the documentation and verification of victim statistics extremely difficult. To cover the trail of terror and murder, authorities of the Independent State of Croatia burned official records from the Jasenovac camps first in early 1943 and again upon evacuation in 1945." 17

On 1945-MAY-12, 600 inmates attempted to break out of the camp; only 70 succeeded. Former inmates meet on the site of the concentration camp annually on the anniversary of the event. In 2003, for the first time, a Croatian head of state joined in the remembrance. President Stipe Mesic expressed his "deepest regret for the innocent victims of those who tarnished Croatia's name." 17

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Recent information:

bullet Harper's Magazine maintains a list of "Events related to Genocide" from 2000-AUG to the present time. See: http://www.harpers.org/

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References:

  1. "#671 - Columbus Day, 1999," at: http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=1591 
  2. "Genocide history brief," at:  http://www.maxpages.com/genocide/Genocide_History 
  3. "The Armenian Genocide," at: http://www.hr-action.org/armenia/
  4. "20th Century Democide," at: http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/20th.htm 
  5. "Nanking, 1937," at: http://www.princeton.edu/~nanking/html/main.html
  6. "Nanjing Massacre: 300,000 Chinese people killed; 20,000 women raped," at: http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/index.html Includes descriptions of biological warfare, treatment of POWs, and other atrocities.
  7. Y.F. Edeiken, "Non-Jewish survivors and victims," The Holocaust History Project, at: http://www.holocaust-history.org/questions/ 
  8. Richard C. Lucas, "Forgotten Holocaust: How could 5,000,000 be killed and forgotten?," at: http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/ 
  9. "Excerpts from Vera Laska," at: http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/laska.html 
  10. Eugen Kogon, "The Theory and Practice of Hell," Ferrar, Straus, New York, (1950), Page 38. 
  11. Frank Rector, "The Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals," Stein and Day, New York, (1981), Page 116.
  12. "Jehovah's Witnesses and Nazi Germany Index," at: http://jehovah.to/general/nazi/
  13. "The embodied devils: Who was who in NDH?," Balkan Repository Project, at: http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/"
  14. Jasenovac," Jewish Virtual Library, at: http://www.us-israel.org/
  15. "Jasenovac," Holocaust Learning Center, at: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/
  16. "Croatian President Mesic Apologizes for Croatian Crimes Against the Jews during the Holocaust," Yad Vashem, at: http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/about_yad/
  17. Peter Popham, "Croatians gather to mourn victims of 1945 atrocities," Independent.co.uk, 2003-MAY-12, at: http://news.independent.co.uk/
  18. "Regret for slaughter of Hereros," Daily Dispatch, 2004-JAN-12, at: http://www.dispatch.co.za/
  19. "Namibia: Germany apologizes for colonial genocide," The Toronto Star, 2005-AUG-15, Page A8.
  20. "Okakarara Namibia," Namibia-travel.net, at: http://www.namibia-travel.net/

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Site navigation: Home page > Laws & religionGenocide > here

or: Home page > Hatred & intolerance Genocide >  here

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Copyright © 2001 to 2004 incl., by Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance


288 posted on 03/17/2005 5:59:30 AM PST by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: Willie Green

Scenic Route 910...


289 posted on 03/17/2005 6:27:18 AM PST by RayBob
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To: weegee

That's true too, and they will find loopholes. For all those calling me an ultra-liberal on that, I am saying that IN A PERFECT WORLD, gun control would be great. Unfortunately, the criminals don't listen, so it wouldn't work. Gun control does not work.


290 posted on 03/17/2005 6:46:21 AM PST by Heartofsong83
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To: Heartofsong83
If we already had a 'perfect world' then why would we want to eliminate all shooting sports and hunting? What kind of world would have gun control 'work'? Only some magic utopia because you would have to eliminate all forms of human evil. That is impossible short of mind control rays or some such. And in a world where the government has mind control rays I will certainly want 'assault rifles'.
291 posted on 03/17/2005 7:53:03 AM PST by TalonDJ
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To: SE Mom

I own a legal semiautomatic AK47.
I have never shot anyone with it, nor threatened to do so, nor committed any crime of any sort with it.
Please explain to me, in the greatest detail you can muster, exactly why I should be barred from having it.


292 posted on 03/17/2005 7:54:46 AM PST by King Prout (Remember John Adam!)
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To: green iguana

“there is no right to a bazooka or rocket launcher
You'll find plenty here who disagree.”

They would be wrong. The truth of an idea is not measured by its popularity.


293 posted on 03/17/2005 8:02:54 AM PST by Jim Verdolini
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To: SE Mom

ah.
good.
interrogation rescinded.


294 posted on 03/17/2005 8:05:52 AM PST by King Prout (Remember John Adam!)
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To: Jim Verdolini

hrmn?

what, then, is your explanation for USCon:Art1:Sec8:11?


295 posted on 03/17/2005 8:08:42 AM PST by King Prout (Remember John Adam!)
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To: SE Mom

Let's start by getting them out of the hands of bodyguards, cops, Federal agencies, and the military, then we'll discuss removing them from the hands of citizens...

Mike


296 posted on 03/17/2005 8:21:16 AM PST by BCR #226
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To: King Prout

“hrmn?

what, then, is your explanation for USCon:Art1:Sec8:11?”
You mean: “Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; “
I would say it has no application at all. There is no record of any founder discussing the individual ownership or possession of any arms beyond small arms. None. There is a vast amount of record of discussion about specific small arms and Congress passed a specific act in 1793 that defined exactly what arms the militia was expected to have and to show up with if mustered. All small arms. No cannon. Unless you can produce an actual discussion, congressional or state law or court opinion that ties the use of privateers under letter of marque with the bearing of arms as a part of the militia, I would have so say the two issues are completely separate.


297 posted on 03/17/2005 8:25:24 AM PST by Jim Verdolini
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To: Diddle E. Squat

Actually, you and she are incorrect. We have the right to bear the same arms that are in use by the military no matter what time period it is. This is the intent of the Second Amendment. This was also defined in US vs. Miller circa 1939 USSC.

And yes, we do have the right to a bazooka and rocket launchers. The line should be drawn at the point of indeterminate area effect weapons. What these consist of are weapons that once fired and detonated, we no longer have control over their destructive purpose due to fallout or residual effects. This includes chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, and biological weapons.

The reason I bring this up is that we not only have the right to own these weapons but the duty and responsibility to do so for defense of our nation. Remember that the mainland US was not attacked in WW2 by the Japanese specifically because they knew that the citizens are armed.

My personal feeling on the issue is that anyone that promotes bans of any kind is subverting the US Constitution, is a traitor, and should be either jailed or deported immediately and permanently.

Mike


298 posted on 03/17/2005 8:31:06 AM PST by BCR #226
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To: Jim Verdolini

I would say that the issuance of a congressional hunting permit to private captains logically implies that private possession of cannon is licit according to the constitution.


299 posted on 03/17/2005 8:31:11 AM PST by King Prout (Remember John Adam!)
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To: Condor51

It's 39 NFA friendly states currently.

Mike


300 posted on 03/17/2005 8:34:24 AM PST by BCR #226
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