Posted on 03/16/2005 8:34:58 PM PST by Lokibob
"You really are a gung-ho Chinese communist propagandist.
I like your honesty and straightforwardness.
As far as Taiwan. If it were part of China we wouldn't be having this discussion."
Is that all you can call me? BTW< I live in the US, and am a US citizen :) But unlike you, i don't wish for war. I am pointing out the easy facts for everyone to look for -- war = a ton of deaths. And perhaps i have more perspective on this, than you can ever dream about. I actually do care for Taiwan people and i know they'll suffer HUGELY if it declares independence, so will people in China, as well as US troops if it ends up invading China.
If Taiwan isn't part of China, why does no one recognizes Taiwan as an independent country? Taiwan's official name is REPUBLIC of CHINA. It is NOT part of Communist China but i'ts STILL part of "China".
Here's something tallhappy might be intereseted in -- Last year when questioned by the Chinese premier on Taiwan making threats attacking China, GW Bush responded by saying that "Taiwan attacking China is like a misquito attacking an elephant".
Here's a source of that from Taipei, ROC:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2004/12/11/2003214610
It does seems to suggest that Bush may not actually end up defending Taiwan with military force -- the Taiwan Relations Act leaves a LOT of room in this regard (it only has to SUPPORT Taiwan, but support doesn't mean military support, it could just be military assistance in terms of selling weapons).
This is a far cry from when Bush was a baby in 2001 and said "I will defend Taiwan, whatever it takes", which causes Chen Shui Bian to go towards this independence move. Now Bush regrets it, and pressured Taiwan during the 2003 meeting with Wen Jia Bao.
China will never get a good running government of any kind until they first get the corruption out of government. As long as government is tied at the hip with industry corrption will be massive.
” The Korean war proves how devastating it would be for American troops if it were to go into the mainland.. “
I am lost with this statement? Because our leaders flat out ignored and fired our generals on the ground in Korea which told the president we must TAKE China, some how that is ‘devastating for our troops? I don’t understand what you mean? Why do you suggest the only way the US can win is through nuclear war? China today wound win if it went nuclear, China is the only country in the world that could lose 2/3 of its population and do BETTER afterwards.
pganini said: “Just look at their prime minster repeated trips to worship the dead war criminals :) Do i have to say more?”
Yes you do. That is irrelevant, showing of respect for those that fought in a war isn’t something to demonize.
” they did an interview with the tank crew -- the captain just felt sorry for the student and didn't run him over. And if you ask most Chinese, they'll tell you the student is an idiot :-) It's funny how different perceptions are there from different countries.”
That is interesting, I was informed the tank commander and driver were executed the gunner got 20 years. I need to look that up.
pganini said: “Just look at their prime minster repeated trips to worship the dead war criminals :) Do i have to say more?”
Yes you do. That is irrelevant, showing of respect for those that fought in a war isn’t something to demonize.
” they did an interview with the tank crew -- the captain just felt sorry for the student and didn't run him over. And if you ask most Chinese, they'll tell you the student is an idiot :-) It's funny how different perceptions are there from different countries.”
That is interesting, I was informed the tank commander and driver were executed the gunner got 20 years. I need to look that up.
I do hope you are joking? You cann't be for real?
Because when Chiang Kai Shek took Taiwan he was upset that China got a veto vote in the UN and refused to join the UN on that notion. He believed he was the rightful ruler of China. From then on China didn’t alow Taiwan into the UN with the use of their Veto power.
”Taiwan's official name is REPUBLIC of CHINA.”
You seem to only read what is coming out of China don’t you? Show me where it says Taiwan’s official name? Tell me what it says would you please?
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tw.html
Excuse me but why am I teaching you stuff that is so basic when you state I know nothing?
"That is interesting, I was informed the tank commander and driver were executed the gunner got 20 years. I need to look that up."
Nope. That's simply not true. Again, lots of misinformation everywhere.
The only thing I can say about the Tiananmen stuff is that there were suspicion that hte initial wave into the sqaure, the PLA drugged the soldiers to attack the students by force. That's teh only "rumor" that may be substantiated. Again, they ordered the Beijing military/police to crack down on the students and THEY refused. Those guys got their rank stripped and was under house arrest for many years, THAT is true. But what you said about the tank guy simply is not the truth.
My take on this is that within the next 1-2 years, the CCP will recognize that the crackdown in 1989 was their fault, that they should have used non-lethal force to disperse the crowd - as not even in a democratic country would it allow protests that last more than a few weeks, and Tianamen was there for over 3 months.
http://www.gio.gov.tw/
See that? It says, REPUBLIC OF CHINA :^)
Duh. Taiwan's official name IS REPUBLIC OF CHINA. One issue that will lead up to indepdence if it changes it to TAIWAN, then it's basically declaring independence.
Cia Factbook, that's a contradictory in terms :)
I think i know what's going on here --
people on this forum has never visited China or know what's taking place.
They look at these propaganda stuff and believes in it. It's like that execution photos of so called "Tibetans" that was floating around in this forum. I saw it -- and no one points out the obvious facts -- the Chinese that was written on her shirt says:
"INTENTIONAL MURDER" (basically convicted of Capital Murder in the US, same type of sentence)
For some reason, someone said it was "Sedition" :) If you advocate secession or overthrow of government in China, you will be arrested and jailed - but no one has ever been executed for SAYING things like that. They only get executed if they use violence (i.e. the violent Tibetan uprising in 1959 in which they killed 2000 PLA soldiers, which resulted in Mao bringing in the entire force)
And her name is CHINESE, HAN CHINESE, not Tibetan. The photo is probably a criminal execution proceeding, not on Tibetan uprising related issues. It's pretty sad when people on this forum would believe anything someone posted and take it as real fact.
Propaganda is everywhere.
Alternatively, they could simply stop shipping us clothing and shoes.
Oh yes I remember now, when Chiang Kai Shek took Taiwan he fully expected to retake China.
About the Women that where executed in china. The UN seems to back those claims:
http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord2001/documentation/commission/e-cn4-2001-73-add1.htm
If you truely want to avoid a war and sap the Chinese communist government, simply open the US to unrestricted immigration from China. That's right, anyone who can afford a plane ticket can vote with their feet and move.
If you have confidence that our system and way of life is so much better, then the best of China will move here and leave them with culls.
I'm not joking. At the rate that things are going here my kids will be speaking Spangalish anyway, so why not Chinese or Hindi or Vietnamese? Tacos or shrimp fried rice, all the same to me.
"About the Women that where executed in china. The UN seems to back those claims:
http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord2001/documentation/commission/e-cn4-2001-73-add1.htm"
Um, i don't see any mentioning of "execution" in any of the people under the "China" column -- can you point it out specifically? Again, there are execution mentioned (search for execution in the link you posted), but none are in the Chinese section. China do execute a lot of people, and currently about 1/2 of them each year seems to be corrupt Communist officials and business people that accept bribes, but I have never heard of an execution of a dissident in China -- they do hand out heavy sentences, but the outright execution for dissidents are only if they have committed violent acts (so most of them are in the Xinjiang province where it's largely Islamic population and when they stage protests it's often times very violent).
If I remember right reading back on your post. I do remember a lady being executed for taking or giving payment for some service or item rendered (I don't remember what kind of business she was in.)
I can just see it now.. plane loads of Chinese men looking for a women. And plane loads of Falun Gong and other religious people looking for a place to freely practice their religion, only to meet the ACLU.
"That was dealing with the cases of the evil Falun Gong movement that must be terrifying the communist government.
If I remember right reading back on your post. I do remember a lady being executed for taking or giving payment for some service or item rendered (I don't remember what kind of business she was in.)"
That's because China do have strong laws against corruption now and has been enforcing it very strictly. If you're caught taking bribes, especially if you're an official, then it's a death sentence for sure. And even with the law, people still do it.
Falun Gong is a religion as much as David Koresh is Jesus Christ :) (and we all know what happened to that guy in Waco) Falun Gong's founder who resides in NYC claim he can FLY :^)
Are you saying it was ok for our government to kill Koresh?
You may have been to China but I am positive you do not know how their system works. The pay rate for services is way under valued the system works totally off of 'corruption' or kick backs.
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