Humvee Crashes Perplex Army

The Army is baffled by a recent spate of vehicle accidents in Iraq - many of them rollovers involving armored Humvees - that have claimed more than a dozen lives this year.

One key concern: Soldiers lack the skills to handle the heavier Humvees and are losing control as they speed through ambush areas before insurgents detonate roadside bombs.

"An individual feels that if he goes faster he can avoid that threat," says Lt. Col. Michael Tarutani, an Army official tracking the accidents. "But now he's exceeded, first, maybe his capabilities, and then maybe the speed for those conditions."

In the past four full months, the numbers of serious vehicle accidents and fatalities in Iraq have more than doubled from the previous four months, records provided by the Army show. In the first 10 weeks of this year, 14 soldiers were killed in accidents involving Humvees or trucks. All but one died in rollovers. If that rate continues, the number of soldiers killed in such accidents this year would be almost double the 39 soldiers killed in 2004. Detailed records involving Marines were not available.

The Army is trying to determine whether the dramatic increase in the number of Humvees in use in Iraq - or an increase in the amount of miles they are being driven - might explain the higher number of accidents. It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

Military vehicles are meant to traverse rough terrain, not corner like a Porsche racing car or NASCAR stocker or Indy car on a smooth banked racing track.

They are not driving on a 6-lane concrete thruway either.

The suspensions are designed for maximum wheel travel and the chassis and body must be high enough to clear obstacles.

Stiffer spring rates and massive roll control bars do not work on rough surfaces -

Armored Humvees are being manufactured with beefed up suspensions now and retro-fit kits are being installed on many in service but they can never have the speed and handling of unarmored Humvees.

Recall the massive Super-Tigers Hitler had built near the end of WWII.

It big, to heavy, too slow - it was a flop in the field.

My old Jeep has zero armor when I was on active duty in the US Army yet I knew well if I took a red clay or sand road at higher (in a Jeep? LOL!)
speeds that the narrow track (center of tires width between wheels) and height and stiff suspension was going to get me on my head if I did not drive with skill and caution.

Same on the streets with my sports cars - I actually really learned to drive my Triumph fast on curves on the red clay back roads at Fort Benning, Georgia -

That is why you see so many top Indy and NASCAR drivers that were once dirt-track race drivers - AJ Foyt, Parnelli Jones, on up to todays drivers.

Using your brain and slowly learning how to "toss" a vehicle in a "drift" (really a "controlled" 4-wheel "slide"!) on dirt or clay can teach you how to apply those lessons on hardtop roads and stay safe and alive.

This is something that takes time and talent and instinct.

The US military cannot reteach every soldier how to drive overweight modified Humvees like a Corvette or an Indy Car.

I never have seen comparisons of our US troops killed in rollovers in combat areas to civilians killed in modern street vehicles that are lower, lighter, handle much better than older street cars.

My suspicions are that the %/100,000 drivers killed in civilian accidents far exceeds out %/100,000 of military accidents in combat zones.

What are the numbers of deaths per 10,000 vehicles :

USA on the hardtop roads :

US troops in combat rough terrain :

I could be wrong.

I doubt that I am wrong.

A Humvee is not a tank

A Humvee is not a sports car

That's when the M-38A1 Jeep was replaced by the M-151 which was a totally different vehicle. The M-151 had unit-body construction and, as you noted, had independent rear suspension that allowed the rear wheels to tuck under during heavy braking and when turning. It was particulary tricky when you got into a turn at excessive speed and tried to brake in the turn. I was fortunate to have covered several thousand miles in an M-151 without incident - it was a great little vehicle.

Just exactly it. Nice driving!

Yep those were the jeeps of the Nam era, built by ford i believe, the back wheels were ind pendant suspension and looked pigeon toed, and they would tuck under with the slightest provocation, These jeeps were worse handling than the solid axle ones that they replaced.

I knew that somebody here would actually be familiar with the modification. That makes two of you guys so far. Check Ben Hecks' post. He actually drove the darn things well enough to be here to tell the tale.

What a body of knowledge we have here!

"Me too, but you had to drive the thing like you knew it was out to kill you."

As you probably remember, the M-151 speedometer read from 0 to 60 in an arc approximating 240 degrees; at the bottom of the gauge, it said "miles per hour". My Jeep in 'Nam would do "per" which was about 15 mph past the 60 mark. I'll have to admit that I pushed it a few times driving between Long Binh and Saigon but that was a nice smooth highway with only a few gentle curves. But that was a long time ago when I was young........

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