Schiavo 's parents sought, were denied own expert to observed autopsy

Tampa Bay's 10 ^ | April 2, 2005 | AP

[infidel29]

Absolutely! Just like Roe v. Wade only made what happens between a doctor and a patient private, it didn't legalize abortion. It was a "don't ask don't tell" ruling, (don't ask the doctor what he did, and he won't have to tell anyone) but has been hijacked by feminists and the pro-death party.

Now Roe v. Wade is the precedent by which all abrotion cases are supported.

[eddie willers]

I suggest we wait and see

As Bart Simpson said, "Sorry, mom, the mob has spoken".

[SoCar]

Excellent post! Thanks

[Cicero]

Actually the Euthanasia movement has been working for years to universalize what so far is only legal in Oregon: openly killing people in hospitals.

Holland shows how far this can go. First you kill those who ask to be "assisted" to commit suicide. Then you kill those whose family want them dead. Then you kill those who are too expensive to keep alive. Then you kill those who are inconvenient and, in at least one documented case, kept a doctor from going on vacation. Then you kill children with minor handicaps.

Our medicare system is broken and bleeding dollars. Who is to say that there won't be a massive killing of older people who cost too much money to keep in good health? It's already happening in Holland. And let's not forget the deaths of 40 million innocent, unborn babies--many of them still alive after their abortions, but starved or thrown into the garbage rather than rescued.

When medical personnel get into the habit of killing people it becomes extremely dangerous for anyone who falls under their care.

[beyond the sea]

And that's another reason why Florida is not Nazi Germany.

Your entire dissertation was splendidly written. Really. But you still misstate the message that is (I think) trying to be communicated by those pictures of Germany. And, you writing at the end, " And that's another reason why Florida is not Nazi Germany," exemplifies that you don't understand.

No one on this thread is suggesting that Florida is Nazi Germany, as you suggest. No one is comparing America to Nazi Germany.

The pictures, even though I did not post them, are just meant as an alarm bell, imo. And by the way, there hasn't been just one snowflake, as you have innocently suggested more than once.

But you write so very well. I await replies to your well constructed and thoughtful post from the others who have considered the appropriateness of the inclusion of those pictures on this thread.

***

[ladyjane]

What happened to Terri happened due to a loophole in the law.

You think it was a 'loophole' in the law? No. That law was intentionally changed after a lot of lobbying by special interests. Money is at stake here. It was no accident or mis-wording of the law.

[cajungirl]

NO.

And I am not arguing with you anymore about it.

[bvw]

A loophole? No. It was intentional law. Still would be illegal, even when process fully followed. Because no lawful process not matter how correctly followed can produce a lawful warrant for murder of an innocent. Process is not King.

[bvw]

Of course! In a science fiction TV show, your head would now be spinning and smoke pouring out of your ears and all your rivets would be popping and video screens and disply lights exploding. You lost your own argument to yourself upon a logical contradiction.

[cajungirl]

Are you always such a rude presumptious person or just today?

[bvw]

Ma'am -- I am alive! Not yet is there any Judicial Warrant to murder me sworn out. Nor G-d forbid, should there ever be.

How are you NOT today my mortal enemy?

[supercat]

That being said, I still think that a crime was committed, that crime being Murder (although, if MS or whoever were finally charged, it probably would be knocked down to manslaughter). and in a perfect world, a whole bunch of people would be charged as accessories after the fact.

I don't really see how a manslaughter charge would fit (beyond the fact that unless there are special rules for incapacitated victim who never recover the statute of limitations would have expired for a 1990 battery resulting in eventual death). If Michael did batter Terri in 1990, that would imply very strongly that he committed numerous frauds upon the court(*) for the purpose of having her put to death. I would tend to expect that the felony murder rule should apply if one commits a fraud upon the court with the knowledge and intention that such fraud will result in the death of an innocent person.

(*) Likely with Judge Greer's knowledge and consent

My personal belief is that if the state got a really good prosecuting attorney, it should be possible to nail Michael with a conviction for First Degree Murder; there are a few routes to such a verdict, and even if not all of them were proven I don't think a jury would begrudge the ones that weren't unless the prosecutor messed up badly. One of the keys to a successful prosecution, IMHO, would be to establish a sufficient prima facie case that Michael was forced to testify on his own behalf. Given that Felos would not be able to answer questions for Michael (as he has done on TV interviews) I would think a good prosecutor should be able to trip up Michael on many key points, including:

1. What really happened the night of Terri's "collapse", and why he has told so many different and inconsistent stories.
2. When he knew about Terri's wishes, why other people seem to think he had clearly indicated that he didn't, and indeed why his own testimony never suggested any such thing until he received the "malpractice" award.
3. Whether his actions as guardian after 1993 were motivated by claimed love for his wife, given that by that time he had already deliberately destroyed her wedding rings, an act which--unless done for the purpose of making replacement rings--is universally recognized as an act of divorce.
4. Whether his actions as guardian after 1997 were motivated by claimed love for his wife, given that by that time he had pledged to marry another woman, another act universally recognized as being an act of divorce.
5. Whether he had sought to provide Terri with the legally-required care and therapy from 1993-2005, and whether any felonious failure to do so contributed to Terri's "PVS" diagnosis.
6. Whether he could have reasonably believed Terri to have really been PVS, or whether he knew that she wasn't and tried to conceal this fact.

I would say that there is an extremely strong prima facie case that Michael Schiavo performed numerous felonious actions which contributed in foreseeable fashion to the death of Theresa Marie Schindler (Schiavo). Although I would fear that an inept or crooked prosecutor could easily botch the case, I see no reason to settle for anything less than capital murder.

[supercat]

1) NO physician signed this Certificate for Woodside Hospice House.

What evidence is there that this certificate is the actual document that was used to justify admitting Terri to the hospice? Not that I doubt your integrity, but as the Rathergate fiasco demonstrates, it's important to have some knowledge of the provenance of any electronic "document".

[ReeWalker]

Your wasting your time...they don't want to hear facts...just spit out the party line and they'll love you....

[IAMNO1]

"Your entire dissertation was splendidly written. Really. But you still misstate the message that is (I think) trying to be communicated by those pictures of Germany. And, you writing at the end, " And that's another reason why Florida is not Nazi Germany," exemplifies that you don't understand.

No one on this thread is suggesting that Florida is Nazi Germany, as you suggest. No one is comparing America to Nazi Germany.

The pictures, even though I did not post them, are just meant as an alarm bell, imo. And by the way, there hasn't been just one snowflake, as you have innocently suggested more than once."

I wholeheartedly agree with the your reply to caspara's comments.

In addition, I think the Godwin's Law thing is outrageous. Take a fire in a theater, for instance. Even if small, it certainly is a fire, and if left unrecognized or unattended, it will spread and kill many people. Do we casually wait until it reaches certain proportions to yell "fire"? The use of comparisons and analogies to Nazi Germany is quite appropriate in pointing out where we as a people do not want to end up. And it is not just the Nazi's that we can point to. History is replete with scoundrels who killed without mercy or regard for human life. Take Stalin, for example.

[supercat]

It took 15 years of legal wrangling to kill Terri, with, believe it or not, serious consideration and review given to the arguments on both sides. The Nazis would have dispatched her in 15 seconds along with 4000 other people who looked vaguely like her and would have dumped them all in

Many peopple have gone through a whole lot of trouble to kill Terri. It would make no sense for them to have gone through all that trouble unless they are hoping to pave the way for future victims. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you must, but please tell me why else so many people would go through so much trouble otherwise.

Also, you should recognize that Terri is hardly the first person to be murdered by dehydration when they were not otherwise dying. Indeed, the facts surrounding some of the other cases would be even more shocking and horrific save for one thing: in those cases, the murders succeeded because almost nobody knew about them. In this case, the murder succeeded in broad daylight (well, figuratively speaking anyway--Terri hadn't seen real daylight for years).

I take zero comfort in the fact that it took fifteen years to murder Terri, given that most victims won't have parents who fight as hard as the Schindlers. For most victims, murder will probably take well under a year.

[beyond the sea]

Well said!

[beyond the sea]

Just taking up space and trying to be profound

I see your profoundly crude post is no longer "taking up space". LOL.