"PATRIOT Act Oversight Hearing Tuesday" - Bob Barr, true American patriots, OPPOSE renewal!

http://judiciary.house.gov/ ^ | May 2, 2005 | MagnusMaximus1

[Darkwolf]

Yeah, as far as I know, those records were ALWAYS available by court order. As far as I know--I think I've looked into this more than the average person, but by no means as thoroughly as some--the vast majority of stuff in the Patriot Act is merely assembling laws already out there into a framework of tools to be used to ferret out terrorists AND, more significantly, to update laws about phones and landlines for the cellular age. It's one of those oogah boogah scares that Bob Barr seems to need to make noise about since his career as a politician collapsed. He's one of those advertisements for term limits, as far as I'm concerned.

[agitator]

Unfortunately, the financial provisions that were on the police state wish list since day one and opportunistically trotted out on 9/12 don't expire. Only a repeal of the permanent provisions will get rid of them. Don't hold your breath.

[risk]

I'm not holding my breath, but I do think it's worth expressing my opinions in public -- and I appreciate your willingness to do the same thing. I want to go on record as saying that I think the PA is well-intentioned but will establish too much state power. We need to control immigration, reestablish our second amendment protections, cut (altogether) any funding to universities that teach anti-Americanism and Marxism, defund our Islamic "allies," and eliminate trade with China. These things would go much further in protecting American security than spying on the American people themselves.

[agitator]

I agree.

[Badray]

more civil rights violations against average americans take place at traffic stops every day then under prosecution with the patriot act.

So that makes it okay?

[risk]

The best patriot acts we can muster would protect our family values and reignite the desire to raise families we had in the 1950s.

[carenot]

It is on C-Span2, right now.

[Squantos]

The patriot act in it's current form is just an........act.

[jmc813]

Bob Barr works for the ACLU. Who the hell cares what he thinks?

Apparently the management of Free Republic does as they advertise his writings on the top right margin of the forum.

[VRing]

"Under the Patriot Act, a search of persons or premises still requires a warrant issued by a judge."

Secret warrants, issued by secret judges, concerning secret material, served by secret LEOs, and if the subject of the warrant finds out, somehow, that they were served and doesn't keep it secret, automatic prison. That's the problem I have with the Unpatriot Act.

[Deb]

Garbage. Anyone who has problems with the Act should have to post the actual woodage they fear. That goes for you.

[VRing]

Woodage?

[Radioactive]

Bob Barr works for the ACLU. Who the hell cares what he thinks?

Since When?

[sinkspur]

Barr went to work for the ACLU as a consultant shortly after he left Congress in 2000.

[Radioactive]

Does it not bother you that the government wants a national ID card...and yet delcares the Minutemen down on the border as outlaw vigalantees and yet leaves the border wide open so terrorists can enter and attack.

We must have an open discussion about the warnings that were given by people in this government which other people in this government ignored that allowed 9/11 to happen.

[sinkspur]

We must have an open discussion about the warnings that were given by people in this government which other people in this government ignored that allowed 9/11 to happen.

It's been discussed to death. There was no vast conspiracy on the part of the Bush administration to allow 9/11 to happen so an oil pipeline could be built across Afghanistan.

[oceanview]

no, it simply tells us where its worth putting our focus. you can tune into most episodes of COPS and see more civil rights violations then the patriot act is causing.

[Ramius]

Secret warrants, issued by secret judges, concerning secret material, served by secret LEOs, and if the subject of the warrant finds out, somehow, that they were served and doesn't keep it secret, automatic prison. That's the problem I have with the Unpatriot Act.

Well... If I believed any of that stuff, I'd have a problem with it too. But nothing there is really true.

[Ramius]

Does it not bother you that the government wants a national ID card...

No... there's no national ID card (though it might be a useful thing) but rather just standards for state ID's. State ID's are a mess, and there is some good that needs to be done there.

and yet delcares the Minutemen down on the border as outlaw vigalantees

Vigilantes? Well... that's what they are. Not that there's anything wrong with that....

and yet leaves the border wide open so terrorists can enter and attack.

It's not fair to say that the border is wide open. It's not. But there are too many illegals that get across, I agree.

We must have an open discussion about the warnings that were given by people in this government which other people in this government ignored that allowed 9/11 to happen.

"allowed" 9/11 to happen? Please... warnings? Somebody called up and told somebody that 19 terrorists were on such and such flights and they were going to crash them into buildings on the eleventh of september? What that got to do with borders? The hijackers flew into this country on legal visas. They didn't come across with coyotes.

[eno_]

If it wasn't for luring gullible people into "consenting" to searches of dubious legality at traffic stops, the solution rate at most PDs would be ZERO.