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States May Disobey Drivers License Rules
Newsday ^ | May 10, 2005 | Suzanne Gamboa

Posted on 05/10/2005 8:11:51 AM PDT by auzerais

States May Disobey Driver's License Rules

By SUZANNE GAMBOA Associated Press Writer May 10, 2005, 8:19 AM EDT

WASHINGTON -- States are threatening to challenge in court and even disobey new orders from Congress to start issuing more uniform driver's licenses and verify the citizenship or legal status of people getting them.

There is concern among some states that they'll get stuck with a large tab to pay for implementing the new rules and that getting a driver's license will become a bigger headache for law-abiding residents.

"Governors are looking at all their options. If more than half of the governors agree we're not going

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2006; 2006elections; aliens; bigbrother; borderpolice; borders; bordersecurity; bushamnesty; driverslicense; driverslicenses; drugs; federalfunding; governors; id; illegalaliens; illegals; immigrantlist; nationalid; nationalsecurity; privacy; realid; statesrights; voterfraud; wot; yourpapersplease
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OK, here's my solution:

When the next terrorist attack occurs, whatever state that willfully dis-obeyed the new ID rules for DLs and gave a DL to a terrorist, that State must pay the full economic costs -including all payments to the victims' families- of the terrorist attack.

1 posted on 05/10/2005 8:11:51 AM PDT by auzerais
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To: auzerais
There is concern among some states that issuing boatloads of licenses to illegal aliens in hopes of pandering to the pro-illegal lobby getting a driver's license will become a bigger headache for law-abiding residents.
2 posted on 05/10/2005 8:13:48 AM PDT by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: auzerais

i dont understand why this is so hard


3 posted on 05/10/2005 8:14:13 AM PDT by jneesy (certified southern right wing hillbilly nutjob)
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To: auzerais
orders from Congress to start issuing more uniform driver's licenses and verify the citizenship or legal status of people getting them.
And the provision in the Constitution authorizing the Congress to make such an edict?
4 posted on 05/10/2005 8:14:21 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: jneesy
Just cut off federal money to states that opt out. No reason the taxpayers have to pay for their niggardly attitude towards our national security.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
5 posted on 05/10/2005 8:15:40 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: GrandEagle
And the provision in the Constitution authorizing the Congress to make such an edict?

I would tie this to reciprocity. If one state issues a driver's license, it is honored as ID in all states under federal law. So if a few states have lax guidelines, it undermines the integrity of those states who have sound guidelines.

6 posted on 05/10/2005 8:16:37 AM PDT by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: auzerais
States are threatening to challenge in court and even disobey new orders from Congress to start issuing more uniform driver's licenses and verify the citizenship or legal status of people getting them. There is concern among some states that they'll get stuck with a large tab to pay for implementing the new rules

Sounds like a legitimate Federalist objection.

and that getting a driver's license will become a bigger headache for law-abiding residents.

I went with my son when he obtained his first license. He needed a birth certificate, a Social Security card, a picture ID, and proof of residence. What more is going to be required under the new laws? This objection I discredit.

7 posted on 05/10/2005 8:16:48 AM PDT by RonF
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To: GrandEagle
I can cite two: the rule providing for uniform naturalization and the federal government's control over citizenship and the interstate commerce clause.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
8 posted on 05/10/2005 8:16:59 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: GrandEagle

This probably should have been initiated by the council of Governors, but it's still a pretty good idea.


9 posted on 05/10/2005 8:17:02 AM PDT by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: jneesy

Because it is none of the business of the national government? Of course most of what those hacks do is none of the business of the national goverment but that hasn't stopped them for over a hundred years


10 posted on 05/10/2005 8:18:34 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: GrandEagle
And the provision in the Constitution authorizing the Congress to make such an edict?

Given that drivers licenses are used in interstate commerce and upon federal (and federally funded) highways I think congress probably has more authority in this area than a lot of areas they already claim to have it.

Note: Please don't flame me everyone, I'm not saying they're right, simply noting what the answer will be.

11 posted on 05/10/2005 8:19:04 AM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines ("I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."--S. Townsley on Ithaca)
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To: Little Pig
I've got no problem with requiring legal status or citizenship before issuing a license. The part about issuing a "uniform" license though is just another way to get a federal ID card without legislating it.
I do not want a "Papers Please" society.

Just an opinion -

Regards,
GE
12 posted on 05/10/2005 8:19:46 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: goldstategop
Just cut off federal money to states that opt out. No reason the taxpayers have to pay for their niggardly attitude towards our national security.

Agree with both parts of your suggestion but suggest it still doesn't go far enough for the intent of making this country more secure. Perhaps for any state that 'opts out' we would also require a passport to travel to and from. Which would also mean some checking at the borders for people not flying. AND all expense for doing so must also be bourne by that state.

13 posted on 05/10/2005 8:20:06 AM PDT by AgThorn (Bush is my president, but he needs to protect our borders. FIRST, before any talk of "Amnesty.")
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To: auzerais

Easy, prohibit the use of drivers licenses issued in those states as valid ID for bording an airplane.


14 posted on 05/10/2005 8:21:02 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: auzerais

The states are complaining that they have to become document verification experts, and they have a point. It makes getting a driver's license similar to getting a passport. There's an idea--the states could pass laws that require their citizens to show a valid US passport before they get a driver's license. Then the doc verification effort is pushed off on the feds (won't that make them happy!).


15 posted on 05/10/2005 8:21:11 AM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Please don't flame me everyone,
LOL!!
You probably right. The ever expanding interstate commerce clause will probably be used.

GE
16 posted on 05/10/2005 8:21:20 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Exactly. Motorists in all 50 states DO drive on federally funded and built freeways. So the feds do get to have a say as to who can drive on them. They're still officially called "The Interstate Defense And Limited Access System."

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
17 posted on 05/10/2005 8:21:46 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
the rule providing for uniform naturalization and the federal government's control over citizenship

We already have that in the form of passports and other immigration laws already on the books. Unfortunately Republicans and the other worthless politicians have no plans to enforce those laws so create some more right?

interstate commerce clause

However this is a license specifying you have the ability to drive within the state that issued you the license, therefore a intrastate clause. Full faith and credit would apply for other states to accept your home state's license, but again not an issue for the national government

18 posted on 05/10/2005 8:22:01 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: GrandEagle
And the provision in the Constitution authorizing the Congress to make such an edict?

I think it's the "Act In Haste" clause. Or the "For the Children" amendment. It's gotta' be in there somewhere.

; )

19 posted on 05/10/2005 8:22:21 AM PDT by IRememberElian
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To: auzerais
Sounds fair ~ still, the penalty on their citizenry is going to be rather instant. Without an acceptable form of identification (a qualifying driver's licesnse, state ID or passport), they may have difficulty doing business with a federally chartered bank, paying their federal taxes (or getting refunds of same), or engaging in interstate commerce.

The real issue here, though, is the need for wealthy matrons in Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, and Phoenix to have maids with drivers licenses. That's why there's any dispute at all surrounding the matter.

20 posted on 05/10/2005 8:22:39 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: goldstategop
Sure, just let the Feds introduce one unfunded mandate after another and let the states and state tax payers pick up the tab.
21 posted on 05/10/2005 8:23:37 AM PDT by jsbankston
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To: goldstategop
They drive on highways paid for out of federal taxes, but which are otherwise BUILT BY THE STATES.

The only place you'll find a federally built highway is on a military reservation, national park, Washington DC, etc.

22 posted on 05/10/2005 8:24:00 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GrandEagle

" I do not want a "Papers Please" society."

Amen brother


23 posted on 05/10/2005 8:24:15 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: auzerais
I plan on dropping out of the driver's license game when my present license expires. I haven't been stopped by a cop in thirty years. I don't write checks anymore. I don't fly in commercial airplanes. I've had the same open bank account for twenty years. If someone needs ID from me, they will just have to grow accustom to my face. I will continue to carry my birth announcement that appeared in The Dallas Times Herald the day after I was born. That's in case I drop dead on the street and they need to identify my corpse.
24 posted on 05/10/2005 8:25:58 AM PDT by whereasandsoforth (Stamp out liberals with the big boot of truth)
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To: billbears
Most states have signed compacts that recognize each other's drivers' licenses as valid as though they were issued in the home state. This is to make it easy on visitors and tourists. Of course if you do intend to move to another state to take up permanent residence, you have to exchange drivers' licenses and car plates. The time frame depends on the state concerned but usually not exceeding 30 days.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
25 posted on 05/10/2005 8:27:51 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: IRememberElian
I think it's the "Act In Haste" clause. Or the "For the Children" amendment.
LOL - (If it were not so true)
I forgot about those.
26 posted on 05/10/2005 8:29:29 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: muawiyah
More like built and maintained by the states but the money comes from Washington. The only non-contiguous U.S freeway is in Hawaii.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
27 posted on 05/10/2005 8:29:30 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: dirtboy
I thought the DL original purpose was to verify that the State which issued it confirmed that the individual to whom it was issued to proved to the same that he/she had the necessary skills to safely operate a motor-driven vehicle.
28 posted on 05/10/2005 8:29:44 AM PDT by greydog
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To: GrandEagle
Like it or not, we will soon be a country where you need internal passports to travel interstate.

I remember movies in the 80's where Russians could not understand why we in the US didn't need papers to travel in country.

I fear my children will not know what it means to be able to go anywhere in the US without hitting check points.
29 posted on 05/10/2005 8:31:44 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: jsbankston

The same people that pay federal taxes pay state taxes. If I have a choice between increasing my federal taxes so they can send money to my state to pay for this program, or simply having my state raise taxes, I would rather just have the state raise taxes. That way there is no middleman, we get all the money we pay in (rather than it going to other states), and if we can do the task efficiently we actually get rewarded, rather than screwed.

This IS a national ID card. We need a national ID card, because we require picture ID to fly on an airplane (among many other things). But states already have driver licenses and so it is much less expensive to piggy-back on the state license process already in place.

The states that do a bad job of checking people for licenses will have a bigger additional expense than those who check more thoroughly now.

In Virginia, we issued driver licenses to several of the hijackers. Those licenses allowed them to get on the airplanes that killed our fellow citizens.

A libertarian would not at all like that we have to provide proof of who we are to simply live our lives. But unless we want to just get rid of airplane security (a valid idea in my opinion) we need to make it mean something.


30 posted on 05/10/2005 8:34:09 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT (http://spaces.msn.com/members/criticallythinking)
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To: auzerais
Our President, our legislators, and our gub'mint are not only negligent, but insubordinate.

Impeach them ALL for ignoring the will of the people AND disregarding the law of the land.

31 posted on 05/10/2005 8:35:16 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: redgolum
I fear my children will not know what it means to be able to go anywhere in the US without hitting check points.

Well, if the government had secured our borders after 9/11 and the states just didn't issue licenses to just anyone, and the social security admin verified a person's citizenship before handing out a number, and illegals we detained and deported always, then maybe such a thing would not come to pass. Americans are not forcing this issue. The government not enforcing its own laws are causing the problem.

32 posted on 05/10/2005 8:36:29 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: redgolum
I do understand that it is headed that way. BUT, I will resist at every opportunity. I will not willingly lay down and conform.

Cordially,
GE
33 posted on 05/10/2005 8:36:47 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: goldstategop
The Federal government could certainly pass a law forbidding States to issue driver's licenses to immigrants and/or illegals, but I don't see any Constitutional basis for them to do this.

A DL is by its very nature intrastate. If one State objected to another State's licenses you might have a Federal issue but that is not the case.

We use DLs for ID as a convenience but that doesn't change the fact that all it is is a license to operate a motor vehicle.

The Feds may have it in their power to mandate a passport as ID for certain things they have control over, such as plane travel, but they have no Constitutional authority to mandate standards for an intrastate license issued to US Citizen-residents of a particular State.

My take on this is that this is clearly beyond the powers granted to the Federal government by the Constitution. However, if the Feds addressed their Constitutional responsibility to secure the borders, deport every illegal alien they found, etc. they would have no reason to take these unconstitutional measures.
34 posted on 05/10/2005 8:37:14 AM PDT by Ragnorak
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To: F16Fighter
YEAH!!!! What you said!!!

Why in the hell are we in Iraq and Afghanistan if our government will turn a blind eye to unsecured borders?

35 posted on 05/10/2005 8:38:50 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: Ragnorak
However, if the Feds addressed their Constitutional responsibility to secure the borders, deport every illegal alien they found, etc. they would have no reason to take these unconstitutional measures.

AMEN!
36 posted on 05/10/2005 8:39:13 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: redgolum
I must really be missing something here, or my tinfoil hat isn't fitting correctly. I fail to see how demanding that states actually check before granting a driver's license to see if a person is who they say they are, and that they are in this country legally, will lead to having to "show papers" in order to go anywhere. I'd much rather know that a document used as a form of ID is at least checked for accuracy before turning the holder loose on society. Perhaps I'm just not sufficiently paranoid.
37 posted on 05/10/2005 8:40:40 AM PDT by Jokelahoma (Animal testing is a bad idea. They get all nervous and give wrong answers.)
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To: RonF
"I went with my son when he obtained his first license. He needed a birth certificate, a Social Security card, a picture ID, and proof of residence. What more is going to be required under the new laws? "

Well if your son could have shown a consular matricula from the Mexican Consulate, he wouldn't have needed all those documents in Illinois.

38 posted on 05/10/2005 8:44:03 AM PDT by cookcounty ("We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts" ---Abe Lincoln, 1858.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
In ten years we will have to go to a Fed Identification Center and get our eyes scanned, a DNA Swab and a chip implanted in our butts.
39 posted on 05/10/2005 8:48:33 AM PDT by jsbankston
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To: Jokelahoma

I think the point is that once the DL becomes a uniform document, it will become easier to check for validity. In most cases when such an "internal passport" is created, it isn't long before it starts being treated that way, and being required to move from place to place (either through blatant border crossings, or through "just checking to see if you're legit, by the way, where are you going and why?"). Many in the US are concerned that if such a uniform document is implemented here, it won't be long before the government decides to start using it to monitor folks.


40 posted on 05/10/2005 8:49:03 AM PDT by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: billbears; goldstategop

The Interstate Commerce clause allows Congress to regulate the channels of commerce, which the Interstate Highway System clearly is.


41 posted on 05/10/2005 8:50:35 AM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: agitator

Interesting development.


42 posted on 05/10/2005 8:51:33 AM PDT by nunya bidness (Remember, they hated Him first.)
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To: auzerais
In Austin Texas the Police will not arrest illegals due to their status and will not call INS when an illegal is arrested for a crime or interviewed by Police.

The Function of this policy is to not intimidate the Illegals to go to Police when they are victim of or witness a crime. As a result Crime Rates have dropped and rates of arrest have increased.

43 posted on 05/10/2005 8:56:10 AM PDT by jsbankston
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


44 posted on 05/10/2005 9:01:27 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: jsbankston
As a result Crime Rates have dropped and rates of arrest have increased.

Gee, imagine if we just didn't allow illegals to stream over our border in the first place, and remove illegals when we find them.

Nah, that's much too simple in this day and age of nuance.

45 posted on 05/10/2005 9:03:10 AM PDT by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: gubamyster

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Be Ever Vigilant!

Minutemen Patriots ~ Bump!


46 posted on 05/10/2005 9:04:00 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: IRememberElian; All

Probaly the we gotta do something about illegal aliens no matter what it takes clause...


47 posted on 05/10/2005 9:07:20 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: GrandEagle

Bingo!!! Wait til they start branding us like cattle!


48 posted on 05/10/2005 9:14:06 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert (Texas Cowboy...you da man!!)
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To: goldstategop

"More like built and maintained by the states but the money comes from Washington"

Tell me one more time where this money comes from. Except this time, think before you answer.


49 posted on 05/10/2005 9:16:19 AM PDT by VRing
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To: goldstategop

Washington has no money, except what WE send them; then they dole it back to us in bits and pieces with LOTS of regs attached, and it goes through HUGH bureaucracies first which sucks up half of what they got.


50 posted on 05/10/2005 9:18:20 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert (Texas Cowboy...you da man!!)
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