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Creationism: God's gift to the ignorant (Religion bashing alert)
Times Online UK ^ | May 21, 2005 | Richard Dawkins

Posted on 05/25/2005 3:41:22 AM PDT by billorites

Science feeds on mystery. As my colleague Matt Ridley has put it: “Most scientists are bored by what they have already discovered. It is ignorance that drives them on.” Science mines ignorance. Mystery — that which we don’t yet know; that which we don’t yet understand — is the mother lode that scientists seek out. Mystics exult in mystery and want it to stay mysterious. Scientists exult in mystery for a very different reason: it gives them something to do.

Admissions of ignorance and mystification are vital to good science. It is therefore galling, to say the least, when enemies of science turn those constructive admissions around and abuse them for political advantage. Worse, it threatens the enterprise of science itself. This is exactly the effect that creationism or “intelligent design theory” (ID) is having, especially because its propagandists are slick, superficially plausible and, above all, well financed. ID, by the way, is not a new form of creationism. It simply is creationism disguised, for political reasons, under a new name.

It isn’t even safe for a scientist to express temporary doubt as a rhetorical device before going on to dispel it.

“To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” You will find this sentence of Charles Darwin quoted again and again by creationists. They never quote what follows. Darwin immediately went on to confound his initial incredulity. Others have built on his foundation, and the eye is today a showpiece of the gradual, cumulative evolution of an almost perfect illusion of design. The relevant chapter of my Climbing Mount Improbable is called “The fortyfold Path to Enlightenment” in honour of the fact that, far from being difficult to evolve, the eye has evolved at least 40 times independently around the animal kingdom.

The distinguished Harvard geneticist Richard Lewontin is widely quoted as saying that organisms “appear to have been carefully and artfully designed”. Again, this was a rhetorical preliminary to explaining how the powerful illusion of design actually comes about by natural selection. The isolated quotation strips out the implied emphasis on “appear to”, leaving exactly what a simple-mindedly pious audience — in Kansas, for instance — wants to hear.

The deceitful misquoting of scientists to suit an anti-scientific agenda ranks among the many unchristian habits of fundamentalist authors. But such Telling Lies for God (the book title of the splendidly pugnacious Australian geologist Ian Plimer) is not the most serious problem. There is a more important point to be made, and it goes right to the philosophical heart of creationism.

The standard methodology of creationists is to find some phenomenon in nature which Darwinism cannot readily explain. Darwin said: “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Creationists mine ignorance and uncertainty in order to abuse his challenge. “Bet you can’t tell me how the elbow joint of the lesser spotted weasel frog evolved by slow gradual degrees?” If the scientist fails to give an immediate and comprehensive answer, a default conclusion is drawn: “Right, then, the alternative theory; ‘intelligent design’ wins by default.”

Notice the biased logic: if theory A fails in some particular, theory B must be right! Notice, too, how the creationist ploy undermines the scientist’s rejoicing in uncertainty. Today’s scientist in America dare not say: “Hm, interesting point. I wonder how the weasel frog’s ancestors did evolve their elbow joint. I’ll have to go to the university library and take a look.” No, the moment a scientist said something like that the default conclusion would become a headline in a creationist pamphlet: “Weasel frog could only have been designed by God.”

I once introduced a chapter on the so-called Cambrian Explosion with the words: “It is as though the fossils were planted there without any evolutionary history.” Again, this was a rhetorical overture, intended to whet the reader’s appetite for the explanation. Inevitably, my remark was gleefully quoted out of context. Creationists adore “gaps” in the fossil record.

Many evolutionary transitions are elegantly documented by more or less continuous series of changing intermediate fossils. Some are not, and these are the famous “gaps”. Michael Shermer has wittily pointed out that if a new fossil discovery neatly bisects a “gap”, the creationist will declare that there are now two gaps! Note yet again the use of a default. If there are no fossils to document a postulated evolutionary transition, the assumption is that there was no evolutionary transition: God must have intervened.

The creationists’ fondness for “gaps” in the fossil record is a metaphor for their love of gaps in knowledge generally. Gaps, by default, are filled by God. You don’t know how the nerve impulse works? Good! You don’t understand how memories are laid down in the brain? Excellent! Is photosynthesis a bafflingly complex process? Wonderful! Please don’t go to work on the problem, just give up, and appeal to God. Dear scientist, don’t work on your mysteries. Bring us your mysteries for we can use them. Don’t squander precious ignorance by researching it away. Ignorance is God’s gift to Kansas.

Richard Dawkins, FRS, is the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science, at Oxford University. His latest book is The Ancestor’s Tale


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: biblethumpers; cary; creation; crevolist; dawkins; evolution; excellentessay; funnyresponses; hahahahahahaha; liberalgarbage; phenryjerkalert; smegheads
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To: Liberal Classic

First please fact check my post #108(you seem to be much more knowledgeable on science). Second, if I understand your post you are somewhat supporting my point that science is often man's best guess. Most of the time it is right but it could be wrong.


121 posted on 05/25/2005 7:38:42 AM PDT by armymarinedad (Character makes you draw a line in the dirt.)
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To: donh
Is there any evidence supporting the theory of gravitation that would make it a "law"?

I believe the appropriate answer is "it's turtles the whole way down".

;-)

122 posted on 05/25/2005 7:40:05 AM PDT by TomB ("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
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To: AndrewC
I've gleaned quite a bit about your interpretations of the Bible. You and Elsie quote verses quite a lot.
123 posted on 05/25/2005 7:40:15 AM PDT by narby (Ignorance is God’s gift to Kansas.)
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To: photodawg

"That does not mean further investigation will not make it necessary to revise the theory in light of new evidence. We search for objective truth and are not slave to any particular theory."

Exactly, that is the most scientific statement I have read on this subject for a long time.

If both evolutionist scientists and creationist scientists approached the subject matter with this degree of detachment, the science all round would be better, and it would also progress at a greater rate.


124 posted on 05/25/2005 7:40:57 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: patriot_wes
He's given us in His book?

Who's "He"? Thor? Mohammed? Mormoni? Buddha? So many have given so much ... how does one choose? By what they were taught at a young & impressionable age?

125 posted on 05/25/2005 7:41:38 AM PDT by lemura
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To: flevit

I thought that six days of work and one day of rest derived its importance from creation, not that it was important in and of itself. The notion of the sabbath comes from God's day of rest.


126 posted on 05/25/2005 7:42:15 AM PDT by stremba
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To: Sybeck1
Under the banner of "theistic evolution," a growing number of Christians maintain that God used evolution as His method for creation. This, in my estimation, is the worst of all possibilities.

It is one thing to believe in evolution, it is quite another to blame God for it. Not only is theistic evolution a contradiction in terms -- like the phrase flaming snowflakes -- but as we have seen, it is also the cruelest, most inefficient system for creation imaginable...

Does God have to make millions of mistakes along the way to have fellowship with you and me?

Well, that's certainly an odd take on the issue. You seem to be endorsing a view that God could not possibly have been responsible for an evolutionary process that resulted in the cruelty and inefficiency we actually observe in nature. Instead, God must have purposefully manipulated all of the minutia of organic matter into ... um ... the cruelty and inefficiency we actually observe in nature.

127 posted on 05/25/2005 7:42:29 AM PDT by atlaw
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To: VadeRetro

then would you allow that he could communicate to us his likeness? maybe even teach to us by example by lowering himself to a human form?

well I got you to except the four words of creation "it was very good" part of the bible,hahaha, phew got to take a rest. the fall through resurection will most likely be a bit tougher.


128 posted on 05/25/2005 7:43:02 AM PDT by flevit
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To: stremba
What scientists actually strive for are theories, not laws.

Agreed. And this brings up a bigger point. If you look at the "research" the creationists do, it ALL involves proving the evolutionists wrong. None of it is original research on their part. How do you "prove" God created the universe? You can't, it's an article of faith.

129 posted on 05/25/2005 7:44:28 AM PDT by TomB ("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
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To: flevit
You seem to be having much of this conversation in your head without me. Kinda spooky.
130 posted on 05/25/2005 7:45:28 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: AndrewC

If by "heaven" one means universe, no problem.


I continuing issue I have is that God was not writing a textbook, nor was He addressing a scientific convention, yet many expect His words to be interpreted as if He were.


131 posted on 05/25/2005 7:45:42 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: narby
I've gleaned quite a bit about your interpretations of the Bible.

Okay? So show me my interpretation that does not agree with science. Otherwise, it is your interpretation of my use of biblical quotes which is at variance with science. The fact that I think Darwinism is insufficient to the task for which it purports to suffice is not a biblical interpretation.

132 posted on 05/25/2005 7:45:58 AM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: narby

Yet they have $25 million for a museum.


133 posted on 05/25/2005 7:46:42 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: armymarinedad

Actually, it was widely known in ancient Greece that the earth was round. Erastothanes actually measured the circumference of the earth to a surprisingly high degree of accuracy considering the technology available at the time. The belief in a round earth persisted for most of the history of western civilization, at least among the educated. It was really only the uneducated masses during the middle ages who believed in a flat earth. However, none of that has anything to do with science or what scientists believed. There was really nothing resembling science in ancient Greece or medieval Europe. By the time science became well established, there was little debate (I can't state that there was none since there are still flat-earthers around today) about whether or not the earth was round.


134 posted on 05/25/2005 7:47:30 AM PDT by stremba
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To: wallcrawlr

bttt


135 posted on 05/25/2005 7:48:54 AM PDT by trisham ("Live Free or Die," General John Stark, July 31, 1809)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
I'm merely pointing out that the same people who believe that every change in the environment is "destroying the delicate balance of nature" also believe in the evolution of life to adapt to changes in the environment. Yet, they want us to curtail our activities in such a way as to freeze that same environment in place. And just for fun, they set up Christians as a convenient strawman.

Christians are being blamed for pollution? That's one I haven't heard before. (Seems like the desperate victimology of certain sects is resulting in some pretty imaginative persecutions.)

136 posted on 05/25/2005 7:48:56 AM PDT by atlaw
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To: N. Theknow

You seem to have read what I wrote with your expectations.

Man is imperfect. Correct?


137 posted on 05/25/2005 7:49:36 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: armymarinedad; TomB; donh; stremba
However at the time it was believed the evidence was considered strong that the earth was flat. Science had to change however when man learned different.

...just as belief in de novo creation of mankind had to change when man learned differently.

If scientist much more knowledgeable than me were so certain of evolution it would be scientific law not scientific theory.

With all due respect, this is complete nonsense. Laws and theories are two different things in science. Theories never get "promoted" to laws. The fact that something is a theory and not a law says absolutely nothing about the degree of confidence in it.

Here's a good overview of the distinction (from http://evolution.mbdojo.com/theory.html):

But it's "JUST a THEORY"
Version 1.0
Copyright 1999 by Ken Harding
[last update August 24, 1999]



 

This is such a common complaint about evolution that it deserves a page of it's own.  This comment is born out of misuse of the word theory.  People who make statements like: "But it's only a theory; it's not a scientific law," or "It's a theory, not a fact," don't really know the meanings of the words their using.

Theory does not mean guess, or hunch, or hypothesis.  A theory does not change into a scientific law with the accumulation of new or better evidence.  A theory will always be a theory, a law will always be a law.  A theory will never become a law, and a law never was a theory.

The following definitions, based on information from the National Academy of Sciences, should help anyone understand why evolution is not "just a theory."

A scientific law is a description of an observed phenomenon.  Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion are a good example.  Those laws describe the motions of planets.  But they do not explain why they are that way.  If all scientists ever did was to formulate scientific laws, then the universe would be very well-described, but still unexplained and very mysterious.

A theory is a scientific explanation of an observed phenomenon.  Unlike laws, theories actually explain why things are the way they are.  Theories are what science is for.  If, then, a theory is a scientific explanation of a natural phenomena, ask yourself this: "What part of that definition excludes a theory from being a fact?"  The answer is nothing!  There is no reason a theory cannot be an actual fact as well.

For example, there is the phenomenon of gravity, which you can feel. It is a fact that you can feel it, and that bodies caught in a gravitational field will fall towards the center.  Then there is the theory of gravity, which explains the phenomenon of gravity, based on observation, physical evidence and experiment. Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity replaced the less accurate gravity theory of Sir Isaac Newton, which was the first complete mathematical theory formulated which described a fundamental force.

There is the modern theory of evolution, neo-darwinism. It is a synthesis of many scientific fields (biology, population genetics, paleontology, embryology, geology, zoology, microbiology, botany, and more). It replaces darwinism, which replaced lamarckism, which replaced the hypotheses of Erasmus Darwin (Charles' grandfather), which expanded the ideas of Georges de Buffon, which in turn expanded upon the classification of Karl von Linne.  (see also:  Darwin's Precursors and Influences)

So there is the theory of evolution.  Then there is the FACT of evolution.  Species change-- there is variation within one kind of animal. There is a predictable range of genetic variation in a species, as well as an expected rate of random mutations. Creationists readily admit that a "kind" (an ambiguous, non-scientific term) can develop into different species (i.e. a dog "kind" can evolve into wolves, coyotes, foxes, and all types of domestic dogs) but they insist that it must stop there.  They never give any reason for this fabricated limitation-- they just deny that it can happen.  They just can't accept macroevolution, because it contradicts the "truth" of their dogma. But in reality, there is no limit to the degree that a species can change. Given enough time, a fish-like species can evolve into a amphibian-like species, an amphibian-like species can evolve into a reptilian-like species, a reptilian-like species can evolve into a mammalian-like species, and an ape-like species can evolve into the modern human species.

The process (simply stated) involves the genetic potential of many different types of individuals within a species, the birth of a great many individual organisms, and the deaths of those individuals whose characteristics are not as well suited to the total environment as other individuals of the same species. The deaths of these less well suited individuals allows for the increased reproduction of the better suited ones, which initiates a shift in the appearance and function of the species. Without limitation.  There is more genetic stuff to it than that, but that is basically how it works.

Yes, evolution is a fact, as real as gravity. The fact that all species alive today have descended from a common ancestor can be denied, but not refuted. We know it happens because we can observe it directly in short-lived species, and for longer lived species there is genetic and fossil evidence that is unambiguous. There is no other scientific explanation for the diversity of living species.  Evolution is a very well established scientific concept with a massive amount of physical evidence for support.  It is not a guess.  Evolution is the basis of modern biology, and  universities and laboratories across the world are engaged in research that explores evolution.

You don't have to 'believe' in evolution. You can trust that the thousands of scientists who study this phenomenon aren't morons, or Satanists. You can accept the general idea that life propagates with modifications, and those modifications can lead to improved survival, and that as those modifications are passed over time, many modifications can lead to a species that looks very different from its predecessor. Is that so hard to accept?

I have no faith at all in evolution. (I also have no faith in algebra, chemistry or astronomy). Evolution either stands or falls by the strength of the evidence used to substantiate it. Evolutionary biology relies on factual data, physical evidence, molecular experimentation, and it goes hand in hand with geology.

Some people can say "Well, scientists weren't there... they don't know what happened.  It's still faith."   But that is mere blind objectionism, like an ostrich hiding its head in the sand.  There are real reasons behind the science of reconstructing the past.  My favorite analogy is forensic science. A man can murder someone (with no witnesses), and scientists can reconstruct the scene with such accuracy as to pinpoint the guilty person-- with such accuracy as to cause that man to receive the death penalty.  For example, most Americans are convinced of O.J. Simpson's guilt... even though no one was there to see him do it.   The situation with evolution is much the same-- reconstructing the past through examination of the evidence.  It's true that not every theory withstands the test of time and goes on to be considered a fact by nearly all of the scientific community, but evolution is one that has.

See also:  Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

This is the statement from the National Academy of Science:
 

Is Evolution a fact or a theory?
The theory of evolution explains how life on earth has changed. In scientific terms, "theory" does not mean "guess" or "hunch" as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. Biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the enormous range of observations about the living world.  Scientists most often use the word "fact" to describe an observation. But scientists can also use fact to mean something that has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples. The occurrence of evolution in this sense is a fact.  Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence supporting the idea is so strong.

Why isn't evolution called a law?
Laws are generalizations that describe phenomena, whereas theories explain phenomena. For example, the laws of thermodynamics describe what will happen under certain circumstances; thermodynamics theories explain why these events occur. Laws, like facts and theories, can change with better data. But theories do not develop into laws with the accumulation of evidence. Rather, theories are the goal of science.

Speaking of creationist distortions, note how often the creationist websites and books use the "just a theory" or "hasn't been promoted to a law yet, so there" fallacies. The creationist writers either don't know any better (despite this being a very elementary scientific concept) or do know better and are misrepresenting the case -- and neither option inspires confidence.

Creationist sources are *very* poor places to try to "learn" about science of any sort. They fail to understand a lot of it, and misrepresent most of the rest.

138 posted on 05/25/2005 7:50:16 AM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: TomB

True, but the real problem with creationism is "How do you prove that God didn't create the universe?" The answer is you can't. The basic premise of creationism is unfalsifiable and hence untestable. Since it is untestable it cannot form the basis for a scientific theory, which by definition must be testable.


139 posted on 05/25/2005 7:50:16 AM PDT by stremba
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To: Junior
"Herein you are making an assumption that the Bible is God's Word. You assume that because the Book claims to be the Word of God, and people you respect claim it is the Word of God. You have no empirical evidence that this is actually the case.

I don't need any, the word speaks for itself. I choose to believe it is true. Also I believe God wouldn't inspire it to be written only to let it be incorrect in what it says. Think about it - 66 books, 40 different authors, written over a period of 2000 years and all in perfect harmony. It is so kool, Shalom

PS. consider the sacrifice story and wedding of Isaac in Genesis, it reveals the whole of eternal truth of the entire bible!

Anyone who wants to know more can write me ... wes@brainerd.net
Hebraic Hills Ministry

140 posted on 05/25/2005 7:51:37 AM PDT by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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