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Surviving a Nuclear Attack on Washington, D.C.
National Journal ^ | June 24th 2005 | By Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.

Posted on 06/24/2005 10:54:52 AM PDT by ExSoldier

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To: GOPJ

Thanks.

With some pretty pointed comments and speculations from the powers that be/in the know etc.

How much more LIKE PLANNED do they want to make it???


151 posted on 06/24/2005 1:58:27 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: cvq3842
If they could have done it already, they would have.

What you said has no logic.

A scenario like this could have been planned two years ago, and could come together anytime in the future.

What if the componets for the device and the plans to position it and detonate it came together 4 weeks from now, or a year from now, after being planned for the past 2 years?

152 posted on 06/24/2005 1:58:36 PM PDT by Black Tooth
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To: DTogo
Good afternoon.

The loss of the National Archives would be heartbreaking and the possible loss of Molly Henneberg(SP?) would suck, too.

Michael Frazier
153 posted on 06/24/2005 2:02:54 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: JAKraig

The UN Security Council would never give us a resolution to bomb the ME back into the stone age (not that the ME is all that far removed from the stone age to begin with).

Seriously, though, while I share your enthusiasm, I have far less faith in the American sheeple's resolve, even in the aftermath of a nuclear attack.


154 posted on 06/24/2005 2:04:59 PM PDT by kevao
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To: Terabitten
I lean toward Kansas and Nebraska if this ever came to reality, but the point is we can relocate the capital. The Constitution only states it cannot exceed 10 miles square.

It would be easy to pick an area in a central state that would offer a great expanse of land for development. Here's another thought. Don't allow residential development within the new capital. Keep the residential developments away from the government structures to further security. They would be like suburbs.

Oh yeah! I forgot another major reason to move the capital. The Democrats have for years pushed the idea of statehood for Washington, DC., and slowly their idea is gaining strength. Moving the capital and returning the land of the present capital to the states, deflates that balloon forever. If the Democrats ever did succeed in statehood for Washington DC, it would soon be followed by other city states like Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco, Boston, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, and on, and on, and on.

Now would be the time to enact the move in Congress while the "Red States" have control of Congress. It would take a simple majority vote to make this happen. With the economic gains to be had, even California, Oregon and Washington would join the "Red States".
155 posted on 06/24/2005 2:05:14 PM PDT by backtothestreets
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To: Dubyous

It was a joke, maybe a poor one, but an obvious one nonetheless.

I think you may need to lighten up.


156 posted on 06/24/2005 2:09:38 PM PDT by dpa5923 (Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
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To: ExSoldier
Good afternoon.

My copy of Alas Babylon is getting pretty worn. It, along with Earth Abides, Lucifer's Hammer and Unintended Consequences sit on the same shelf in my library that contains my gunsmithing DVDs There's a lot of wisdom in those books.

Michael Frazier
157 posted on 06/24/2005 2:25:03 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville
There's a lot of wisdom in those books.

Amen! Especially in Luicifier's Hammer. Jerry Pournelle & Larry Niven, right?

158 posted on 06/24/2005 2:30:38 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: brazzaville

You're right, I forgot about Brit Hume and his staff. That would be tragic...


159 posted on 06/24/2005 2:33:42 PM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: ExSoldier

Hmmmm


160 posted on 06/24/2005 2:38:01 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: ExSoldier

I hate to admit it, but around here I would be more afraid of a scenario like this happening somewhere along the gulf in the warmer times of the year (say Orlando or Houston) or the Midwest/Great Lakes area during the colder times of the year (say Chicago or St Louis) due to the fact that air masses/jet stream would blow radiation over me and most of the rest of the country.

This is not a 9-11 scenario. When it comes down to it, it would be every man for himself for some time.


161 posted on 06/24/2005 2:40:20 PM PDT by swampmonster (From the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks....What is your heart full of?)
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To: dpa5923
It was a joke, maybe a poor one, but an obvious one nonetheless.

Ping to #114

162 posted on 06/24/2005 2:44:22 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier
Good afternoon.

Pournelle was one of my favorite authors. I haven't seen anything new by him in years. Is he still alive?

Michael Frazier
163 posted on 06/24/2005 2:46:43 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: leadpenny

This reminds me of a Time Mag. artical from the early/mid 80's saying what would happen in Detroit if a 1 Megaton bomb went off at 1-75 & 1-94 interchange.

Just hope you wouldn't be at work that day.


164 posted on 06/24/2005 2:53:32 PM PDT by Springman
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To: Springman

I'm just happy when I survive the DC traffic.


165 posted on 06/24/2005 2:55:35 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: ExSoldier

I was responding to a post in responce to #11, you direct me to a post in responce to #100.

I am not sure what you are trying to say, but post 11 was a joke and early in the thread.


166 posted on 06/24/2005 2:56:23 PM PDT by dpa5923 (Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
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To: brazzaville; All
Did you read The Mote in God's Eye? or Footfalls? I'm pretty sure he's still around. Whups, gotta go. I'm late for my Bible Study. Later, everybody.
167 posted on 06/24/2005 2:56:53 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Pete'sWife

Whitley Steiber, wasn't he the guy repeatedly abducted by aliens??


168 posted on 06/24/2005 2:59:07 PM PDT by RoseD (Oklahoma)
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To: GOPJ
If we underestimate the evil we're up against, we'll be destroyed. Bush gets it, but the democrats live in la la land.

Which is exactly why Bush has had the borders locked down to prevent people from sneaking into this country. Oh, wait....

169 posted on 06/24/2005 3:02:56 PM PDT by whd23
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To: ExSoldier
This article is also missing the other fallout. Within hours the Internet (where still operational) is full of sites declaring that we, the United States, brought this on ourselves. That we should understand the terrorists so we could realize why they did this. The news media begins a witch hunt to look for anyway this could be done by "militiamen." Many terrorist organization around the world claim this attack as theirs. America seems to become galvanized and united however it really isn't. Within days the conspiracy theorists begin making up wacko conspiracy theories. These become popular world wide. In Europe such books become best sellers. At the same time the international media begins an elaborate "appease America" operation all the while showing true sympathy side by side with those people crying crocodile tears. College professors in the US get censured though praised for saying, "aren't you glad Washington DC got nuked? They deserved it." In the following weeks and months while it seems the US is going to do something about this attack in terms of retribution, the false sympathy begins to evaporate. Around the world (and in every mainstream American University) people are not only glad the terrorist nuked us but also state their firm belief in a US government conspiracy. (So which is it?) When we are ready to go after the perps, many countries around the world set up road blocks to keep us from our objective. Any of this sound familiar?
170 posted on 06/24/2005 3:05:04 PM PDT by swampmonster (From the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks....What is your heart full of?)
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To: ExSoldier

Since this scenario is so likely, the federal government should begin dispersal now. Send most or at least some of the legislators home, and let them meet and vote via phones and the Internet. The President should not actually live in the White House. Leave D.C. to the locals and the tourists.

The piece does not mention what will happen to the value of urban real estate after one or two terrorist nukes explode. What happens to the economy when that much wealth simply disappears overnight?


171 posted on 06/24/2005 3:10:50 PM PDT by TChad
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To: ExSoldier

Bump


172 posted on 06/24/2005 3:13:34 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: leadpenny

LOL!!!!


173 posted on 06/24/2005 3:14:19 PM PDT by Springman
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Depends, I think.

Initially I think you're right. Market economies are resilient, and what it will really mean in the short term is that futures in lumber, building materials, etc. will be very high. Non-essentials will go low.

Depends on how many bombs go off.


174 posted on 06/24/2005 3:16:43 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: brazzaville

Pournelle is still alive and still writing, at least for Byte.

http://www.byte.com/documents/s=9502/byt1119296749209/0620_pournelle.html

I loved "The Mote in God's Eye," but probably more for Niven than Pournelle.


175 posted on 06/24/2005 3:17:02 PM PDT by TChad
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To: TChad
Good afternoon.

Thanks for the info. Yes Niven is very good.

Michael Frazier
176 posted on 06/24/2005 3:20:44 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: whd23
Which is exactly why Bush has had the borders locked down to prevent people from sneaking into this country. Oh, wait....

OK, things could be better. But he's not some idiot dem who wants to abolish borders and let everyone in... Still, you're right. The GOP has to do better on this issue:


177 posted on 06/24/2005 3:21:20 PM PDT by GOPJ (Deep Throat(s) -- top level FBI officials playing cub reporters for suckers.)
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To: RinaseaofDs

"Depends on how many bombs go off."

Probably the top 3-10 cities will go up at once. America will be ruined, but do we have the guts to ruin the islamic world and north korea in retaliation?


178 posted on 06/24/2005 3:24:15 PM PDT by G32
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To: Quix

BIG SIGH.

Lord Jesus, send revival, please save souls in the DC area.

Anoint the words of Christians and give unbelievers the ears to hear and to heed.

I plead the Blood of Jesus over my loved ones there. Mercy, Lord Jesus, I ask You for mercy on them.

Father, I ask that You hear and answer this prayer. I pray in the Name of Jesus. AMEN.


179 posted on 06/24/2005 3:28:17 PM PDT by JockoManning (www.biblegateway.com)
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To: Yo-Yo

Good one, but my favorite has to be "The Obsolete Man".


180 posted on 06/24/2005 3:32:45 PM PDT by RichInOC (CHANCELLOR: WHAT HAPPEN? ROMS: YOU SET UP US THE BOMB. CHANCELLOR: WHAT YOU SAY!!)
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To: Dubyous

Guide at the smithsonian, groundskeeper at the memorial are govt employees....

and elementary schools only take field trips to adult theatres and porno art shows where feces soaking in piss is considered high art like the ceiling of the sistine chapel used to be.

Still, you're right, too many innocents...the tradeoff isn't worth it.


181 posted on 06/24/2005 3:34:54 PM PDT by Stopislamnow (Three co-equal branches? Not anymore. Sig heil mein black robed tyrant!)
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To: G32

If they are slick enough to pull that off, I would imagine the military would hit various places just to put them on the same economic footing as we were for about the same amount of time.

Who knows? The National Command Authority is going to want some facts before they launch, and people are going to be down on the first rung of Maslow's hierarchy at that point as well. They'll be more worried about being alive than about whether we whacked the goat fornicators.

Were I President, I might whack China and North Korea. Iran and Syria. Somalia. This sounds strange, but I might also hit Mexico too. I'd conclude that the only way they could move that kind of nuclear material into the US reliably was to move through Mexico. With Fox himself handing out maps and instructions how to get in, plus stadiums full of people chanting 'Death to America' in Mexico City, I'd definitely do it (after calculating the prevailing wind patterns, of course).


182 posted on 06/24/2005 3:38:17 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: backtothestreets
Don't allow residential development within the new capital. Keep the residential developments away from the government structures to further security.

That was one of the things we'd thought about as well. No one should live in the new capital except the President and his immediate family, the Marines currently billeted at 8th and I, and the Army's Old Guard.

Nothing but pedestrian traffic allowed on the streets. We'd thought of laying out the pattern as a sort of bullseye shape - concentric rings of broad pedestrian avenues with a N-S, an E-W, a NW-SE, and a NE-SW avenue intersecting. At the center would be the White House, the Supreme Court, and the Capitol Building. Behind each one would be the various governmental agencies. The outermost ring would be where all the monuments, the Smithsonian, the Library of Congress, etc., would be. It's a lot of fun just to try to lay it out.

183 posted on 06/24/2005 3:41:32 PM PDT by Terabitten
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To: ExSoldier

Thanks. Learned some good common sense things.


184 posted on 06/24/2005 3:42:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: RinaseaofDs

I wonder what'll help when they hit Moscow too. They could very well hit China and the middle east. Certainly Chechnya would no longer exist.

Scary times.


185 posted on 06/24/2005 3:44:11 PM PDT by G32
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To: ExSoldier

I would advise all the gun owners in any area attacked to be on the look-out for follow up attacks to disrupt and harrass the first responders. It will be our job to defend against any following (manned) attacks, you become the home guard. There also may be numerous other areas attacked in less devastating ways. Be on the look-out and be prepared. BLOAT.


186 posted on 06/24/2005 3:48:19 PM PDT by blam
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To: ExSoldier

Cripes. That article makes me actually WANT to wear my MOPP suit (at Level 4) around in the 90 degree heat with 100% humidity today. ;)

Thanks for the reminder, Soldier. I am grateful nearly every day for a survival or practical skill I learned in the Army. You never do forget them.


187 posted on 06/24/2005 3:51:29 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Terabitten
I'd bet we could come up with some grand plans if everyone could work together on this.

I'd leave all our monuments and museums where they are now. The present federal buildings should all become historical sites under the control of the Parks Department or the Smithsonian. The influx of tourism to visit the great halls of Congress, the White House, and the many other buildings would probably raise enough revenue to maintain all these buildings and cover the expense of the entire department nationwide.

I figure with 10 square miles, and no residential housing, a new city would have ample space to physically separate the three branches of government. That would further secure our government from being destroyed by a single strike.

Thanks for keeping this thought alive. I'll write more to you later.
188 posted on 06/24/2005 4:16:26 PM PDT by backtothestreets
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To: G32

This is why ballistic missile defense is still viable. People believe that a nuke attack will be terrorism oriented, and they're probably right. But a massive terrorist attack - five or more cities at once with 15 MT bombs - would definitely take us off the grid economically enough that we'd have to contemplate a ballistic missile counterstrike.

Our ability to launch that counterstrike without subjecting ourselves to one would be a definite benefit.

If we get hit by ANYBODY, I would think that China would be coming across the straight in bathtubs to invade Taiwan.

I'm sure (I hope) people in DC have thought of this, but they better be prepared to fight in 1 major and 1 minor world conflict while sustaining this kind of attack.

Oddly, the military infrastructure would not have suffered much at all under this kind of an attack.

Oddly still, the only country we can't afford to retaliate against is Russia, as they have Ballistic Missile Defense overwhelming ICBM capabilities. More oddly still, they aren't much farther along economically than they were when their empire fell.


189 posted on 06/24/2005 4:30:49 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: RinaseaofDs

I doubt the Russian AMB would even work over Moscow for a few missiles. I bet we have over 200 aimed at it, so that wouldn't be a big deal at all to take it out.

I seriously doubt Russia would deserve to get hit though from us. Depends on how big the exchange gets. If it starts spiraling out of control...


190 posted on 06/24/2005 4:32:58 PM PDT by G32
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To: backtothestreets

I agree with that idea as long as no incumbents move to the new capitol and the new digs are moderate. They dont need anything fancy.


191 posted on 06/24/2005 4:52:45 PM PDT by winodog (We need to pull the fedgov.con's feeding tube)
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To: Jonathan

It would work...for about 3 days.

Right about that point, all the nuclear powers in the world (except Israel and the UK) would wonder if THEY were next on the list...and launch everything they have at us.

There would be NOTHING left, anywhere.

A better idea would be: get Riyahd, Tehran, Damascus, Amman, and Cairo. Drop 5 each on Mecca & Medina. Notify Israel they can do what they want to the Dome of the Rock.

The NCA (whoever it is) would get on a worldwide broadcast and say that unless the living bodies (or the whole dead ones)of all known terrorists are not on planes headed for whatever city they designate within 24 hours, 5 more cities with major Muslim populations would be destroyed.

If they find out the bomb came from China, demand the resignation of the entire Chinese Politburo and the handing over of the government to the US ambassador, OR kiss Shanghai goodbye, and one Chinese city a day until it happens. Same thing applies if it's a Russian bomb...and with the Russians, notify them that if they attempt or even LOOK like attempting a launch against us, it's no-holds barred.

Inform the world that the US has just become the Absolute Power, and someone just crossed the line. One move out of place, and you no longer exist.


192 posted on 06/24/2005 4:56:50 PM PDT by hoagy62 (Revolution is now the ONLY option.)
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To: TChad
Since this scenario is so likely, the federal government should begin dispersal now. Send most or at least some of the legislators home, and let them meet and vote via phones and the Internet.

I'd suggest an alternate scenario: make all the legislators stay within 1000 feet of each other at all times - no exceptions. ;)

193 posted on 06/24/2005 5:08:07 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: JockoManning

Thanks.

Sorry missed U, BTW.


194 posted on 06/24/2005 5:26:23 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

>I'd suggest an alternate scenario: make all the legislators stay within 1000 feet of each other at all times - no exceptions. ;)

Recruiting new legislators after every blast might become a bit problematic. Still, I suppose we should consider your suggestion if only for its entertainment value.

I'm actually serious about moving the legislators and the president out of D.C. We are going to have to do it eventually, might as well get started.


195 posted on 06/24/2005 5:58:27 PM PDT by TChad
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To: JAKraig
I think Hillary would survive a nuclear blast.

Only if she was wearing that crusty black pantsuit :lol:. That pantsuit and the cockroaches would be the only things left after a nuclear war...

LQ

196 posted on 06/24/2005 6:22:37 PM PDT by LizardQueen (The world is not out to get you, except in the sense that the world is out to get everyone.)
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To: ExSoldier

Thanks for posting this article. It*s very important that we all know what to do.


197 posted on 06/24/2005 6:33:54 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (I don*t know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future. His name is Jesus Christ....)
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To: Blzbba
Then, on the 6th day, every single test and data show that the nuke was a ChiComm device and was probably planted by ChiComm or ex-Soviet agents, who are laughing their asses off at America's attack on Iran.

On the 7th Day we nuke China, for having tricked us into killing a billion people, we should have no problem killing another billion people.

On the 8th Day we use the rest of our nuclear arsenal to blackmail and take control of the rest of the world, saying that we will nuke you if you do no follow our orders.

(sarcasm) Once you killed your first billion people, it becomes easier after that.

198 posted on 06/24/2005 7:30:50 PM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Jonathan

This is unfortunately, exactly what would happen.


199 posted on 06/24/2005 7:42:10 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: JAKraig

"I think Hillary would survive a nuclear blast.
What a shame!"

I think all the Democrats would. After all they say cockroaches can survive a nuclear attack :-)


200 posted on 06/24/2005 7:54:28 PM PDT by Codeograph
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