Does this mean that College Campii are now fertile hunting grounds?
Just asking.
Posted on 06/25/2005 8:33:25 AM PDT by herst1240
Some researchers call them the "Lost Boys." They are young males students you don't see on college campuses. The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) tracks the enrollment in all degree-granting institutions by sex. From 1992 to 2000, the ratio of enrolled males to females fell from 82 to 78 boys for every 100 girls. The NCES projects that in 2007 the ratio will be 75 males for every 100 females; in 2012, 74 per 100. In short, your son is statistically more likely than your daughter to work a blue collar job.
Thomas Mortenson, senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, argues that leaving a generation of boys behind hurts women as well. In a Business Week cover story, Mortenson observed, "My belief is that until women decide that the education of boys is a serious issue, nothing is going to happen."
He believes some women feel threatened by even admitting the problem because "it will take away from the progress of women...What everyone needs to realize is that if boys continue to slide, women will lose too."
That realization still seems distant among educational experts, who continue to downplay the NCES statistic as well as other data that indicate schools are hurting boys.
Jacqueline King -- author of the influential study "Gender Equity in Higher Education: Are Male Students at a Disadvantage?" -- is an example. She found that 68 percent of college enrollees from low-income families were female; only 31 percent were male.
Yet King insists there is no "boy crisis" in education despite the fact that data from Upward Bound and Talent Search show a comparable gender gap. (These college-preparation programs operate in high schools and received $312.6 million $144.9 million in tax funding, respectively, in 2005.) Of the students who receive benefits from those college-preparation programs, approximately 61 percent are girls; 39 percent are boys.
King's quoted explanation of the gender gaps: "women make up a disproportionate share of low-income students" who go on to college. Since low-income families presumably give birth to boys in the same ratio as the general population-- worldwide the ratio is between 103 to 107 boys for every 100 girls -- why are so few boys applying for assistance? A higher drop-out rate might be partly responsible, or boys may have no interest in higher education.
King comments on the latter explanation: "male low-income students have some ability in this strong economy to make a decent living with just a high-school diploma." In particular, she points to the construction industry.
King may be correct. The fact that low-income boys gravitate toward manual labor may account for some of the educational gender disparity. What is striking, however, is her apparent dismissal of that disparity as important. She seems to accept the reality that far fewer men than women enroll in college and that poor boys enter "the trades" while poor girls become professionals.
Imagine the gender ratio being reversed, with 78 girls for every 100 boys entering college. Imagine a generation of poor girls being relegated to low social status labor while tax funding assists poor boys. It is difficult to believe King would be similarly unconcerned.
Nevertheless, merely by acknowledging the situation, King shows far more balance than prominent voices, like the American Association of University Women, which still maintains there is a "girl crisis."
Fortunately, researchers like Judith Kleinfeld of the University of Alaska see that boys are in distress.
Kleinfeld -- author of "The Myth That Schools Shortchange Girls" -- states, "In my own college classes, I see a sea change in the behavior of young men. In the 1980s, the young men talked in my classes about the same as young women. I know because each semester I measured male and female talk. Now so many young men are disengaged that the more articulate, ambitious women dominate the classroom ....and my office hours."
Kleinfeld tried to trace the problem backward by interviewing high school students on plans for their future. She states, "The young women almost always have a clear, realistic plan---go to college, have a career, often directed toward an idealistic goals about improving the environment."
This clarity of vision and was generally absent in young men.
Among those who acknowledge the "boy crisis," explanations are vary and may all be true. Some point to the "feminization" of education over the last decade, which occurred largely in response to a perceived need to encourage girls. But, if boys and girls learn differently, then the changes may be placing boys at a disadvantage.
Others point to explicitly anti-male attitudes -- that is, political correctness -- within education. The website Illinois Loop lists "22 School Practices That May Harm Boys." One of them: "'Modern' textbooks and recommended literature often go to extremes to remove male role models as lead characters and examples."
Kleinfeld points speculatively to the impact of increased divorce and fatherless homes on the self-image of boys who lack a positive male role-model.
Approximately 40 percent of American children now live in homes without their own biological father.
Ultimately, explanations of and solutions to the "boy crisis" will come from exploring a combination of factors. My solution: privatize education and place it under the control of parents or adult students.
The first step to any solution, however, is to acknowledge there is a problem. We are not quite there yet.
My son is happy...
Does this mean that College Campii are now fertile hunting grounds?
Just asking.
Used to be known as the Mrs. degree, back in the day...
Given these statistics, I guess that would mean the pool of eligible men with equivalent education has been reduced. That will certainly be an interesting follow-up study a few years down the road.
Its not. A good plumber or trades person in their own business will do far better in life than a graduate with a BA working as an employee somewhere.
BINGO! Why spend four years being told what an evil waster of the world's humanity and how it is your fault if you can get a job as a plumber. No less sh!t, but better pay.
With a little savvy, you may end up making more than the degreed folks popping out of 16th grade.
"Just off the top of my head: The guys who need higher education; engineers, doctors and the like, will go on to get that education. "
But sadly, many of these teenage boys dont have their head screwed on straight enough to know that is where they should be going. So potential engineers miss the chance for a better career .. 31% advancement to college for low-income males is pathetic, and since 68% of women in the low-income category are doing it, it is clearly a MASSIVE GENDER GAP.
These rationalizations about men going into trades is pathetically misguided, since the data is crystal clear that
for most people a college degree IS worth it:
http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-3/value.htm
"For many young men, college and even late high school is an expensive and boring hinderance."
WHY WOULDNT YOU SAY THE SAME THING FOR WOMEN?
There are plenty of non-college jobs for women too,
costs are the same, etc.
The difference is that our school system is tuned more to
women then men.
" Why do you think illiterate illegals can make out so well;"
they dont expect as much and have no other choices.
" they don't need college to lay brick. Please excuse the long reply."
69% of low-income boys shouldnt think of bricklaying as their future. And to create a caste system where mostly women are educated is dangerous and destabilizing, to families and to society.
Undereducated males have higher rates of unemployment, low life satisfaction, and more likely to commit crimes, etc.
Here's the bottom line: The education system is failing boys, and the stats are starting to show it.
Personally, I'd seperate the boys and girls in classes, starting about 3rd grade - so the boys don't have to be concerned about being macho in front of girls - and they can also be focused on learning at their own pace.
Alas, the liberal educrat feminists are running the show, and are ruining a generation of boys.
And once the boy gets to that point:Hell, just acting like boys do will get them there (some schools even threaten parents who resist). So of course the girls will be more talkative and aggressive if the boys are on the soma.
-Eric
And unless citizens walk out of the government "education" system, it will only get worse.
"The BA is becoming the modern equivalent of finishing school for young ladies. Yet university administrators don't see the problem there."
Well, I'm a mom paying for my two daughters to attend college, and I don't see a problem there either. Eighteen is awfully young for a girl to be turned loose in the big bad world-- college offers a quasi-protected environment, a transitional path to full adulthood, time to mature into a young woman ready for what most women will devote their lives to, marriage and children. Plus, they'll hopefully have some marketable knowledge base when they graduate.
My oldest daughter is majoring in accounting and minoring in English literature, while my younger girl is undecided, but she might go into early childhood education. However much or little they work in their fields after they graduate, at least they'll have the ability to bring in a good salary if they ever need to. And, a good bit of what they're learning will help in their family lives even if they don't put it to use in the marketplace.
All in all, a college education is a good thing for girls. But, given high-paying jobs available in trades that appeal to boys, I can see why fewer of them choose it.
Somewhere along the line, they regressed back into [bogus] diploma mills, rather being an educational institution.
"Its not. A good plumber or trades person in their own business will do far better in life than a graduate with a BA working as an employee somewhere."
Ah, that myth again ... Bill Gates, college dropout, did well so dropping out is good for you. Wrong. Most folks with only high school diplomas will never have their own business, and in fact most business owners have college degrees.
Thinking you will do as well without a college degree is NOT what the law of averages tells you ...
On average, you'll get almost twice as much earnings if you graduate college:
http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-3/value.htm
"According to the Census Bureau, over an adult's working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate's degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor's degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002)."
Perhaps around the time when they realized the majority of their funding came from the Federal government (which has such a good record in demanding educational results for the $$$).
Yet women are still considered minorities in college applications .
I teach in a technology high school. My classes are typically all male or the majority of males. These are college prep classes. However, the females I get tend to go on to college and work harder than my guys. Why? Because sometimes they do well enough with the A+, CCNA, Oracle 9i and other certifications they get through my classes as they want to do. They COULD do better with a degree, but they still make more money than many do with college degrees. Others are in the engineering program and always go on to college, but the majority of these are also guys. There are 4 guys to one gal in this program. The gals make the best grades, though.
Having said that, we have classes that are also not college-prep, but articulate to the local community college and/or trade school (such as Nashville Auto-Diesel college). These kids graduate and make more money than I do teaching right out of high school. THey are AYES certified, A+ certified, etc... THere is a huge need for service-related jobs, whether auto-service, plumbing, electrical, contracting, networking, whatever.
The conundrum falls in the "you need to go to college" to make it mind-set. That's not true. For one, our state-based colleges/universities are following the lead of our public schools. Secondly, the job trend is service-based right now and will continue to be, especially with out-sourcing. This will change, I think, but not in the near future.
As for teachers telling the girls they are perfect, etc..etc...blah blah blah.... I don't find that true at all! However, I am in SW VA, a very conservative state and in a very conservative (albeit public) school system which still instills conservative values. I'm also in a technology high school which is very different from a regular high school. I'm sure we are a minority when it comes to public schools, and this is one reason I moved to this system.
Your statistics aren't delineating skills-based training versus a standard high school training. Those students who have certifications with skills training (plumbing, electrician, AYES, etc..etc..) will do better than most college graduates.
"In another couple of generations, American engineers will be as scarce as factories that produce television sets."
As an engineer I can definitively call that hogwash.
We will need more, not fewer engineers. Even now, the industry depends on importing brains because our educational system cant produce enough of the smart engineers that our industry wants to hire... outsourcing is partly a REACTION TO A LABOR SHORTAGE IN THE U.S.
"Engineering is a job that's very easily outsourced, is being outsourced, and will continue to be given current trends."
So will every single job you can think of, except maybe pizza delivery ... but that doesnt mean pizza delivery is your best bet.
The fact that we are in a global economy wrt technology and many fields does NOT mean those fields are bad, in fact the opposite. Many of the high-value-added parts of the technology business remain in the US. So do marketing, management and lots of technical jobs related to these businesses.
THE BEST JOB SECURITY IN THESE FIELDS IS BEING THE BEST AT WHAT YOU DO. Some cant handle the competition and want out, but a 'world class' IC analog designer can get a six figure salary easily, even if some analog design monkey work is being done elsewhere.
" Basically, if you're not going to be a doctor, lawyer, get an MBA, or a PhD, it doesn't make much sense to waste $100,000-$150,000 on a B.A."
More hogwash.
And about a BA:
1) A BA need not cost that much. Average cost is about $8600 a year
2) I am going to keep repeating this on this thread so the anti-College folks get through their brain the IMPORTANCE of education:
" According to the Census Bureau, over an adult's working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate's degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor's degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002)."
It's not just the public school system that churns out disillusined boys--although that's a big part of what's happening to young males in general. Why go to college when you can deliver pizzas, room with a bunch of scrungy guys and stay home watching mindless MTV and "Girls Gone Wild" (or worse) videos. Trampy females are quite easy to spot and score with now a days, too, so why bother to get an education, marry, have a family and become a responsible head of household.
My homeschooled son will be entering UCSD this fall to study Computer Engineering and Physics. My hubby and I are proud of him. We raised our son to be responsible, think clearly, respect women, and to avoid the extreme leftist culture for what it is--a BIG FAT FAILURE for decent, masculine men of the future.
Amen. I'm one of the few females at my school (see prior post), and the presence of many fellers is wonderful. These kids don't get many good male role-models at home or at school. They need all they can get, and I agree with the "STRONG" part of your statement. It's unbelievable how many single parent families with just mom at home there are. (I'm one, too...but I do have multiple good male role models as family members who have been wonderful with my now grown girls.)
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