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How to Think About the Crusades
Commentary ^ | July 2005 | Daniel Johnson

Posted on 07/01/2005 2:27:33 PM PDT by quidnunc

If there is one thing that everybody knows about the Crusades, it is that they were a Bad Thing. In the eyes even of most Christians, let alone others, the Crusades were a crime against humanity, one for which apologies are due, especially to Muslims. President Bush's early reference to the war on terror as a "crusade" was seen as a catastrophic blunder, justifying the accusations of Osama bin Laden and other Islamists who habitually refer to their enemies as "crusaders," with all the negative connotations the word now possesses.

Condemnation of the Crusades is based on the premise that they were a barbaric, unprovoked war of extermination and conquest, waged against a superior and incomparably more tolerant civilization — in brief, an archetype of Western imperialism. Today, when the very idea of a holy war is utterly alien to Western sensibilities, it is the United States that is identified by its critics, especially in Europe, with the religious fanaticism and military rapacity of the crusaders. The Nobel Prize-winning German novelist Guenter Grass, writing soon after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, decried the "religious fundamentalism," "moral decline," and "organized madness" of the United States, and proposed that Pope John Paul II, "who knows how lasting and devastating the disasters wrought by the mentality and actions of Christian crusaders have been," issue a formal apology to the Muslim world. Kingdom of Heaven, the Crusade movie by Ridley Scott released in the spring, reflects many of these same attitudes.

The facts about the Crusades are less familiar than the myths, and bear summarizing briefly. The First Crusade was launched in 1095 to recover Christian control over the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, the traditional location of the resurrection of Jesus, from the Saracens (a name deriving from the Greek term for Muslims and other Orientals). Against all odds, the Crusade succeeded, establishing several states, known as Outremer (literally, "overseas"), which endured for almost two centuries.

"The bloody and incessant battle to defend these isolated satellite settlements against a rising tide of Muslim aggression would change the course of history," writes Thomas Asbridge in The First Crusade: A New History (2004). Indeed, since the 18th century, historians have recognized no fewer than seven major Crusades to the Holy Land, the last in 1270. Each of them was a complex affair, sometimes involving several separate expeditions from different parts of Europe.

In 1204, the Fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople and established a Latin empire in the former Byzantine territories. This survived until 1261, when the Greeks reconquered their capital. With the fall of Acre in 1291, the Kingdom of Jerusalem retreated to Cyprus, protected by the military orders that had been formed to defend the Holy Land and that now began to build new bastions of Christendom in other Mediterranean islands, such as Rhodes and Malta. The crusading idea did not vanish, but none of the later expeditions that called themselves "Crusades" made any attempt to reach Palestine.

From a modern perspective, the charge sheet against the Crusades is formidable indeed. For Jews in the European Diaspora, the First Crusade was a catastrophe unprecedented since the destruction of the Temple. Three flourishing communities of the Rhineland — Worms, Mainz, and Cologne — were massacred by burghers and crusaders led by a German, Count Emicho of Leinigen, after the charismatic preacher Peter the Hermit had aroused popular hysteria. The frightful memory of these pogroms is preserved in three nearly contemporaneous Hebrew prose narratives, as well as in prayers and dirges that are recited to this day. Nor were these the only crusader persecutions of Jews. When Jerusalem fell in 1099, the Jews of the city were slaughtered along with the Muslims, and there were further assaults during the Second Crusade of 1147.

That Second Crusade, the brainchild of the great religious genius Bernard of Clairvaux, also began a process of widening of the definition of "crusade" to include campaigns against heretics and pagans in other parts of Europe. The Christian reconquest of the Iberian peninsula, which by 1257 had reduced the Moors to the tiny region of Granada, was given the status of a crusade. So, too, was the colonization of the Baltic Slavs, led by the Teutonic Knights, a monastic military order modeled on the Templars and Hospitalers of the Holy Land. Between 1209 and 1229, crusades were mounted against the Albigensian Cathars in southern France, the first of many heretics to be crushed by this means.

Jews, pagans, and heretics were not the only groups to suffer collateral damage from the Crusades. Eastern Orthodox Christians also harbor bitter memories, particularly of the Fourth Crusade, which was diverted from the reconquest of Jerusalem and instead sacked Constantinople in 1204. The Byzantine empire, already in decline, then disintegrated, paving the way for its permanent Islamization and enabling the Ottoman Turks to invade Europe in the 16th century.

The main contemporary charge against the Crusades, however, is that they did irreparable and lasting damage to relations between Muslims and Christians — even that they "explain" the present conflict between Islam and the West. Tens of thousands of Muslims were killed by the crusaders in the establishment of their states, and over the next two centuries there were crusader incursions throughout the Eastern Mediterranean, from Egypt to Mesopotamia.

For the Muslim world, the loss of Jerusalem, largely ignored at the time, came to seem in retrospect a traumatic (if also cathartic) experience. Though other invasions, such as those of the Mongols in the 13th and 14th centuries, were far more destructive of Islamic civilization, the Crusades remain more deeply lodged in Muslim collective memory, no doubt because they have been incorporated into a narrative that provides a rationale for the growing disparity in wealth and power between Islam and the West since the 17th century.

But what have Western historians had to say about the Crusades? In modern times, little good: the dominant narrative derives from the Enlightenment critique, itself a byproduct of the assault on religion in general and on the Catholic Church in particular. Thus, to Edward Gibbon, whose witty and vitriolic account still influences modem historians, the only merit of the Crusades was that they weakened the grip of European feudalism. For the rest, "these holy wars," Gibbon wrote,

appear to me to have checked rather than forwarded the maturity of Europe. The lives and labors of millions, which were buried in the East, would have been more profitably employed in the improvement of their native country: the accumulated stock of industry and wealth would have overflowed in navigation and trade; and the Latins would have been enriched by a pure and friendly correspondence with the climates of the East.

Some of the most influential modem historians of the Crusades have also seen them through the prism of later European history. A salient example is the late Sir Steven Runciman, whose elegant, three-volume History of the Crusades appeared during the 1950's, a period of decolonization in the Middle East as elsewhere.

Runciman empathized with the sophistication of Byzantine civilization, which he blamed the Latins for undermining, and he shared the post-imperial pessimism of the British upper class. He had spent World War II in Istanbul as a professor of Byzantine art, and decided to write about the Crusades — a subject he detested — in order to reeducate the British. When he declared that "seen in the perspective of history the whole crusading movement was a fiasco," he was reflecting the zeitgeist of the Suez campaign.

A different but no less negative case was that of Carl Erdmann, the brilliant German author of The Origin of the Idea of the Crusade. This classic work, which appeared in 1935, was a coded attack on Nazi Germany, and was understood as such by the intended targets: Erdmann found himself excluded from the German universities, was sent to the eastern front, and died there.

Erdmann argued that, in proclaiming the First Crusade, Pope Urban II was less interested in restoring the rights of Christians to make pilgrimages to the Holy Sepulcher than in unleashing "an ecclesiastical-knightly war upon heathens" in collaboration with Emperor Henry Iv. For Erdmann, this unholy alliance of pope and Caesar not only signified a betrayal of the gospels but was a portent of Hitler's war of racial extermination. His thesis has certainly impressed later generations; but as Hans Eberhard Mayer, an equally eminent German historian, has pointed out, that does not make it true. Mayer has shown that the march to Jerusalem was intended from the beginning to be a pilgrimage, albeit an armed one, and that this was how Urban II originally conceived it; it was only en route that "the conceptual change from armed pilgrim to soldier for the faith took place."

In any case, the hostile narrative of the Crusades bequeathed by historians from Gibbon to Runciman took deep root in the Western imagination, and has found a powerful echo in popular culture. Of course, the adventures of the crusaders themselves have been the stuff of literature from the troubador Blondel's search for the imprisoned Richard the Lionheart to Torquato Tasso's verse epic Gerusalemme Liberata to the romances of Walter Scott and beyond. Today, however, the historical reality of the Crusades has been appropriated by those whose quite specific aim is to discredit the war against Islamist terrorism.

One of these is Ridley Scott. In Kingdom of Heaven, the hero Balian of Ibelin (played by Orlando Bloom, rather out of his depth) is a French blacksmith who, by a series of ever more miraculous coincidences, becomes a great crusader lord. (The real Balian was an Italian nobleman born in the Holy Land.) Arriving in Outremer, he discovers on a hill in the middle of Jerusalem, supposed to be Calvary, that he has lost his faith. But in this "New World," he also finds himself at home among a liberal brotherhood of freethinkers who ignore their bigoted anti-Muslim bishop and instead keep the peace with Saladin. Balian is shown colonizing this Wild East frontier, digging a well and sharing his water with the Saracens. For this he is rewarded with the love of the fair Queen Sibylla, sister of King Baldwin IV and wife of King Guy de Lusignan. (In reality, she was happily married and had a child, the future Baldwin V.)

Then there is Saladin himself, the great Kurdish sultan and conqueror of Jerusalem who reunited a Muslim world long divided between rival caliphates, brilliantly and sympathetically portrayed in the movie by the Syrian actor Ghassan Massoud. Ridley Scott here draws on a long tradition, including Gotthold Ephraim Lessing's drama Nathan the Wise and Walter Scott's The Talisman, in which Saladin was depicted not only as a model of chivalry (as medieval poets and chroniclers had already done) but as a pioneer of religious toleration. The difference is that whereas such literary classics did not pretend to portray the historical Saladin, the makers of Kingdom of Heaven claim that "authenticity colored every facet of the production."

Needless to say, there is no evidence to support the film's view of Saladin. Indeed, for Islamists today who dream of Islam's ultimate victory over the Jews and Christians, Saladin is the very model of a warrior, not a prototype UN Secretary General. But the movie insists otherwise, contrasting its idealized image of Saladin with the crusaders, most of whom are bloodthirsty, drunken, scheming, venal, treacherous, and above all fanatical. (Guy de Lusignan and Raymond de Chatillon, in particular, are intended as caricatures of George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, while the unfortunately futile efforts of the peace party are led by Bill Clinton and Colin Powell disguised as Baldwin IV and TIberias.)

The climax of the film is the siege of Jerusalem. Balian is shown as a democratic hero, knighting citizens of all faiths and none, and fighting so well that Saladin agrees to a negotiated surrender. Balian tells the assembled people that the Holy Sepulcher does not matter; all he wants is to save their lives. The bishop cries "Blasphemy!" but is silenced, and Balian asks Saladin: "What is Jerusalem worth?" The sultan replies "nothing," and then adds, as an afterthought, "everything," thereby proving that at least somebody in this movie is prepared to sacrifice himself for a holy place. Whereupon a disillusioned Balian leaves Outremer to return to France, taking with him Sibylla, now sporting cropped hair.

In a kind of coda that takes place back at the French smithy, Richard the Lionheart suddenly turns up, on his way to recapture Jerusalem from Saladin. The king wants to take the renowned Balian with him, but a wiser and sadder Balian snubs him, rejecting the opportunity of new glory. By this time the film's ludicrous distortions have reached epic proportions of their own — here is the Lionheart, a genuine Western hero and a match for Saladin, relegated to a bit part while Orlando Bloom settles down to domestic bliss with his ex-queen — and mercifully it all comes to a close.

If works like Kingdom of Heaven transform the Crusades into a medieval allegory of today's global confrontation with radical Islam — a very Western allegory, in that it repeats every anti-Western cliché — it is at least heartening to report that in recent years a new school of historians has emerged, free of the resentments and prejudices of previous generations. Outstanding among them are Thomas Asbridge, from whom I have already quoted, and Jonathan Phillips, the author of The Fourth Crusade and the Sack of Constantinople (2004).

Their accounts have justly won a wide readership. Both works are dispassionate in tone, drawing on a wider range of sources than earlier and more partisan historians, and above all paying proper attention to the primarily spiritual forces that propelled these expeditions. Both were published after September 11, 2001; while they are solicitous of Muslim and Greek Orthodox sensibilities, neither finds it necessary to condemn or apologize for the Crusades.

Nor should they. No doubt, as both historians stipulate, the pursuit of land and plunder motivated many crusaders. But materialism, while it looms very large in the conventional narrative of the Crusades, was only a secondary factor; most crusaders sacrificed far more wealth than they gained. According to Asbridge, it cost the equivalent of five times a knight's annual income to pay for his passage and that of his entourage to Jerusalem.

Moreover, spiritual and material motives did not necessarily stand in mutual contradiction. When the crusaders besieged and took the great city of Antioch, and established a principality there on their way to Jerusalem, they believed they were merely restoring the oldest of the patriarchal sees, the site of Peter's first church, to Christendom. In contrast to the long-standing cliché about the crusaders' greed and avarice, or about the predominance among them of land-hungry younger sons, Asbridge argues convincingly that chivalry and religiosity outweighed the hope of material rewards; of those who returned from the First Crusade, "none came home laden down with riches."

The Pope also wanted to harness and channel the violence of the new feudal military class: "Let those who in the past have been accustomed to spread private war so vilely among the faithful advance against the infidels." Modern armies similarly absorb many who would otherwise populate the prisons. But to judge from their own chronicles, the crusaders were hardly ignoble in character, or incapable of impartiality. Archbishop William of Tyre's A History of Deeds Done Beyond the Sea, Geoffrey de Villehardouin's account of the Fourth Crusade, and Jean de Joinville's Life of St. Louis are examples of first-hand accounts by important dramatis personae that are invaluable to historians and that still read well today.

The Crusades played a major role in the evolution of military strategy, technology, and architecture. [1] They were also a landmark in the mundane business of feeding unprecedented numbers of troops. On the First Crusade, for much of the time, crusaders starved. As the historian Karl Leyser has written, "At critical moments they did not eat in order to fight, but fought in order to eat." The conquest of Antioch, the key to Jerusalem, was made possible only once they had secured supplies from Italian ships by fortifying the port.

Nor is it true that the numbers of crusaders who settled in Outremer were sufficiently large as to invoke the concept of mass colonization. Perhaps a half-million Europeans participated in the seven Crusades over two centuries, during which time the population of Europe increased by almost 50 percent, from 48 million in 1100 to 69 million in 1250. Battles and sieges during the Crusades did tend to be bloodier than back home in Europe. Even so, however, the human cost of these relatively brief campaigns, punctuated by long periods of peace, must have been negligible as compared with, say, the annihilation of Baghdad by Hulagu's Mongol horde in 1258, which wiped out a city of a half-million and ended the Abbasid Caliphate, or even as compared with the sack of Jerusalem in 1244 by Turkomans fleeing from the Mongols.

The Crusades marked the moment when the West achieved political, economic, aesthetic, and intellectual take-off. Within decades, Europe had given birth to the rule of law and the modem state, free trade and Magna Carta, the Gothic cathedral and the scholastic university, Aquinas and Dante, a new spirituality and an early renaissance. Individualism, rationalism, empiricism, mysticism: all owe a debt to the revolution unleashed by the Crusades. In economic terms alone, the existence of Outremer brought prosperity to Palestine and Syria such as they had not seen since Roman times — prosperity not only for Christians but for Jews and also for Muslims, as the later decline of these provinces under Turkish rule would sadly demonstrate.

These and other considerations must go into the writing of fair-minded histories of the Crusades, giving due weight to the spiritual energies that made them possible, to the brutality they visited upon Jews and others, and to their consequences, beneficial and otherwise. But it is no less essential to place them within their larger historical context. In that larger perspective, they take their place as a short-lived counteroffensive against another, much lengthier, and much more relentless holy war — namely, the Muslim jihad against Christendom. For the fact is that whereas the Crusades were a temporary phenomenon that flourished for some two centuries and had quite limited purposes, jihad is and has been a permanent and ubiquitous fact of Islamic life.

Jihad evolved into a doctrine of Islamic jurisprudence as a byproduct of the great Arab expansion after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, thus predating the First Crusade by more than four centuries. Muslim scholars were well aware of the uniqueness of this institution. Ibn Khaldun, the greatest of all Islamic historians and a key witness from the period just after the Crusades, compares Islam with Christianity and Judaism in this respect:

In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or force… . The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty to them, save only for purposes of defense. [2]

Many western scholars have utterly failed to grasp the significance of this distinction. They are convinced that Islam was "tolerant, religiously quasi-indifferent," as the preeminent French historian Fernand Braudel declared, whereas Christianity was "brutal, violent, relentless, often under the sign of absolute intolerance." In point of fact, Muslim rulers varied greatly in their treatment of their Christian and Jewish subjects, who were permitted to exist under Islamic law only in the inferior legal status of dhimmi, suffering numerous penalties and often falling victim to persecutions that were no less brutal, violent, and relentless than those of Christian Europe. In the meantime, the larger Islamic jihad against Christendom went on unabated.

The spectacular Arab conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries had brought under the Crescent the Greco-Roman heartlands of Christianity along the southern coast of the Mediterranean, with many incursions northward as well. Some territory was eventually recovered from the Saracens between the 10th and 12th centuries, including much of Spain, southern France, Italy, Sicily, and Cyprus. But Roman Africa and the Hellenic Levant were lost forever, while the Byzantines lost Anatolia to the Turks after their decisive defeat at Manzikert in 1071.

So the Crusades took place against a background of Muslim conquest, of which the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem were deliberately triumphal symbols. Compared with the three phases of jihad against Christendom — Arab, Tartar, and Turkish — lasting over a millennium and stretching across three continents, the seven Frankish expeditions to Palestine can be seen in proportion: a "limited and belated response," as Bernard Lewis puts it, a brief if important interlude in the long history of jihad. In this context, it is not so surprising that at the time, as Lewis reminds us, the Muslims "knew little and cared less" about the crusaders. The turning point in relations between Islam and the West came only much later, at the end of the 17th century, when the long Turkish retreat, beginning with the siege of Vienna, finally forced the Ottoman Sultans to come to terms.

The Crusades were also a belated response to specific humiliations, stretching back over centuries. These included the partial destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher by the Caliph Hakim in 1009. The sermon preached by Urban IT at the Council of Clermont in 1095, which electrified Latin Christendom, justified its call to arms against the Saracens by atrocities against Christian pilgrims that were largely specious. But Christians in general had cause to feel threatened: Saracen pirates had pillaged Rome itself in 845, and their base in Sicily had only been recaptured four years before the First Crusade. Likewise, the Fourth Crusade turned on the Greeks, who in the Third Crusade had allied themselves with Saladin, as an explosion of vengeance by Venetians and other Latins. The sack of Constantinople cannot be justified, but it was not unprovoked.

Did the Crusades nevertheless poison relations between Islam and the West? It is true that Urban dehumanized Muslims as "a race utterly alien to God." But what proved more significant in the long term was that the Crusades, having established trading and pilgrim routes to Outremer, obliged the Franks to acquaint themselves with Islamic culture, just as the Normans did in Saracen Sicily and the Spanish and Portuguese in Moorish Iberia. Emperor Frederick II, whose native milieu had been marked by the Muslim presence, incurred the displeasure of the pious by cultivating Arab architecture, science, and philosophy; when in 1228 he finally obeyed the papal command to recover Jerusalem, he succeeded in doing so by negotiation, without a drop of blood being spilled. In the Middle East, co-existence between crusader and Saracen remained possible at least until the external threat of Mongol conquest radicalized Islam and brought about the rise of the Mameluke Turks, who systematically exterminated the Templars and Hospitalers on whom Outremer depended.

This legacy was not lost when the crusader states were snuffed out. The literature of medieval Europe acknowledges Muslim heroes like Saladin, and thinkers like Averroes and Avicenna, on equal terms with Christians; for Dante, Saracens, too, belong to the humana civilitas. In the great humanist Nicholas of Cusa, undoubtedly influenced by the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453, we encounter an attempt to interpret the Qur'an as a sacred text worthy of serious consideration. In later centuries, the intense and ongoing interest of Westerners in Islamic culture and religion is too well known to need repeating.

Ever since al Qaeda declared war on the West, the Crusades have been forced back into our consciousness as part of a longer historical narrative weighted heavily in favor of Islam. The radical Islamist invocation of the Crusades serves two purposes: to rally Muslims to the cause of jihad against Judeo-Christian civilization, and to undermine the legitimacy of resistance to it. Islamists know exactly how to exploit post-imperial, post-Christian guilt — the West's Achilles' heel. By placing the Crusades at the heart of the relationship between Islam and the West, they intend their war of terror to be seen by both sides as a justifiable response to Western aggression. In this they have not been disappointed, as we can witness all around us.

According to Islamist historiography, for example, the modem state of Israel is merely a reincarnation of the medieval Kingdom of Jerusalem, and Zionism the modem manifestation of the same imperialistic impulse as that which drove the Crusades. The fact that it took a divided Islam two centuries in order to defeat and expel the crusaders from the Levant provides a pattern for the present situation. True, Western "imperialism" has established itself not only in Israel but, most recently, in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Islamists are enjoined by the example of their forebears who fought the crusaders to be patient and cunning, to unite against the common foe, and to be utterly ruthless.

When Westerners today condemn the Crusades, they send a coded message both to Israel and to the Muslim world. The message says that just as these Westerners, and especially the Christians among them, are not ready to defend their own ancestors, so they are unprepared to lift a finger to defend the Jewish state, still less to defend the invasion and occupation of Iraq. European Christians, certainly, are indeed more likely to be found siding with Muslims, whether Palestinians or Iraqis, than with Sharon or Bush. So are European elites in general, not to speak of many American academics, intellectuals, and spokesmen for "mainline" churches. The reasons in all cases are various, but one large cluster of them, if traced back far enough, is connected with a false, partisan, and self-hating interpretation of the Crusades.

An obscure branch of medieval history may not sound like promising or even especially important territory for public debate. But unless and until the Crusades are reclaimed by scholarship, and interpreted objectively for popular consumption, there is a real danger that the al-Qaeda school of historiography (as we may call it) will triumph. In the reflexively anti-Israel and anti-American attitudes of many Europeans, in mindless celebrations of a movie like Kingdom of Heaven — "courageously relevant," says the Seattle Intelligencer; "full of astonishments, not the least of which are its ideas," chimes in the Washington Post — it already has.

The Crusades are an organic part of Western history. They are also a casus belli, and will remain so for as long as it suits the Islamists. On the cultural front of that war, one side has gone disastrously far in the direction of unilateral disarmament.

[1] See Hugh Kennedy, Crusader Castles (1994), a much more scholarly work than the 1909 dissertation under the same tide by T.E. Lawrence (republished in 1988). But at least that dissertation was an honest account of things seen, unlike the claims made later by the charlatan known as Lawrence of Arabia.

[2] The Muqaddimah: An Introduction to History, translated by Franz Rosenthal, edited and abridged by N.]. Dawood (1967).


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: christians; churchhistory; crusades; thecrusades
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Daniel Johnson, formerly a senior editor and columnist for the London Times and Daily Telegraph, is now a columnist for the New York Sun.
1 posted on 07/01/2005 2:27:33 PM PDT by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
"How to Think About the Crusades"

Preaching the Gospel

With Steel

2 posted on 07/01/2005 2:32:45 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: quidnunc
"...it is that they were a Bad Thing"

You lost me there. I'm glad that was at the beginning before I read all that tripe.

3 posted on 07/01/2005 2:36:20 PM PDT by Slump Tester (John Kerry - When even your best still isn't good enough)
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To: muir_redwoods

Nice Tagline. Is it OK if I use it?


4 posted on 07/01/2005 2:40:01 PM PDT by Slump Tester ( What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: quidnunc

Crusade - Jihad. Jihad - Crusade. What came first Jihad or Crusade? I guess when you attack people they will usually attack you back.


5 posted on 07/01/2005 2:40:30 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: quidnunc

Alas, the crusaders had the will, but we have the way.


6 posted on 07/01/2005 2:43:46 PM PDT by umgud (Comment removed by poster before moderator could get to it)
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To: Slump Tester
Slump Tester wrote: ("...it is that they were a Bad Thing") You lost me there. I'm glad that was at the beginning before I read all that tripe.

SIGH…

READ THE ARTICLE – ALL OF IT – BEFORE YOU COMMENT AND MAKE DAMFOOLS OF YOURSELVES!

7 posted on 07/01/2005 2:45:52 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Slump Tester
You lost me there. I'm glad that was at the beginning before I read all that tripe.

You shouldn't have stopped, because most of the rest of the piece is counterpoint.

8 posted on 07/01/2005 2:48:28 PM PDT by kezekiel
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To: Slump Tester

Read on, friend.


9 posted on 07/01/2005 2:49:47 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Murder and weather are our only news)
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To: Slump Tester
"Nice Tagline. Is it OK if I use it?"

Absolutely, I'd be honored, spread the word.

10 posted on 07/01/2005 2:50:13 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: muir_redwoods
Preaching the Gospel With Steel

I have read a fiery gospel

Writ in burnished rows of steel

As ye deal with my contemners

So with you my grace shall deal.

(Battle Hymn of the Republic, Third stanza)
11 posted on 07/01/2005 2:50:42 PM PDT by The Grammarian (Postmillenialist Methodist)
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To: quidnunc
Since so many today are keen on thinking there is no real Holy Grail, that The DaVinci Code is fact, and that the Ark of the Covenant is just an "idea", I propose the Crusades were not military conquests, but only great leaps forward in religion and our concept of God.
12 posted on 07/01/2005 2:51:21 PM PDT by SaveTheChief (There are 10 types of people -- those who understand binary, and those who don't.)
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To: Slump Tester

The best tagline I've seen at FR is "All I need to know about Islam I learned on 9-11".


13 posted on 07/01/2005 2:51:34 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte
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To: quidnunc
In the eyes even of most Christians, let alone others, the Crusades were a crime against humanity, one for which apologies are due, especially to Muslims

You lost me right there, pilgrim.

Not in the eyes of any people, generally educated, that I have ever met in my life, 90% of whom were Christians.
I had to stop reading right there.

14 posted on 07/01/2005 2:52:29 PM PDT by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: quidnunc

Contrary to the rantings of leftists, it is primarily the Crusades, and not modern capitalism and media portrayals of barely clothed women, that is responsible for the entrenched view across Arab/Islamic lands, that the Christian/Western world is the enemy.


15 posted on 07/01/2005 2:55:27 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: muir_redwoods
Forgot about the other part of that stanza...Picking up where I left off:

May the Hero born of Woman crush the Serpent with his heel

While God is marching on!

Chorus


16 posted on 07/01/2005 2:56:22 PM PDT by The Grammarian (Postmillenialist Methodist)
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To: quidnunc

Good post!


17 posted on 07/01/2005 2:58:00 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: quidnunc
Why is it that the reader can make a dammfool of himself, but the writer is exempt?

Dammfool statments to make in the very first paragraph.

Counterpoint - my elbow!

18 posted on 07/01/2005 2:58:13 PM PDT by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: quidnunc

Background information:

The Battle of Tours, 732 AD.

"Although it took another two generations for the Franks to drive all the Arab garrisons out of what is now France and across the Pyrenees, Charles Martel's halt of the invasion of French soil turned the tide of Islamic advance, and the unification of the Frankish kingdom under Charles Martel, his son Pepin the Short, and his grandson Charlemagne prevented the Umayyad kingdom from expanding over the Pyrenees."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel


19 posted on 07/01/2005 2:58:31 PM PDT by OK
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To: quidnunc

Where's the history of the brutal acts of the Muslims that helped bring on the crusades. They were evil and cruel, 'convert or die'. Not much different than today.


20 posted on 07/01/2005 3:00:25 PM PDT by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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To: Americanexpat
From the article:

"For Jews in the European Diaspora, the First Crusade was a catastrophe unprecedented since the destruction of the Temple. Three flourishing communities of the Rhineland — Worms, Mainz, and Cologne — were massacred by burghers and crusaders led by a German, Count Emicho of Leinigen, after the charismatic preacher Peter the Hermit had aroused popular hysteria. The frightful memory of these pogroms is preserved in three nearly contemporaneous Hebrew prose narratives, as well as in prayers and dirges that are recited to this day. Nor were these the only crusader persecutions of Jews. When Jerusalem fell in 1099, the Jews of the city were slaughtered along with the Muslims, and there were further assaults during the Second Crusade of 1147."

21 posted on 07/01/2005 3:04:16 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: quidnunc

Matthew.


22 posted on 07/01/2005 3:07:42 PM PDT by Jaded (Hell sometimes has fluorescent lighting and a trumpet.)
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To: quidnunc
"But Roman Africa and the Hellenic Levant were lost [to Islam] forever ..."

"Forever" is a long time. Like the soothsayer who warned Julius Caesar that "although the Ides of March have come, they have not yet passed" I should point out that we have not reached the end of forever yet.

23 posted on 07/01/2005 3:11:34 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Publius6961
Publius6961 wrote: Why is it that the reader can make a dammfool of himself, but the writer is exempt? Dammfool statments to make in the very first paragraph. Counterpoint - my elbow!

It always amazes me that so many who have no scholarship themselves have the gall to sniffily carp that bona fide scholars are doing it all wrong.

24 posted on 07/01/2005 3:11:42 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Slump Tester

ping


25 posted on 07/01/2005 3:25:29 PM PDT by paudio (Four More Years..... Let's Use Them Wisely...)
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To: Americanexpat

I guess Western Europe should have done the politically correct thing back then and allow Islam to conquer the remaining third of Christendom. That way Christianity would now be extinct, or at best a minority cult, and we wouldn't have all these cultural clashes to worry about today.


26 posted on 07/01/2005 3:26:37 PM PDT by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Washington State--Land of Court-approved Voting Fraud.)
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To: quidnunc

Excellent piece.


27 posted on 07/01/2005 3:32:57 PM PDT by marron
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To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
If the historical revisionist Marxists, Pagans and Muslims
get there way then reconquista of Europe and conquest of the west is achievable in this decade..

Oil fuels the new conquerers and their enablers and apologists.

Those who would sell us out to their new world order need the
Muslim terrorists as much as they need a morally weakened west
to bring their plans to fruition.

A job for CAIR, Hollywood, our politicans in their pockets and the Marxists.. The many headed beast.

28 posted on 07/01/2005 3:40:27 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Just trying to get in touch with my inner tagline..got feelers out but not much luck so far)
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To: quidnunc

Jews were also exterminated during the Crusades. There was another crusade before and during WWII, and too many people are ready for yet another one.


29 posted on 07/01/2005 3:41:23 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
I am not condoning the slaughter of innocent Jews during the crusades by any means. Only the hypocrisy of Muslims who act like they were attack without reason.
30 posted on 07/01/2005 3:45:47 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington

Many believe that!
Except for the Jews-I don't feel bad about the Crusades at all! If they had finished the Muslims off- look how much better THE WORLD would be today!
Instead of citing the Crusades as the reason for Islamic terrorism you'd THINK that they would have learned in all these years that you SHOULDN'T TRY YOUR WORLD DOMINATION INSANITY again! Wouldn't you?
If they didn't like the first Crusades- do they think they'll like the one they're gonna start with their jihad now?

I really believe that the 'we love death' assertation, and the penchant for suicide reveals a self-destructive component to Islam that goes back to the Crusades. Call it 'Survivor Syndrome'. They know their thinking and the time for their cult is past- Islam should have died in the dark ages in which it was born. It is out of place here and now- and so they revel in death and provoke the world to retaliate against them once more.


31 posted on 07/01/2005 3:50:28 PM PDT by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: familyop

Let us learn from the Crusades,then.
If the Jews were considered enemies of Christianity and civilization then- they ARE NOT NOW.
MUSLIMS remain so.

Times have changed, methods for fighting our enemies have changed, but it seems the enemy has not changed at all.


32 posted on 07/01/2005 3:55:54 PM PDT by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Not all the crusades were directed at the ME, and the Mongols and Columbus had a far bigger effect on Islam than the crusades ever dreamed of. If the Moslems are that concerned about the crusades, then they are hopelessly miseducated of history and misdirected.


33 posted on 07/01/2005 3:58:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: Americanexpat
Crusade - Jihad. Jihad - Crusade. What came first Jihad or Crusade? I guess when you attack people they will usually attack you back.


this jihad will make this the FINAL crusade....

34 posted on 07/01/2005 3:58:01 PM PDT by Nat Turner (TRY THIS)
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To: muir_redwoods
Preaching the Gospel

With Steel

Why waste good steel? Let the hellfire begin early!


35 posted on 07/01/2005 4:00:04 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: muir_redwoods
Preaching the Gospel With Steel

And this is a Good Thing, right, 'cause we wouldn't want to be like those eeeeevil Mooslimes with their "convert-or-die" chopping off of heads stuff, right?

/mocking_hyprocrisy

36 posted on 07/01/2005 4:03:18 PM PDT by Kretek (WPPFF)
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To: joesnuffy

Stated chillingly but accurately, Snuff. The only reason why the Lefties are so concerned about the Muslims, are so concerned that their precious Koran might be mistreated, is that they regard the Islamofascists as allies in their cause to overthrown America.


37 posted on 07/01/2005 4:07:09 PM PDT by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Washington State--Land of Court-approved Voting Fraud.)
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To: quidnunc

Bump for later reading.


38 posted on 07/01/2005 4:09:06 PM PDT by A2J (Oh, I wish I was in Dixie...)
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To: quidnunc

Pure trash.


39 posted on 07/01/2005 4:23:42 PM PDT by Windsong (FighterPilot)
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To: quidnunc

To put the origin of the cruscades in historical perspective they are what would be termed today a "war of religious liberation". The fanatical Muslims spread rapidy
from Arabia, across northern Africa (which in the 7th century was largely Christian), into Spain and even into France. Christians saw themselves threatened by forced conversion, extinction, or the status of tributory serfs. It was in 732 that Charles Martel defeated their advance at Tours. It was later that a French pope (Urban II) proclaimed the First Cruscade in France in 1095. It was only after Spain was united under Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castille that the "reconquista" began in 1492 which finally eventuated in the liberation of the Spanish Christians from Muslim domination. Yes, as in any great historical movements there various other motives - commercial, political, etc. But it cannot be gainsaid that
without the crusades we possibly would be speaking Arabic today. It's an oversimplification but I'd say this is more bashing of Western civilization by not remembering the very real threat that existed --- and guess what? IT'S BACK!!


40 posted on 07/01/2005 5:29:54 PM PDT by T.L.Sink (stopew)
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To: quidnunc

OK - I was wrong to call it tripe. I quit reading when I got to the part about owing muslims an apology.


41 posted on 07/01/2005 5:37:01 PM PDT by Slump Tester ( What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: Kretek
Who said anything about converting them?

It's pretty simple really. They start it, we finish it. (post 35 is the easiest solution)

Then we have their undivided attention.

42 posted on 07/01/2005 5:41:25 PM PDT by Slump Tester ( What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: Windsong
Windsong wrote: Pure trash.

In what respect(s) is the article trash?

43 posted on 07/01/2005 5:42:55 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: quidnunc

DAM is spelled DAMN. Perhaps just a foolish typo.


44 posted on 07/01/2005 5:49:18 PM PDT by T.L.Sink (stopew)
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To: T.L.Sink
T.L.Sink wrote:

DAM is spelled DAMN. Perhaps just a foolish typo.

Nope, it's the way Paul Greenberg writes it in is columns and if it's good enough for Paul Greenberg then it's good enough for Free Republic.

45 posted on 07/01/2005 6:21:19 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: quidnunc

Paul Greenberg may write it "in IS columns" but incorrect spelling is not good enough. If an expert like Wm. Safire told me it was correct I'd believe it -- but who the hell is Greenberg? P.S. Does Greenberg also say it's correct to spell "his" as "is" ? Perhaps not another foolish typo but a proper spelling of which I'm not aware.


46 posted on 07/01/2005 6:38:03 PM PDT by T.L.Sink (stopew)
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To: T.L.Sink
A little full of yourself tonight, aren't you Bubba?

Here's the chorus of a little song that comes to mind.

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

PS: Paul Greenberg is a Pulitzer Prize winner.

47 posted on 07/01/2005 6:45:20 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: All

The only thing I need to know about the crusades...is they failed and were not visionary enough to annhilate islam totally.

Eliminating islam then would have saved thier progeny much pain and suffering.

I just hope we don't keep making the same mistake by ignoring the plain and blatant fact that terror is synonymous with islam.


48 posted on 07/01/2005 6:48:25 PM PDT by Stopislamnow (Three co-equal branches? Not anymore. Sig heil mein black robed tyrant!)
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To: Windsong

To those of you who believe that this piece is anti-crusade, go back and read the parts you didn't bother to. The second half talks about how the crusades were a justified response to Muslim conquest.


49 posted on 07/01/2005 6:55:52 PM PDT by The_Crunch
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To: quidnunc

I was over it before you launched you overly-defensive comments. William Duranty won the Pulitzer prize too, but at least he could spell " Stalin". By the way, you demonstrate your insecurity by making an issue out of nothing but didn't respond to my serious comments on your post. But perhaps I'm foolish to expect anything of substance from somone who'd prefer to defend an incorrect spelling and make that the issue. I think I know what you're full of, Bubba.


50 posted on 07/01/2005 6:59:45 PM PDT by T.L.Sink (stopew)
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